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Psalm 7:11

V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ben1445 said:
So God is satisfied with the wicked sometimes?
Has no problem with them sometimes?
Takes no issue with them sometimes?
Or is it a continuous conflict between God and the wicked?
Click to expand...
One again I say "A" and this poster suggests I said "B."

A righteous judge would not judge in anger appears to be the idea.

You can make silly claims, not angry equals being satisfied and having no problem till the cows come home. Does not edify.

Does God only judge the righteous or only judge the wicked? Not what the context teaches, God is a righteous judge, of both the wicked and the righreous for He judges the people.
 
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V

Van

Well-Known Member
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Deacon said:
Rather than being wrong, it's a matter of adequate and better.

The AV:
1) expanded the Hebrew text,
2) missed the poetic parallelism.

Notice how compact the Hebrew text is.

Psalm 7:12 (BHS OT)
אֱ֭לֹהִים שֹׁופֵ֣ט צַדִּ֑יק
וְ֝אֵ֗ל זֹעֵ֥ם בְּכָל־יֹֽום׃

God (אֱ֭לֹהִים - Elohim) administers justice (שֹׁופֵ֣ט - shaphat) [for the] just (צַדִּ֑יק - tsaddiq)
and God (וְ֝אֵ֗ל - El) anger/indignation (זֹעֵ֥ם - zaam) all/every day (בְּכָל־יֹֽום - becal yom)

Here's how Robert Alter translates the verse:

God exacts justice for the righteous
and El utters doom each day.

The problem with interpretation lies in the terseness of Hebrew language.
The subjects involved in Psalm 7 include the righteous, the wicked and God;
The subject of each verse is often unidentified.
Is a passage dealing with God, humans in general or a group (the righteous and the wicked)?

Rob
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I disagree, the context does not even suggest God judges the righteous, rather God judges righteously the people. And still further afield, God does not judge the wicked to provide justice to the righteous. His justice is perfect thus consistent with His attribute, God is just.

But now lets turn to the crux, does God "utter doom" continually or does God utter doom and blessing continually?

Why did I interpret the verse as saying God is NOT angry or indignant or uttering doom all the time?

From the internet:

In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance.​

See YLT of Psalm 7:11
 
Deacon

Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Psalm 7:12 (LES - Lexham English Septuagint)
God is a righteous judge,
and strong and longsuffering, not bringing wrath every single day.

Psalm 7:12 (NETS - New English Translation of the Septuagint)
God is a righteous judge,
[and strong and patient], one who does not bring on wrath every day.
Van said:
Why did I interpret the verse as saying God is NOT angry or indignant or uttering doom all the time?

From the internet:
​

In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance. ​

See YLT of Psalm 7:11
Click to expand...
Psalm 7:12 (NETSept)
God is a righteous judge, [and strong and patient], one who does not bring on wrath every day.

Psalm 7:12 (LESept)
God is a righteous judge, and strong and longsuffering, not bringing wrath every single day.

Psalm 7:11 (YLT)
God is a righteous judge, And He is not angry at all times.


The translators of the LXX took the ʾl as a negative particle (not), rather than translating it as a conjunction (and).

Rob
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Deacon said:
Psalm 7:12 (LES - Lexham English Septuagint)
God is a righteous judge,
and strong and longsuffering, not bringing wrath every single day.

Psalm 7:12 (NETS - New English Translation of the Septuagint)
God is a righteous judge,
[and strong and patient], one who does not bring on wrath every day.

Psalm 7:12 (NETSept)
God is a righteous judge, [and strong and patient], one who does not bring on wrath every day.

Psalm 7:12 (LESept)
God is a righteous judge, and strong and longsuffering, not bringing wrath every single day.

Psalm 7:11 (YLT)
God is a righteous judge, And He is not angry at all times.


The translators of the LXX took the ʾl as a negative particle (not), rather than translating it as a conjunction (and).

Rob
Click to expand...
Yes, and that view seems correct to me, that is why I presented that view. Note, verse 12, if a person does not repent, thus patience rather than wrath is indicated. I am interpreting Paslm 7:11 through the lens of Romans 9:22.

But I would be remiss if I did not note your response was both accurate and insightful, thanks!
 
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J

JD731

Well-Known Member
Alan Dale Gross said:
This is the End of Time and the Consummation of the Age, when Jesus Returns.
Click to expand...
I am attempting in this thread to show the application of the Psalms, in a prophetic and actual and practical sense, are to be applied to the people of God, Israel, with whom he has a covenant relationship. That people is Israel. In none of the Psalms are we to understand that the church of Jesus Christ is the object of these prophecies. Particular nations are called out in the Psalms only as they relate to Israel. All these Psalms are related to the earth and to the land of Palestine and Jerusalem. These Psalms all emphasize the glory of God in our Lord Jesus Christ and his mighty deeds and infinite wisdom. They look forward to a time when Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem on the throne of David over a converted Israel and righteous nations.

