Psalm 7:11

[Van]

So God is satisfied with the wicked sometimes?
Has no problem with them sometimes?
Takes no issue with them sometimes?
Or is it a continuous conflict between God and the wicked?

One again I say "A" and this poster suggests I said "B."

A righteous judge would not judge in anger appears to be the idea.

You can make silly claims, not angry equals being satisfied and having no problem till the cows come home. Does not edify.

Does God only judge the righteous or only judge the wicked? Not what the context teaches, God is a righteous judge, of both the wicked and the righreous for He judges the people.

 

[Van]

Rather than being wrong, it's a matter of adequate and better.

The AV:
1) expanded the Hebrew text,
2) missed the poetic parallelism.

Notice how compact the Hebrew text is.

Psalm 7:12 (BHS OT)
אֱ֭לֹהִים שֹׁופֵ֣ט צַדִּ֑יק
וְ֝אֵ֗ל זֹעֵ֥ם בְּכָל־יֹֽום׃

God (אֱ֭לֹהִים - Elohim) administers justice (שֹׁופֵ֣ט - shaphat) [for the] just (צַדִּ֑יק - tsaddiq)
and God (וְ֝אֵ֗ל - El) anger/indignation (זֹעֵ֥ם - zaam) all/every day (בְּכָל־יֹֽום - becal yom)

Here's how Robert Alter translates the verse:

God exacts justice for the righteous
and El utters doom each day.

The problem with interpretation lies in the terseness of Hebrew language.
The subjects involved in Psalm 7 include the righteous, the wicked and God;
The subject of each verse is often unidentified.
Is a passage dealing with God, humans in general or a group (the righteous and the wicked)?

Rob

I disagree, the context does not even suggest God judges the righteous, rather God judges righteously the people. And still further afield, God does not judge the wicked to provide justice to the righteous. His justice is perfect thus consistent with His attribute, God is just.

But now lets turn to the crux, does God "utter doom" continually or does God utter doom and blessing continually?

Why did I interpret the verse as saying God is NOT angry or indignant or uttering doom all the time?

From the internet:

In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance.​

See YLT of Psalm 7:11

 

[Deacon]

Psalm 7:12 (LES - Lexham English Septuagint)
God is a righteous judge,
and strong and longsuffering, not bringing wrath every single day.

Psalm 7:12 (NETS - New English Translation of the Septuagint)
God is a righteous judge,
[and strong and patient], one who does not bring on wrath every day.

Why did I interpret the verse as saying God is NOT angry or indignant or uttering doom all the time?

From the internet:

​

In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance. ​

See YLT of Psalm 7:11

Psalm 7:12 (NETSept)
God is a righteous judge, [and strong and patient], one who does not bring on wrath every day.

Psalm 7:12 (LESept)
God is a righteous judge, and strong and longsuffering, not bringing wrath every single day.

Psalm 7:11 (YLT)
God is a righteous judge, And He is not angry at all times.


The translators of the LXX took the ʾl as a negative particle (not), rather than translating it as a conjunction (and).

Rob

 

[Van]

Psalm 7:12 (LES - Lexham English Septuagint)
God is a righteous judge,
and strong and longsuffering, not bringing wrath every single day.

Psalm 7:12 (NETS - New English Translation of the Septuagint)
God is a righteous judge,
[and strong and patient], one who does not bring on wrath every day.

Psalm 7:12 (NETSept)
God is a righteous judge, [and strong and patient], one who does not bring on wrath every day.

Psalm 7:12 (LESept)
God is a righteous judge, and strong and longsuffering, not bringing wrath every single day.

Psalm 7:11 (YLT)
God is a righteous judge, And He is not angry at all times.


The translators of the LXX took the ʾl as a negative particle (not), rather than translating it as a conjunction (and).

Rob

Yes, and that view seems correct to me, that is why I presented that view. Note, verse 12, if a person does not repent, thus patience rather than wrath is indicated. I am interpreting Paslm 7:11 through the lens of Romans 9:22.

But I would be remiss if I did not note your response was both accurate and insightful, thanks!

 

[JD731]

This is the End of Time and the Consummation of the Age, when Jesus Returns.

I am attempting in this thread to show the application of the Psalms, in a prophetic and actual and practical sense, are to be applied to the people of God, Israel, with whom he has a covenant relationship. That people is Israel. In none of the Psalms are we to understand that the church of Jesus Christ is the object of these prophecies. Particular nations are called out in the Psalms only as they relate to Israel. All these Psalms are related to the earth and to the land of Palestine and Jerusalem. These Psalms all emphasize the glory of God in our Lord Jesus Christ and his mighty deeds and infinite wisdom. They look forward to a time when Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem on the throne of David over a converted Israel and righteous nations.

I chose this series of Psalms to illustrate a theme in the Psalms that emphasized the actual coming of Jesus Christ to earth from heaven where he has been sitting on the Throne of the Father waiting for the time when Israel is brought into a national repentance at Jerusalem, which nothing but the white hot fires of persecution could prepare them for.

