The Number Of God’s Elect

[Van]

What does Acts 13:48 say?

Act 13:48
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.

The Greek word, translated as "appointed" is "tasso" (G5021). The word appears in eight verses and is always used to indicate people accepting direction or an arrangement, rather than an unilateral placement.

Calvinists beat this dead horse incessantly, because they actually do not know what the word means in context.

In Matthew 28:16 the disciples chose to follow Christ's direction and went to the place "designated" (tasso) by Jesus.

In Luke 7:8 soldiers choose to follow the directions of their superior.

In Acts 15:2 Paul and others agree to take the direction to go to Jerusalem.

In Acts 22:10 Paul is told to go to Damascus where he will be told what is designated for his to do.

In Acts 28:23, A day is designated for Paul to preach and Paul follows that direction.

In Romans 13:1, governments are described or specified or arranged by God and implemented accordingly.

And in 1 Corinthians 15:16 people devoted (committed) themselves to ministry.

So the word is actually used in every case to indicate an arrangement by mutual agreement, not an unilateral action. The specified arrangement is received passively, and the acceptance or rejection actively.

Therefore the actual message of Acts 13:48 is all those who accepted Paul's direction to eternal life believed. Here is the verse translated with clarity:

When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and all who had been appointed by mutual consent to eternal life believed.

This translation choice restores the contextual meaning of tasso, and eliminates the rewrite using tithemi.

 

[Tea]

Calvinists readily embrace the straightforward interpretation of 2 Peter 3:12. We are encouraged to hasten the day while we look forward to the Lord’s return. However, this does not imply that time needs to be flexible, as the poster has proposed. To claim otherwise would undermine God’s foreknowledge of Christ’s return and aligns with the concept of open theism. We don’t want to go there.

In a desperate attempt to save face, the poster now ends up creating even more confusion by explaining one Greek term using another. It's truly astonishing how far some folks will go to defend their traditions, isn't it?

Ultimately, the poster pretends to possess greater knowledge than some of the most well respected Greek translators in the world. It goes without saying that we should all be cautious and not let ourselves be confused by those who lack a formal education in the field.

 

[Van]

Calvinists readily embrace the straightforward interpretation of 2 Peter 3:12. We are encouraged to hasten the day while we look forward to the Lord’s return. However, this does not imply that time needs to be flexible, as the poster has proposed. To claim otherwise would undermine God’s foreknowledge of Christ’s return and aligns with the concept of open theism. We don’t want to go there.

In a desperate attempt to save face, the poster now ends up creating even more confusion by explaining one Greek term using another. It's truly astonishing how far some folks will go to defend their traditions, isn't it?

Ultimately, the poster pretends to possess greater knowledge than some of the most well respected Greek translators in the world. It goes without saying that we should all be cautious and not let ourselves be confused by those who lack a formal education in the field.

This poster, Tea, "in a desperate attempt," claims my view produces "even more confusion." Did I introduce Acts 13:48 to defend changing the meaning of scripture. Take a look at post #51.

Did I ever say or suggest I am an expert in Greek? No, as I know almost nothing of Greek, but can read in English those who do know, like Dr. Wallace. or Lexicons that provide the range of meanings for "tasso." which includes" an arrangement or an agreement by mural consent." I then showed how each and every usage in the New Testament conveyed that and only that meaning.

 

[Tea]

No, as I know almost nothing of Greek, but can read in English those who do know, like Dr. Wallace. or Lexicons that provide the range of meanings for "tasso."

It is unreasonable to expect the average Bible student to know Greek. At the same time, it is also unwise it is to depend exclusively on Greek lexicons and the like; otherwise, one is likely to trip up repeatedly, as has been shown in the previous few pages.

It's best to let those who comprehend the original languages handle it so as to avoid picking and choosing which translations will fit best into our own conclusions.

 

[kyredneck]

What does Acts 13:48 say?

John Chapter 10

27​	My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Acts Chapter 13

48​	And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

[Tea]

It is called foreknowledge. He knows all those that will freely trust in Him.

How else can God know that something is going to happen in the future unless it's already been determined that it will occur precisely that way, along with all the events that lead up to that moment?

God determines all things but yet man is responsible as if he could over rule what God has determined.

God has determined to allow fallen man to freely do the evil that they already have the desire to do. That doesn't make God responsible for their actions.

I have, but I do not read them through those calvinist glasses.

Nobody reads them through a "Calvinist lens"; we're just letting the verses say what they say.

But it would seem that you think foreknowledge of who will freely trust in God actually means that God has to have picked them out before creation.

God knows in advance who He intended to save even before the world was created. If you argue that He foreknew those who would choose to trust in Him freely, the outcome remains that those individuals will ultimately be saved regardless. Your efforts to bypass the concept of unconditional election are ineffective and reflect the same error that many Molinists commit.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

Yes God is patient with believers but He also wants all to come to repentance as we see here:
1Ti 2:3 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

So we see that God is consistent in His desire that all be saved.

You're still assuming that it means all of humanity without taking a closer look at the context.

Faith is not a work but it is a condition of our salvation. Faith is not a human effort as you seem to think.

The bible does not call faith a work so why do the calvinists do so?

According to Paul, work is defined as the human endeavor to will oneself to have faith.

Romans 9:11 (ESV)
Though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls.

Romans 9:16 (ESV)
So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

These have to be the most soul crushing doctrines that have ever been put forward.

God has the right to leave mercy off the table, and all we'd be left with is justice and wrath that we rightfully deserve—but He didn't. I find that to be the very opposite of soul-crushing, and you should too.

