Psalm 7:11

Van · Dec 9, 2025

Ben1445 said:
So God is satisfied with the wicked sometimes?
Has no problem with them sometimes?
Takes no issue with them sometimes?
Or is it a continuous conflict between God and the wicked?

One again I say "A" and this poster suggests I said "B."

A righteous judge would not judge in anger appears to be the idea.

You can make silly claims, not angry equals being satisfied and having no problem till the cows come home. Does not edify.

Does God only judge the righteous or only judge the wicked? Not what the context teaches, God is a righteous judge, of both the wicked and the righreous for He judges the people.

Van · Dec 9, 2025

Deacon said:
Rather than being wrong, it's a matter of adequate and better.

The AV:
1) expanded the Hebrew text,
2) missed the poetic parallelism.

Notice how compact the Hebrew text is.

Psalm 7:12 (BHS OT)
אֱ֭לֹהִים שֹׁופֵ֣ט צַדִּ֑יק
וְ֝אֵ֗ל זֹעֵ֥ם בְּכָל־יֹֽום׃

God (אֱ֭לֹהִים - Elohim) administers justice (שֹׁופֵ֣ט - shaphat) [for the] just (צַדִּ֑יק - tsaddiq)
and God (וְ֝אֵ֗ל - El) anger/indignation (זֹעֵ֥ם - zaam) all/every day (בְּכָל־יֹֽום - becal yom)

Here's how Robert Alter translates the verse:

God exacts justice for the righteous
and El utters doom each day.

The problem with interpretation lies in the terseness of Hebrew language.
The subjects involved in Psalm 7 include the righteous, the wicked and God;
The subject of each verse is often unidentified.
Is a passage dealing with God, humans in general or a group (the righteous and the wicked)?

Rob

I disagree, the context does not even suggest God judges the righteous, rather God judges righteously the people. And still further afield, God does not judge the wicked to provide justice to the righteous. His justice is perfect thus consistent with His attribute, God is just.

But now lets turn to the crux, does God "utter doom" continually or does God utter doom and blessing continually?

Why did I interpret the verse as saying God is NOT angry or indignant or uttering doom all the time?

From the internet:

In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance.

See YLT of Psalm 7:11

Deacon · Dec 9, 2025

Psalm 7:12 (LES - Lexham English Septuagint)
God is a righteous judge,
and strong and longsuffering, not bringing wrath every single day.

Psalm 7:12 (NETS - New English Translation of the Septuagint)
God is a righteous judge,
[and strong and patient], one who does not bring on wrath every day.

Van said:
Why did I interpret the verse as saying God is NOT angry or indignant or uttering doom all the time?

From the internet:

In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance.

See YLT of Psalm 7:11

Psalm 7:12 (NETSept)
God is a righteous judge, [and strong and patient], one who does not bring on wrath every day.

Psalm 7:12 (LESept)
God is a righteous judge, and strong and longsuffering, not bringing wrath every single day.

Psalm 7:11 (YLT)
God is a righteous judge, And He is not angry at all times.

The translators of the LXX took the ʾl as a negative particle (not), rather than translating it as a conjunction (and).

Rob

Van · Dec 9, 2025

Deacon said:
Psalm 7:12 (LES - Lexham English Septuagint)
God is a righteous judge,
and strong and longsuffering, not bringing wrath every single day.

Psalm 7:12 (NETS - New English Translation of the Septuagint)
God is a righteous judge,
[and strong and patient], one who does not bring on wrath every day.

Psalm 7:12 (NETSept)
God is a righteous judge, [and strong and patient], one who does not bring on wrath every day.

Psalm 7:12 (LESept)
God is a righteous judge, and strong and longsuffering, not bringing wrath every single day.

Psalm 7:11 (YLT)
God is a righteous judge, And He is not angry at all times.

The translators of the LXX took the ʾl as a negative particle (not), rather than translating it as a conjunction (and).

Rob

Yes, and that view seems correct to me, that is why I presented that view. Note, verse 12, if a person does not repent, thus patience rather than wrath is indicated. I am interpreting Paslm 7:11 through the lens of Romans 9:22.

But I would be remiss if I did not note your response was both accurate and insightful, thanks!

JD731 · Dec 9, 2025

Alan Dale Gross said:
This is the End of Time and the Consummation of the Age, when Jesus Returns.