These Psalms all have one thing in common. There is a prayer to God for deliverance from the hand of the persecutor when it is obvious to all that there is no chance for survival of this nation and people unless God acts now.. The prayer of the Psalmist in all these Psalms to his God, who thus far has been silent until a one sentence answer in Psalm 12, where he says this;

Ps 12:5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

That's it. One line. One sentence. Now will I arise and deliver you. Guys, Israel as a nation and people is about to perish. Any more delay and it will be over. All the promises of Abraham and the Davidic Covenants are at stake here if this man of Satan prevails and he is able to destroy the city of the Great King and the Temple from which he has in the past, and will in the future, Govern his people Israel.

Why does the Psalmist say what he does here?

Psa 12:56 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

His tone has changed. He is confident now whereas he was in anguish before. The words of God are a comfort to our soul. This now is no longer a prayer, but his assurance that his prayer was heard and the LORD has finally spoken and unlike the boastful and proud and vain words of the oppressor, the words of the LORD are pure words and the people who were facing destruction and elimination, both as a nation and as a people are preserved from "this generation" forever. Obviously, if this prophecy is of future events, the Psalm is not speaking about the words of David, or the words or my generation or the words of your generation but he is speaking about the generation that will prevail over Satan and his host in that generation and who will live to be be the subjects of the Great Savior and King Jesus who delivered them from the sword and hell.


I cannot emphasize enough that we must allow words to have meaning and context in the scriptures.

 

[Ben1445]

One again I say "A" and this poster suggests I said "B."

A righteous judge would not judge in anger appears to be the idea.

You can make silly claims, not angry equals being satisfied and having no problem till the cows come home. Does not edify.

Does God only judge the righteous or only judge the wicked? Not what the context teaches, God is a righteous judge, of both the wicked and the righreous for He judges the people.

Does a judge only make judgments against the wicked, or do they also judge the just?
If you enter your work at a fair, you expect it to be judged. Is your expectation of that judgement a condemnation or reward. You limit the use of judgment.
Your anger is also not God’s anger. God doesn’t sin. If God is angry, He is so righteously and for a finite being to put a limit on how often God can be angry with sin is to tell God who He is or should be.
If God can manage to hear all prayers at the same time, surely you don’t think it that difficult to have a different countenance toward the wicked than toward the righteous?

 

[Van]

Does a judge only make judgments against the wicked, or do they also judge the just?
If you enter your work at a fair, you expect it to be judged. Is your expectation of that judgement a condemnation or reward. You limit the use of judgment.
Your anger is also not God’s anger. God doesn’t sin. If God is angry, He is so righteously and for a finite being to put a limit on how often God can be angry with sin is to tell God who He is or should be.
If God can manage to hear all prayers at the same time, surely you don’t think it that difficult to have a different countenance toward the wicked than toward the righteous?

Once again, this post addresses a view point made up by the poster, and does not address the interpretation of Psalm 7:11.

​

In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance.​

​

God, a righteous judge, is not angry all the time.​

 

[JD731]

1. Psalm 3:7
   Arise, O Lord; save me, O my God: for thou hast smitten all mine enemies upon the cheek bone; thou hast broken the teeth of the ungodly.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Psalm 7:6
   Arise, O Lord, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of mine enemies: and awake for me to the judgment that thou hast commanded.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Psalm 9:19
   Arise, O Lord; let not man prevail: let the heathen be judged in thy sight.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. Psalm 10:12
   Arise, O Lord; O God, lift up thine hand: forget not the humble.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
5. Psalm 17:13
   Arise, O Lord, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword:
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
6. Psalm 44:23
   Awake, why sleepest thou, O Lord? arise, cast us not off for ever.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
7. Psalm 44:26
   Arise for our help, and redeem us for thy mercies' sake.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
8. Psalm 68:1
   Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
9. Psalm 74:22
   Arise, O God, plead thine own cause: remember how the foolish man reproacheth thee daily.
10. Psalm 82:8
    Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
11. Psalm 12:5
    For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the Lord; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
12. Psalm 102:13
    Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea, the set time, is come.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
    
    
    
    The Great Tribulation, the Day of the LORD, is a world wide judgement effecting all nations but the prophecies are of the scriptures are related to Israel. The "times of the gentiles" is the period of time when the rule of all the earth is gentile rule. This began when there was no longer a throne in Jerusalem with a king sitting on it. One can mark this from the Babylonian captivity of 586 BC. There has not been a king over Israel since those days but Israel has always since been subject to gentile kings . Now in the life time of many of us on here there is once again a nation of Israel but it is not a kingdom. There is still not a king. Jesus Christ will be the next and last legitimate king over Israel and his rule will will end the times of the gentiles. The gentile nations will be subject to King Jesus and Israel will be the chief nation on the earth. They will be the head and not the tail.

:These Psalms above deal with the time when Jesus Christ arises from the Father's throne to take his throne in Jerusalem by ending the times of the gentiles.

LK 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.


Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

iN 1948 Israel became a nation with self rule again. But Israel will be dispersed once again from her land under the oppressive hand of the antichrist. The prophecies in Acts 2 above deals with this third dispersion from her land and the LORD arising to come to her aid.

Because the nature of this judgement both the righteous and the wicked are said to be under judgement as according to Ps 7.The LORD is not present on the earth during this time.

Remember the parallels of scriptures.All things of God are in threes.

 

[Van]

In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance.

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction?

Was God angry with the OT Saints He transferred into Abraham's bosom upon their physical death? Or could many objects of wrath be patiently invited so that a few might be chosen?

God, a righteous judge, is not angry all the time.