I chose this series of Psalms to illustrate a theme in the Psalms that emphasized the actual coming of Jesus Christ to earth from heaven where he has been sitting on the Throne of the Father waiting for the time when Israel is brought into a national repentance at Jerusalem, which nothing but the white hot fires of persecution could prepare them for.

These Psalms all have one thing in common. There is a prayer to God for deliverance from the hand of the persecutor when it is obvious to all that there is no chance for survival of this nation and people unless God acts now.. The prayer of the Psalmist in all these Psalms to his God, who thus far has been silent until a one sentence answer in Psalm 12, where he says this;

Ps 12:5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

That's it. One line. One sentence. Now will I arise and deliver you. Guys, Israel as a nation and people is about to perish. Any more delay and it will be over. All the promises of Abraham and the Davidic Covenants are at stake here if this man of Satan prevails and he is able to destroy the city of the Great King and the Temple from which he has in the past, and will in the future, Govern his people Israel.

Why does the Psalmist say what he does here?

Psa 12:56 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

His tone has changed. He is confident now whereas he was in anguish before. The words of God are a comfort to our soul. This now is no longer a prayer, but his assurance that his prayer was heard and the LORD has finally spoken and unlike the boastful and proud and vain words of the oppressor, the words of the LORD are pure words and the people who were facing destruction and elimination, both as a nation and as a people are preserved from "this generation" forever. Obviously, if this prophecy is of future events, the Psalm is not speaking about the words of David, or the words or my generation or the words of your generation but he is speaking about the generation that will prevail over Satan and his host in that generation and who will live to be be the subjects of the Great Savior and King Jesus who delivered them from the sword and hell.


I cannot emphasize enough that we must allow words to have meaning and context in the scriptures.
 
B

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Van said:
One again I say "A" and this poster suggests I said "B."

A righteous judge would not judge in anger appears to be the idea.

You can make silly claims, not angry equals being satisfied and having no problem till the cows come home. Does not edify.

Does God only judge the righteous or only judge the wicked? Not what the context teaches, God is a righteous judge, of both the wicked and the righreous for He judges the people.
Click to expand...
Does a judge only make judgments against the wicked, or do they also judge the just?
If you enter your work at a fair, you expect it to be judged. Is your expectation of that judgement a condemnation or reward. You limit the use of judgment.
Your anger is also not God’s anger. God doesn’t sin. If God is angry, He is so righteously and for a finite being to put a limit on how often God can be angry with sin is to tell God who He is or should be.
If God can manage to hear all prayers at the same time, surely you don’t think it that difficult to have a different countenance toward the wicked than toward the righteous?
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ben1445 said:
Does a judge only make judgments against the wicked, or do they also judge the just?
If you enter your work at a fair, you expect it to be judged. Is your expectation of that judgement a condemnation or reward. You limit the use of judgment.
Your anger is also not God’s anger. God doesn’t sin. If God is angry, He is so righteously and for a finite being to put a limit on how often God can be angry with sin is to tell God who He is or should be.
If God can manage to hear all prayers at the same time, surely you don’t think it that difficult to have a different countenance toward the wicked than toward the righteous?
Click to expand...
Once again, this post addresses a view point made up by the poster, and does not address the interpretation of Psalm 7:11.

​
In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance.​
​
God, a righteous judge, is not angry all the time.​
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
  1. Psalm 3:7
    Arise, O Lord; save me, O my God: for thou hast smitten all mine enemies upon the cheek bone; thou hast broken the teeth of the ungodly.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Psalm 7:6
    Arise, O Lord, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of mine enemies: and awake for me to the judgment that thou hast commanded.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. Psalm 9:19
    Arise, O Lord; let not man prevail: let the heathen be judged in thy sight.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  4. Psalm 10:12
    Arise, O Lord; O God, lift up thine hand: forget not the humble.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  5. Psalm 17:13
    Arise, O Lord, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword:
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  6. Psalm 44:23
    Awake, why sleepest thou, O Lord? arise, cast us not off for ever.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  7. Psalm 44:26
    Arise for our help, and redeem us for thy mercies' sake.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  8. Psalm 68:1
    Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
  9. Psalm 74:22
    Arise, O God, plead thine own cause: remember how the foolish man reproacheth thee daily.
  10. Psalm 82:8
    Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  11. Psalm 12:5
    For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the Lord; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  12. Psalm 102:13
    Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea, the set time, is come.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations



    The Great Tribulation, the Day of the LORD, is a world wide judgement effecting all nations but the prophecies are of the scriptures are related to Israel. The "times of the gentiles" is the period of time when the rule of all the earth is gentile rule. This began when there was no longer a throne in Jerusalem with a king sitting on it. One can mark this from the Babylonian captivity of 586 BC. There has not been a king over Israel since those days but Israel has always since been subject to gentile kings . Now in the life time of many of us on here there is once again a nation of Israel but it is not a kingdom. There is still not a king. Jesus Christ will be the next and last legitimate king over Israel and his rule will will end the times of the gentiles. The gentile nations will be subject to King Jesus and Israel will be the chief nation on the earth. They will be the head and not the tail.