I am attempting in this thread to show the application of the Psalms, in a prophetic and actual and practical sense, are to be applied to the people of God, Israel, with whom he has a covenant relationship. That people is Israel. In none of the Psalms are we to understand that the church of Jesus Christ is the object of these prophecies. Particular nations are called out in the Psalms only as they relate to Israel. All these Psalms are related to the earth and to the land of Palestine and Jerusalem. These Psalms all emphasize the glory of God in our Lord Jesus Christ and his mighty deeds and infinite wisdom. They look forward to a time when Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem on the throne of David over a converted Israel and righteous nations.

I chose this series of Psalms to illustrate a theme in the Psalms that emphasized the actual coming of Jesus Christ to earth from heaven where he has been sitting on the Throne of the Father waiting for the time when Israel is brought into a national repentance at Jerusalem, which nothing but the white hot fires of persecution could prepare them for.

These Psalms all have one thing in common. There is a prayer to God for deliverance from the hand of the persecutor when it is obvious to all that there is no chance for survival of this nation and people unless God acts now.. The prayer of the Psalmist in all these Psalms to his God, who thus far has been silent until a one sentence answer in Psalm 12, where he says this;

Ps 12:5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.

That's it. One line. One sentence. Now will I arise and deliver you. Guys, Israel as a nation and people is about to perish. Any more delay and it will be over. All the promises of Abraham and the Davidic Covenants are at stake here if this man of Satan prevails and he is able to destroy the city of the Great King and the Temple from which he has in the past, and will in the future, Govern his people Israel.

Why does the Psalmist say what he does here?

Psa 12:56 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

His tone has changed. He is confident now whereas he was in anguish before. The words of God are a comfort to our soul. This now is no longer a prayer, but his assurance that his prayer was heard and the LORD has finally spoken and unlike the boastful and proud and vain words of the oppressor, the words of the LORD are pure words and the people who were facing destruction and elimination, both as a nation and as a people are preserved from "this generation" forever. Obviously, if this prophecy is of future events, the Psalm is not speaking about the words of David, or the words or my generation or the words of your generation but he is speaking about the generation that will prevail over Satan and his host in that generation and who will live to be be the subjects of the Great Savior and King Jesus who delivered them from the sword and hell.

I cannot emphasize enough that we must allow words to have meaning and context in the scriptures.

Ben1445 · Wednesday at 7:01 AM

Van said:
One again I say "A" and this poster suggests I said "B."

A righteous judge would not judge in anger appears to be the idea.

You can make silly claims, not angry equals being satisfied and having no problem till the cows come home. Does not edify.

Does God only judge the righteous or only judge the wicked? Not what the context teaches, God is a righteous judge, of both the wicked and the righreous for He judges the people.

Does a judge only make judgments against the wicked, or do they also judge the just?
If you enter your work at a fair, you expect it to be judged. Is your expectation of that judgement a condemnation or reward. You limit the use of judgment.
Your anger is also not God’s anger. God doesn’t sin. If God is angry, He is so righteously and for a finite being to put a limit on how often God can be angry with sin is to tell God who He is or should be.
If God can manage to hear all prayers at the same time, surely you don’t think it that difficult to have a different countenance toward the wicked than toward the righteous?

Van · Wednesday at 1:44 PM

Ben1445 said:
Does a judge only make judgments against the wicked, or do they also judge the just?
If you enter your work at a fair, you expect it to be judged. Is your expectation of that judgement a condemnation or reward. You limit the use of judgment.
Your anger is also not God’s anger. God doesn’t sin. If God is angry, He is so righteously and for a finite being to put a limit on how often God can be angry with sin is to tell God who He is or should be.
If God can manage to hear all prayers at the same time, surely you don’t think it that difficult to have a different countenance toward the wicked than toward the righteous?

Once again, this post addresses a view point made up by the poster, and does not address the interpretation of Psalm 7:11.

In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance.

God, a righteous judge, is not angry all the time.

