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Did Jesus suffer God's wrath instead of us?

JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Brightfame52 said:
Really? That is powerful to say
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It is both powerful and sad, I agree. But the person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

God's words are our (those of us who are saved) doctrine. While interpretations vary we do not add to those words. We do not exchange even one of the words God have us for the volumes of diverse things men say is taught by God.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brightfame52 said:
No such thing as the means of reconciliation, Christ death actually reconciled sinners He died for unto God. Rom 5:10
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Pure fiction, as 1 John 2:2 clearly says Christ became the means of reconciliation.

And Romans 5:10 refers to those living at the time of the writing who had been reconciled, it does not support the fiction that future believers were reconciled. Rather, God's word says God is reconciling humanity, which is the actual message of God, not the invention of prideful speculation lacking any foundation on God's word.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
It is both powerful and sad, I agree. But the person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

God's words are our (those of us who are saved) doctrine. While interpretations vary we do not add to those words. We do not exchange even one of the words God have us for the volumes of diverse things men say is taught by God.
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JonC said:
That is a summary. Yes.

I don't kniw why you ask "that's it?" when that is what you said you do not comprehend.
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I don't see where you understand scripture
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Pure fiction, as 1 John 2:2 clearly says Christ became the means of reconciliation.

And Romans 5:10 refers to those living at the time of the writing who had been reconciled, it does not support the fiction that future believers were reconciled. Rather, God's word says God is reconciling humanity, which is the actual message of God, not the invention of prideful speculation lacking any foundation on God's word.
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Again no such thing as a means of reconciliation, them Christ died for were reconciled to God Rom 5:10
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Brightfame52 said:
I don't see where you understand scripture
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I would not expect you to.

You have exchanged God's Word (the "words that come from God", "what is written") for what a sect of men have told you the Bible means (their understanding of what it teaches).

If I were speaking to a Jehovah Witness, I would not expect them to believe I understood Scripture either. Like you, they have a subjective standard. And, like you, to them the words of God is foolishness. They depend on what men tell them those words mean.

So, yes, I absolutely agree that you do not see understanding in my referencing God's actual words.

But it is not my intention to prove that I understand anything. My intention is to simopy point one who professes to a Christian away from man's ideas about what the Bible teaches and to "every word that comes forth from God".
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
I would not expect you to.

You have exchanged God's Word (the "words that come from God", "what is written") for what a sect of men have told you the Bible means (their understanding of what it teaches).

If I were speaking to a Jehovah Witness, I would not expect them to believe I understood Scripture either. Like you, they have a subjective standard. And, like you, to them the words of God is foolishness. They depend on what men tell them those words mean.

So, yes, I absolutely agree that you do not see understanding in my referencing God's actual words.

But it is not my intention to prove that I understand anything. My intention is to simopy point one who professes to a Christian away from man's ideas about what the Bible teaches and to "every word that comes forth from God".
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How can you be so sure that we misunderstanding what the bible teaches and yet you understand it correctly? You have insight and understanding exceeding all Reformers and nearly all Baptist scholars and pastors and teachers?
 
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