Actually according to calvinism God has determined who will reject Him. For callvinists to say He picked out their so called"elect" and yet deny that also means that the rest are condemned is just denial of simple logic.

It's not a denial of simple logic. We should be grateful that He chose to save even one person out of the human race.

So you are now agreeing that under the calvinist view God has determined all those that will reject Him and that He is the author of all the sin and evil we see in the world.

I deny that God is the author of evil, and I will continue to do so.

Even to condemn those He made reject Him from the start.

Man condemned themselves.

Now when you say that then you have to agree that God has actually given man a free will.

Yeah, that was back in the garden, and it didn't last very long, did it?

But according to your calvinism you were "elect" b4 creation so no faith as you did not exist. But even the faith you think you have is something that you say God gave you after you were saved so you have to hope that it is real since you had nothing to do with it.

I'm very capable of knowing if I have faith or not. I know it's there, so I know it came from God.

But the only reason that I know that I am one of the elect is because I freely trusted in Christ Jesus and was placed in the "Elect One"

Jesus is the Elect One, but that does not imply that He is established as a salvation plan that individuals can choose to enter, thereby activating God's grace. That concept is not presented to us in the scriptures.

 

[kyredneck]

we're just letting the verses say what they say.

Amen! Self-interpreting if you let it.

 

[kyredneck]

He is established as a salvation plan that individuals can choose to enter, thereby activating God's grace. That concept is not presented to us in the scriptures.

Amen!

1st Corinthians Chapter 1

26​	For behold your calling, brethren, that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27​	but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put to shame them that are wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong;
28​	and the base things of the world, and the things that are despised, did God choose, yea and the things that are not, that he might bring to nought the things that are:
29​	that no flesh should glory before God.
30​	But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption:
31​	that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

But characters like @Charlie24 and @Silverhair consider themselves special. It is of themselves that they are in Christ Jesus. Sovereign Grace folks give all the glory to God. They don't.

 

[Silverhair]

Amen!

1st Corinthians Chapter 1

26​	For behold your calling, brethren, that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27​	but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put to shame them that are wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong;
28​	and the base things of the world, and the things that are despised, did God choose, yea and the things that are not, that he might bring to nought the things that are:
29​	that no flesh should glory before God.
30​	But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption:
31​	that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

But characters like @Charlie24 and @Silverhair consider themselves special. It is of themselves that they are in Christ Jesus. Sovereign Grace folks give all the glory to God. They don't.

Now KY you are just jealous that people like @Charlie24 and myself choose to trust in the living God. We were not special but we are now, were saved.

You have to hope that you were actually picked out as you really have no way of knowing for sure do you?

 

[Charlie24]

Now KY you are just jealous that people like @Charlie24 and myself choose to trust in the living God. We were not special but we are now, were saved.

You have to hope that you were actually picked out as you really have no way of knowing for sure do you?

It seems as if they are afraid to make a decision for Christ.

 

[Silverhair]

It seems as if they are afraid to make a decision for Christ.

We really should not tease them like this. But it is fun.

 

[Tea]

It seems as if they are afraid to make a decision for Christ.

It’s not about being “afraid” to make a decision for Christ; it’s about whether or not I had the ability to make a decision for Christ on my own. That’s what we’re trying to highlight.

 

[Tea]

We really should not tease them like this. But it is fun.

Well, I’m glad you’re having a good time; however, some of us are trying to take these discussions seriously while having to fend off Vanology. There’s plenty of wacky stuff on this board that would be more worthy of poking fun at.

 

[Charlie24]

It’s not about being “afraid” to make a decision for Christ; it’s about whether or not I had the ability to make a decision for Christ on my own. That’s what we’re trying to highlight.

When the Gospel is given God the Holy Spirit gives the ability to decide.

No one can come to Christ unless it is given to man, and the opportunity is given at the hearing of the Gospel.

 

[Tea]

When the Gospel is given God the Holy Spirit gives the ability to decide.

No one can come to Christ unless it is given to man, and the opportunity is given at the hearing of the Gospel.

No one can come to Christ unless they have first been given to Him by the Father. Then, when they hear the Gospel, they will respond positively to it. If they have not been given to the Son by the Father, they will respond negatively to it.

That’s the biblically defined role of the Gospel.

 

[Silverhair]

Well, I’m glad you’re having a good time; however, some of us are trying to take these discussions seriously while having to fend off Vanology. There’s plenty of wacky stuff on this board that would be more worthy of poking fun at.

Of course I have fun even when dealing with serious discussions. I always enjoy talking about the word of God. Don't you?

 

[Charlie24]

No one can come to Christ unless they have first been given to Him by the Father. Then, when they hear the Gospel, they will respond positively to it. If they have not been given to the Son by the Father, they will respond negatively to it.

That’s the biblically defined role of the Gospel.

How do you define, "Whosoever will let Him take the water of life freely?"

There is no Scripture that tells us God decides who will be saved, that is man-made theology at work!

 

[Tea]

Of course I have fun even when dealing with serious discussions. I always enjoy talking about the word of God. Don't you?

That’s why I’m here!

 

[Tea]

How do you define, "Whosoever will let Him take the water of life freely?"

There is no Scripture that tells us God decides who will be saved, that is man-made theology at work!

The Greek word for "freely" means without cost, not free will. Jesus said that no one can come to Him unless they have been granted to Him by the Father. Therefore, we can conclude that those who partake in the water of life are those who have been given to the Son.

 

[Charlie24]

How do you define, "Whosoever will let Him take the water of life freely?"

There is no Scripture that tells us God decides who will be saved, that is man-made theology at work!

What about "whosoever will" would that mean the water of life is there for whosoever?