JD731 · Wednesday at 2:02 PM

Psalm 3:7
Arise, O Lord; save me, O my God: for thou hast smitten all mine enemies upon the cheek bone; thou hast broken the teeth of the ungodly.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Psalm 7:6
Arise, O Lord, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of mine enemies: and awake for me to the judgment that thou hast commanded.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Psalm 9:19
Arise, O Lord; let not man prevail: let the heathen be judged in thy sight.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Psalm 10:12
Arise, O Lord; O God, lift up thine hand: forget not the humble.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Psalm 17:13
Arise, O Lord, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Psalm 44:23
Awake, why sleepest thou, O Lord? arise, cast us not off for ever.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Psalm 44:26
Arise for our help, and redeem us for thy mercies' sake.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Psalm 68:1
Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
Psalm 74:22
Arise, O God, plead thine own cause: remember how the foolish man reproacheth thee daily.
Psalm 82:8
Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Psalm 12:5
For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the Lord; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Psalm 102:13
Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea, the set time, is come.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

The Great Tribulation, the Day of the LORD, is a world wide judgement effecting all nations but the prophecies are of the scriptures are related to Israel. The "times of the gentiles" is the period of time when the rule of all the earth is gentile rule. This began when there was no longer a throne in Jerusalem with a king sitting on it. One can mark this from the Babylonian captivity of 586 BC. There has not been a king over Israel since those days but Israel has always since been subject to gentile kings . Now in the life time of many of us on here there is once again a nation of Israel but it is not a kingdom. There is still not a king. Jesus Christ will be the next and last legitimate king over Israel and his rule will will end the times of the gentiles. The gentile nations will be subject to King Jesus and Israel will be the chief nation on the earth. They will be the head and not the tail.

:These Psalms above deal with the time when Jesus Christ arises from the Father's throne to take his throne in Jerusalem by ending the times of the gentiles.

LK 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

iN 1948 Israel became a nation with self rule again. But Israel will be dispersed once again from her land under the oppressive hand of the antichrist. The prophecies in Acts 2 above deals with this third dispersion from her land and the LORD arising to come to her aid.

Because the nature of this judgement both the righteous and the wicked are said to be under judgement as according to Ps 7.The LORD is not present on the earth during this time.

Remember the parallels of scriptures.All things of God are in threes.

Van · Thursday at 9:58 AM

In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance.

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction?

Was God angry with the OT Saints He transferred into Abraham's bosom upon their physical death? Or could many objects of wrath be patiently invited so that a few might be chosen?

God, a righteous judge, is not angry all the time.

Ben1445 · Thursday at 8:19 PM

Van said:
In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance.

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction?

Was God angry with the OT Saints He transferred into Abraham's bosom upon their physical death? Or could many objects of wrath be patiently invited so that a few might be chosen?

God, a righteous judge, is not angry all the time.

Way to morph your statement as the conversation goes along.
You must always be right, even when you are wrong.

Van · Friday at 6:56 AM

Ben1445 said:
Way to morph your statement as the conversation goes along.
You must always be right, even when you are wrong.

Yet another personal insult, with nary a note concerning the topic.

In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance.

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction?

Was God angry with the OT Saints He transferred into Abraham's bosom upon their physical death? Or could many objects of wrath be patiently invited so that a few might be chosen?

God, a righteous judge, is not angry all the time.

Alan Dale Gross · Friday at 9:15 PM

Do you have a Bible reference for "a time when Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem on the throne of David over a converted Israel and righteous nations"?

JD731 said:
They look forward to a time when Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem on the throne of David over a converted Israel and righteous nations.

...
Where is it that you think there is a covenant relationship with 'Israel' that hasn't already been fulfilled by Jesus Christ, in the New Testament?

JD731 said:
the application of the Psalms, in a prophetic and actual and practical sense, are to be applied to the people of God, Israel, with whom he has a covenant relationship.

...

JD731 said:
All these Psalms are related to the earth and to the land of Palestine and Jerusalem.

If they are, do we have to add the words 'earth', 'land of Palestine' and 'Jerusalem' to your presumed source and non-proof text, Revelation 20:4?
...

JD731 said:
I chose this series of Psalms to illustrate a theme in the Psalms that emphasized the actual coming of Jesus Christ to earth from heaven where he has been sitting on the Throne of the Father waiting for the time when Israel is brought into a national repentance at Jerusalem, which nothing but the white hot fires of persecution could prepare them for.

Do you have any scripture where Jesus Comes to Earth and Sits on His Father's Throne?, like you say here; "the actual coming of Jesus Christ to earth from heaven where he has been sitting on the Throne of the Father".

