ROFL, @Silverhair has ZILCH interest in harmonizing scripture, he's on a mission to stamp out 'Calvinism' and somehow thinks his railing claptrap is going to get the job done.
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The Number Of God’s Elect
- Thread starter Tea
- Start date
ROFL, @Silverhair has ZILCH interest in harmonizing scripture, he's on a mission to stamp out 'Calvinism' and somehow thinks his railing claptrap is going to get the job done.
It's easy to tell when someone is effectively driving the hammer home, K gets involved.
Lol, so why are you getting involved? Because 'I drove the hammer home'?
LOL, no I just thought you would appreciate a few words from ol' Charlie.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
God know who will freely trust in Him is not the same as your idea that He has determined who will be able to trust in Him.
The calvinist view that God picks so many and no more means that He also reprobates all the others. They are condemned through no fault of their own but just because God did not pick them.
That is the difference between man being responsible for rejecting Him and God being responsible for man rejecting Him.
None of the verse even come close to supporting your unconditiuonal election.
I am not saying Clement did not speak for himself I am saying what he said does not help your case. It does not support your theory that God picked out a select group for salvation rather it just tells us that God knows all that will be saved through faith in Him.
You said that the "all" equaled the elect. Care to show how that works out from the context?
Synergism would require that the person works with God to save himself but we do not see that in scripture. What we do see is man responds to God with faith and as you know faith is not a work so no synergism there Tea.
Actually I do not think you do understand the DoG/TULIP as well as you think you do. If you did then you would see what that flawed theory does to the character of God.
Odd you would say that when you have
Rom 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes,
Joh 20:31 But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
We even have Jesus tell us
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
You must this that the Holy Spirit was just wasting His time when He convicts the world. Ans why spread the gospel if none could believe it?
Actually according to the C/R view if you are not part of the select group it has been determined that you will reject God. There is no free will in the C/R view.
The C/R view shows that all who reject God do so because God has determined that they do so. Or do you think ma can overrule the determinations of God?
How can it be. Remember your C/R theory touts divine determinism. He has to determine all things not just some things or He is not sovereign. That not a biblical view but it is calvinism.
Those not chosen have no option but to reject God as He has determined they do. The question is since they are doing just as God determined they do then why is He judging them for doing as He determined?
Since God desires that all come to repentance then why does He not instill that desire in all? He could have intervened in all their lives so why did He condemn them from the start? You have some serious logical problems in your theory.
But the president is not God. God could have force all people to come to Him just as you say He forced the C/R's to come to Him. Actually just deciding to save a few when He could have saved all makes your version God seem rather cruel. Why condemn people to an eternity in hell when they had not even sinned.
Of course we see things differently. I have looked at the DoG/TULIP and see it for what it is. You look at it and see it for what you would like it to be.
Those that think the DoG/TULIP is correct also think that they are part of the "elect". The reality is that there is no why that they can know if they are or are not. They just have to hope. Even their faith is not their own as according to C/R it had to be given to them.
How could one know that they are regenerate? The only true test is to persevere to the end in saving faith. If one fails to persevere, that person only reveals that while they may have thought their faith was real, it was only a case of self deception, or even worse, divine deception which Calvin called “evanescent grace”.
So we see that assurance is not possible for those of the C/R view.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
KY you never fail to make me laugh.
I do not have to stamp out Calvinism I just have to keep pointing out it's errors.
It will do it to itself as people come to see it for what it really is. A false theology based on pagan philosophy from the 4th century.
OH NO!
Romans Chapter 9
| ...is there unrighteousness with God?... |
Your CDS infected brains just can't accept this, you must deny the truth of it:
Romans Chapter 9
| ...he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth.... |
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
KY you are letting your obsession cloud your mind.
What does your silly post have to do with what I had written? Here is the full text which just shows how desperate you are. You do not have a good answer do you?
"The calvinist view that God picks so many and no more means that He also reprobates all the others. They are condemned through no fault of their own but just because God did not pick them.
That is the difference between man being responsible for rejecting Him and God being responsible for man rejecting Him."
Men perish because they love sin and hate the true God. Do not blame God for mans sin and rebellion. Hey Sh, how much error did you find in the Joel Beeke messages???
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Z it is the determinism of calvinism that lays that charge on God.
How many times has a calvinist said that all the elect were chosen B4 creation?
The calvinist view that God picks so many and no more means that He also reprobates all the others. They are condemned through no fault of their own but just because God did not pick them. That is simple logic Z.
I do not blame God for man's sins, your calvinism does that Z.
Any messages that support Beeke's false calvinist views would be error as those views and the bible can not be reconciled.
Tea
Active Member
Yes, I suppose that would be very much like how some on here jump through hoops in claiming that Acts 13:48 doesn’t really say “appointed.”
The Christian attitude should be to hasten for the day of Christ’s return, but that in no way does that imply that time has to be flexible. Otherwise, the Father would not know the day and the hour, as He has promised.