:These Psalms above deal with the time when Jesus Christ arises from the Father's throne to take his throne in Jerusalem by ending the times of the gentiles.

LK 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.


Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

iN 1948 Israel became a nation with self rule again. But Israel will be dispersed once again from her land under the oppressive hand of the antichrist. The prophecies in Acts 2 above deals with this third dispersion from her land and the LORD arising to come to her aid.

Because the nature of this judgement both the righteous and the wicked are said to be under judgement as according to Ps 7.The LORD is not present on the earth during this time.

Remember the parallels of scriptures.All things of God are in threes.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance.

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction?

Was God angry with the OT Saints He transferred into Abraham's bosom upon their physical death? Or could many objects of wrath be patiently invited so that a few might be chosen?

God, a righteous judge, is not angry all the time.
 
B

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Van said:
In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance.

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction?

Was God angry with the OT Saints He transferred into Abraham's bosom upon their physical death? Or could many objects of wrath be patiently invited so that a few might be chosen?

God, a righteous judge, is not angry all the time.
Click to expand...
Way to morph your statement as the conversation goes along.
You must always be right, even when you are wrong.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ben1445 said:
Way to morph your statement as the conversation goes along.
You must always be right, even when you are wrong.
Click to expand...
Yet another personal insult, with nary a note concerning the topic.

In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance.

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction?

Was God angry with the OT Saints He transferred into Abraham's bosom upon their physical death? Or could many objects of wrath be patiently invited so that a few might be chosen?

God, a righteous judge, is not angry all the time.
 
Alan Dale Gross

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
Do you have a Bible reference for "a time when Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem on the throne of David over a converted Israel and righteous nations"?
JD731 said:
They look forward to a time when Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem on the throne of David over a converted Israel and righteous nations.
Click to expand...
...
Where is it that you think there is a covenant relationship with 'Israel' that hasn't already been fulfilled by Jesus Christ, in the New Testament?
JD731 said:
the application of the Psalms, in a prophetic and actual and practical sense, are to be applied to the people of God, Israel, with whom he has a covenant relationship.
Click to expand...
...
JD731 said:
All these Psalms are related to the earth and to the land of Palestine and Jerusalem.
Click to expand...
If they are, do we have to add the words 'earth', 'land of Palestine' and 'Jerusalem' to your presumed source and non-proof text, Revelation 20:4?
...
JD731 said:
I chose this series of Psalms to illustrate a theme in the Psalms that emphasized the actual coming of Jesus Christ to earth from heaven where he has been sitting on the Throne of the Father waiting for the time when Israel is brought into a national repentance at Jerusalem, which nothing but the white hot fires of persecution could prepare them for.
Click to expand...
Do you have any scripture where Jesus Comes to Earth and Sits on His Father's Throne?, like you say here; "the actual coming of Jesus Christ to earth from heaven where he has been sitting on the Throne of the Father".

I've never seen that.

I ask for scripture, I guess, because there a lot of times you cover a lot of ground without citing any and I'm wondering if you've been had, by just believing your own 'narrative' and/or, in other words, baloney.

Like, where is this taught? "waiting for the time when Israel is brought into a national repentance at Jerusalem."
...
JD731 said:
the Temple from which he has in the past, and will in the future, Govern his people Israel.
Click to expand...
So, there is somewhere the Bible says that Jesus will govern His people Israel, in the future?
...

Oh, if we could find an example of this emphasis exercised in good faith.
JD731 said:
I cannot emphasize enough that we must allow words to have meaning and context in the scriptures.
Click to expand...
Oh, if we could find an example of this emphasis exercised in good faith.
 
B

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Alan Dale Gross said:
Do you have a Bible reference for "a time when Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem on the throne of David over a converted Israel and righteous nations"?
Click to expand...
Rev. 22:16 Jesus is the owner of the throne of David.

In Revelation 20, Jesus rules in the millennium over the nations (mentioned in vs 7) of the earth.
In eternity, with a new earth, I suspect the geography will be different and the inhabitants will all be one in Christ. In that case, nations seems to be a remembrance of the former.