I've never seen that.

I ask for scripture, I guess, because there a lot of times you cover a lot of ground without citing any and I'm wondering if you've been had, by just believing your own 'narrative' and/or, in other words, baloney.

Like, where is this taught? "waiting for the time when Israel is brought into a national repentance at Jerusalem."
...

JD731 said:
the Temple from which he has in the past, and will in the future, Govern his people Israel.

So, there is somewhere the Bible says that Jesus will govern His people Israel, in the future?
...

Oh, if we could find an example of this emphasis exercised in good faith.

JD731 said:
I cannot emphasize enough that we must allow words to have meaning and context in the scriptures.

Oh, if we could find an example of this emphasis exercised in good faith.

Ben1445 · Saturday at 8:50 AM

Alan Dale Gross said:
Do you have a Bible reference for "a time when Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem on the throne of David over a converted Israel and righteous nations"?

Rev. 22:16 Jesus is the owner of the throne of David.

In Revelation 20, Jesus rules in the millennium over the nations (mentioned in vs 7) of the earth.
In eternity, with a new earth, I suspect the geography will be different and the inhabitants will all be one in Christ. In that case, nations seems to be a remembrance of the former.

Details of events are nothing to strive about. God will sort out the details.

Alan Dale Gross said:
...
Where is it that you think there is a covenant relationship with 'Israel' that hasn't already been fulfilled by Jesus Christ, in the New Testament?

...

Romans 11:25,30
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Notice the use of the names. And through the chapter, there is a bit that doesn’t doesn’t make sense unless gentiles are gentiles Israel is the Jews. unless you believe that the elect are not secure in their position and have been removed, Israel and their blindness is speaking of the Jews.

Alan Dale Gross said:
If they are, do we have to add the words 'earth', 'land of Palestine' and 'Jerusalem' to your presumed source and non-proof text, Revelation 20:4?
...

In your case, should they be removed?

The nations are deceived by Satan after his release for a season. It follows that the nations existed in verse four that are being deceived in vs 7.

Alan Dale Gross said:
Like, where is this taught? "waiting for the time when Israel is brought into a national repentance at Jerusalem."
...

So, there is somewhere the Bible says that Jesus will govern His people Israel, in the future?
...

If you can explain when Isaiah 60-66 is prophecy past, I might be able to understand your position.

Van · Saturday at 10:19 AM

"In Summary: Psalm 7:11 reveals a dual aspect of God's character: He is a righteous judge who is angry at wickedness daily, yet He is also patient and merciful, not unleashing His full wrath constantly, allowing for repentance." [from the internet]

What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction? [Romans 9:22]

Was God angry with the OT Saints He transferred into Abraham's bosom upon their physical death? Or could many objects of wrath be patiently invited so that a few might be chosen?

God, a righteous judge, is not angry all the time. [Interpretive translation]

JD731 · Saturday at 8:21 PM

Alan Dale Gross said:
Do you have a Bible reference for "a time when Jesus Christ will rule from Jerusalem on the throne of David over a converted Israel and righteous nations"?

Yes!
Ps 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Ps 10:16 The LORD [is] King for ever and ever: the heathen are perished out of his land.
Ps 24:7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
Ps 24:8 Who [is] this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
Ps 24:9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift [them] up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
Ps 24:10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he [is] the King of glory. Selah.
Ps 29:10 The LORD sitteth upon the flood; yea, the LORD sitteth King for ever.
Ps 47:2 For the LORD most high [is] terrible; [he is] a great King over all the earth.
Ps 47:7 For God [is] the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.
Ps 48:2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, [is] mount Zion, [on] the sides of the north, the city of the great King.
Ps 89:18 For the LORD [is] our defence; and the Holy One of Israel [is] our king.
Ps 95:3 For the LORD [is] a great God, and a great King above all gods.
Ps 98:6 With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the LORD, the King.
Ps 149:2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
Pr 25:5 Take away the wicked [from] before the king, and his throne shall be established in righteousness.
Jer 10:10 But the LORD [is] the true God, he [is] the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Mt 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 45:17 [But] Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Ro 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Re 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

I began a thread a while back that dealt with "the day of the LORD" where we find out the exact time our Lord returns to put down gentile rule and to claim his rightful place on the Throne of David. Jesus Christ will actually for the first time since he ascended back to heaven in Acts 1 be revealed to every eye on the earth. It truly is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. I will quote some of the event in Re 19.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which [sword] proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Alan, please do not laud the KJV if you will not believe what it says.