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Show where at the white throne judgment unconditional election is blamed for why a sinner did not repent.
As often as the read and understand theoir bibles in Eph1, 2 tim 1:9 ,or Rom8& 9
Yes, a great number , that cannot be diminished or increased. It is perfect Because God is perfect in His knowledge and eternal purpose. He cannot save one more person, or one less person that he has elected!
Those who love and remain in their sin are reprobated ,yes for sure, to the praise of His glorious justice
They are condemned first By Adam's sin, then doubly condemned by a lifetime of sin and rebellion against God. They are totally at fault, and responsable to repent and believe the gospel Command.
No, as free moral agents who are bound by sin ,they are commanded to repent and believe, but they have no desire to do that. Do not blame God for their sin. As free moral agents they choose sin, and to create their own god, rather than trust and obey, the true and living God.
I offer simple bible truth that you shield yourself from and remain in rebellion to revealed truth.
Not,quite the contrary,Calvinism declares the truth that all died Spiritually In Adam,,and are totally depraved. Your ignorance of these truths keeps you in rebellion to the scripture, that you profess that you believe???...So you are an unbelieving believer
And you cannot even find one in six messages?? let's be honest, you do not even listen, because you prefer to remain ignorant of Divine truth, rather than attempt to back up your foolish posting as if a person like Joel Beeke, has nothing to offer. Joel Beeke is only one of hundreds that would help someone like you to not remain ignorant, but you are a free moral agent, and can freely choose to remain in ignorance, and bound by your sin nature! The Apostles were not for ignorance;
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren,
Once again, a false claim. The Greek word is "tasso" and it means "an appointment made by mutual agreement.
Why not believe 2 Peter 3:12: NASB
looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!
Here is the NET bible footnote:
Or possibly, “striving for,” but the meaning “hasten” for σπουδάζω (spoudazw) is normative in Jewish apocalyptic literature (in which the coming of the Messiah/the end is anticipated). Such a hastening is not an arm-twisting of the divine volition, but a response by believers that has been decreed by God.
There no need to not accept the plain meaning of the verse, except to revise it to fit previously accepted dogma.
Ditto for the fields are white for harvest, or many shall seek the narrow door or on and on. We either subject God's word to our doctrine or we subject our doctrine to God's word. God gives grace to the humble.
Here again is a restatement
The view "of God planning to save a specific number of individuals for His own possession and then end the age of grace, with Christ setting foot on the Mount, I believe is true. So the more we help to harvest from the fields white for harvest, the sooner Christ will return. Thus we should be endeavoring to "hasten the day.""
37818
Well-Known Member
"CDS?". Meaning?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Show where at the white throne judgment unconditional election is blamed for why a sinner did not repent.
As often as the read and understand theoir bibles in Eph1, 2 tim 1:9 ,or Rom8& 9
Yes, a great number , that cannot be diminished or increased. It is perfect Because God is perfect in His knowledge and eternal purpose. He cannot save one more person, or one less person that he has elected!
Those who love and remain in their sin are reprobated ,yes for sure, to the praise of His glorious justice
They are condemned first By Adam's sin, then doubly condemned by a lifetime of sin and rebellion against God. They are totally at fault, and responsable to repent and believe the gospel Command.
No, as free moral agents who are bound by sin ,they are commanded to repent and believe, but they have no desire to do that. Do not blame God for their sin. As free moral agents they choose sin, and to create their own god, rather than trust and obey, the true and living God.
I offer simple bible truth that you shield yourself from and remain in rebellion to revealed truth.
Not,quite the contrary,Calvinism declares the truth that all died Spiritually In Adam,,and are totally depraved. Your ignorance of these truths keeps you in rebellion to the scripture, that you profess that you believe???...So you are an unbelieving believer
And you cannot even find one in six messages?? let's be honest, you do not even listen, because you prefer to remain ignorant of Divine truth, rather than attempt to back up your foolish posting as if a person like Joel Beeke, has nothing to offer. Joel Beeke is only one of hundreds that would help someone like you to not remain ignorant, but you are a free moral agent, and can freely choose to remain in ignorance, and bound by your sin nature! The Apostles were not for ignorance;
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren,
Z all you have proven is that you are a calvinist. Your own confessions say that God determined all things thus any one that is condemned is condemned because God determined that they would be condemned B4 they even existed. If your version of god picked out all those that would be saved prior to creation then logically he also picked out all those that would be doomed.
It is sad that even that simple fact seems to be beyond your ability to grasp.
Why would I, someone that trusts the word of God, want to listen to someone, Beeke, that promotes a philosophy based on pagan teachings?
It is sad that you have placed so much faith in man.
Is God allowed to run salvation then as He so chooses? Can He decide who are the elect or not?
37818
Well-Known Member
Tasso means an arrangement by mutual consent. It does not matter whether in the middle or passive voice. If in the passive voice, that means the person or people receive benefit from the action.
You, Sir, have been sold a fiction. I cannot pull you out. You must actually study and find the truth for yourself.
May God bless