Details of events are nothing to strive about. God will sort out the details.
Alan Dale Gross said:
...
Where is it that you think there is a covenant relationship with 'Israel' that hasn't already been fulfilled by Jesus Christ, in the New Testament?

...
Click to expand...
Romans 11:25,30
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Notice the use of the names. And through the chapter, there is a bit that doesn’t doesn’t make sense unless gentiles are gentiles Israel is the Jews. unless you believe that the elect are not secure in their position and have been removed, Israel and their blindness is speaking of the Jews.
Alan Dale Gross said:
If they are, do we have to add the words 'earth', 'land of Palestine' and 'Jerusalem' to your presumed source and non-proof text, Revelation 20:4?
...
Click to expand...

In your case, should they be removed?

The nations are deceived by Satan after his release for a season. It follows that the nations existed in verse four that are being deceived in vs 7.
Alan Dale Gross said:
Like, where is this taught? "waiting for the time when Israel is brought into a national repentance at Jerusalem."
...

So, there is somewhere the Bible says that Jesus will govern His people Israel, in the future?
...
Click to expand...
If you can explain when Isaiah 60-66 is prophecy past, I might be able to understand your position.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance." [from the internet]

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction? [Romans 9:22]

Was God angry with the OT Saints He transferred into Abraham's bosom upon their physical death? Or could many objects of wrath be patiently invited so that a few might be chosen?

God, a righteous judge, is not angry all the time. [Interpretive translation]
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
Alan Dale Gross said:
Do you have a Bible reference for "a time when Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem on the throne of David over a converted Israel and righteous nations"?
Click to expand...

Yes!
Ps 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Ps 10:16 The LORD [is] King for ever and ever: the heathen are perished out of his land.
Ps 24:7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
Ps 24:8 Who [is] this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
Ps 24:9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift [them] up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
Ps 24:10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he [is] the King of glory. Selah.
Ps 29:10 The LORD sitteth upon the flood; yea, the LORD sitteth King for ever.
Ps 47:2 For the LORD most high [is] terrible; [he is] a great King over all the earth.
Ps 47:7 For God [is] the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.
Ps 48:2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, [is] mount Zion, [on] the sides of the north, the city of the great King.
Ps 89:18 For the LORD [is] our defence; and the Holy One of Israel [is] our king.
Ps 95:3 For the LORD [is] a great God, and a great King above all gods.
Ps 98:6 With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the LORD, the King.
Ps 149:2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
Pr 25:5 Take away the wicked [from] before the king, and his throne shall be established in righteousness.
Jer 10:10 But the LORD [is] the true God, he [is] the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Mt 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 45:17 [But] Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Ro 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Re 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

I began a thread a while back that dealt with "the day of the LORD" where we find out the exact time our Lord returns to put down gentile rule and to claim his rightful place on the Throne of David. Jesus Christ will actually for the first time since he ascended back to heaven in Acts 1 be revealed to every eye on the earth. It truly is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. I will quote some of the event in Re 19.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which [sword] proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Alan, please do not laud the KJV if you will not believe what it says.
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
Alan Dale Gross said:
Where is it that you think there is a covenant relationship with 'Israel' that hasn't already been fulfilled by Jesus Christ, in the New Testament?
Click to expand...
Yes!

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram [was] seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.
5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother s son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.
6 And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite [was] then in the land.
7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

Gen 13:14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, [then] shall thy seed also be numbered.
17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.
18 Then Abram removed [his] tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which [is] in Hebron, and built there an altar unto the LORD.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.


The Abrahamic covenant has 12 promises but it is one covenant and God swore an oath to keep it.

He 6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. (the seed)
16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation [is] to them an end of all strife.
17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed [it] by an oath:

There is more but this should suffice. Forever means forever and everlasting means everlasting. A consideration of Ga 3.

Ga 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee (in Abraham) shall all nations be blessed. (This is the Abrahamic Covenant concerning the nations and his Seed)

This is the glad tidings and the good news that God has promised that a Seed would come from his family that would save his family as well as the gentile families. The promise is Jesus Christ.

See if you can pick up on the Abraham Covenant here.

Ga 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though [it be] but a man s covenant, yet [if it be] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after (430 years after the Abraham covenant), cannot disannul, that it (the covenant of Law) should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave it (the covenant) to Abraham by promise. (The Covenant of Law changed nothing about the Abrahamic Covenant especially the promise of the Seed which is Jesus Christ)
19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ fulfilled the promise of the Seed and ended the Law of Moses as an operative principle of divine dealing with Israel but it did not fulfill all of the Abrahamic Covenant. Israel will have all her land forever as promised.
 
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