JD731 · Saturday at 9:23 PM

Alan Dale Gross said:
Where is it that you think there is a covenant relationship with 'Israel' that hasn't already been fulfilled by Jesus Christ, in the New Testament?

Yes!

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram [was] seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.
5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother s son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.
6 And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite [was] then in the land.
7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.

Gen 13:14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, [then] shall thy seed also be numbered.
17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.
18 Then Abram removed [his] tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which [is] in Hebron, and built there an altar unto the LORD.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

The Abrahamic covenant has 12 promises but it is one covenant and God swore an oath to keep it.

He 6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. (the seed)
16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation [is] to them an end of all strife.
17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed [it] by an oath:

There is more but this should suffice. Forever means forever and everlasting means everlasting. A consideration of Ga 3.

Ga 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee (in Abraham) shall all nations be blessed. (This is the Abrahamic Covenant concerning the nations and his Seed)

This is the glad tidings and the good news that God has promised that a Seed would come from his family that would save his family as well as the gentile families. The promise is Jesus Christ.

See if you can pick up on the Abraham Covenant here.

Ga 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though [it be] but a man s covenant, yet [if it be] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after (430 years after the Abraham covenant), cannot disannul, that it (the covenant of Law) should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave it (the covenant) to Abraham by promise. (The Covenant of Law changed nothing about the Abrahamic Covenant especially the promise of the Seed which is Jesus Christ)
19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ fulfilled the promise of the Seed and ended the Law of Moses as an operative principle of divine dealing with Israel but it did not fulfill all of the Abrahamic Covenant. Israel will have all her land forever as promised.

Martin Marprelate · Sunday at 8:33 AM

JD731 said:
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Galatians 3:6-9. 'Just as Abraham "Believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness," therefore know that those who are of faith, they are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the Gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." So then , those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.'
Galatians 3:16. Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one. "And to your Seed," who is Christ.' The promises are not to unbelievers, whether Jew or Gentile.
Galatians 4:24-28, 31. ''For these [Sarah and Hagar] are two covenants: the one from MOunt Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar -- for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which is now, and is in bondage with her children, but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. As it is written: "Rejoice, O barren, you who do not bear! Break forth and shout, you who are not in labour! For the desolate has many more children that she who has a husband." Now we, bethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise ....... So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.'
Believers are the children of promise, and the heirs, not of the Jerusalem which is in bondage with her children, but of that Jerusalem which is free, whether they be Jewish, Caucasian, Arab or of any other ethnicity. See Ephesians 2:11-22.

Alan Dale Gross · Sunday at 5:47 PM

JD731 said:
Alan, please do not laud the KJV if you will not believe what it says.

Be my guest.

What does this say and what does it mean about where John was;

JD731 said:
4 And I saw thrones

...
And wherever John saw thrones, he also saw;

JD731 said:
and they sat upon them

...
And to those who sat on thrones, judgment was given to them, where?

JD731 said:
and judgment was given unto them:

...
Where do you think and read logically that tells you where these souls were?

JD731 said:
[I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,

...
These souls had been persecuted unto death because of their belief in the word of God and were now where, after their death, in the Afterlife?

JD731 said:
for the word of God

...
In their lives, they had not taken the Mark of the Beast, and they were now enjoying Ruling on the Throne in Heaven with Jesus, during this present Church Age throughout the New Testament Era, in its entirety.

JD731 said:
which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

They hadn't worshipped the Beast during their lives before dying and going to Heaven to be there with Jesus, Ruling on His Throne with them, for a very lengthy time period which is however finite and will come to an End, even though it has seemed to have lasted 'a thousand years', or better.

JD731 said:
they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Oh yeah. That is where anything Biblically associated with 'a thousand years' takes place and that is exclusively that which is taking place in Heaven, as we speak. None other exists. There aren't 2 or 4 or 5 'thousand year' periods. One. NOW. Its currently happening now and its the only 'thousand year' period spoken of in the Bible. From Heaven. Now.

Just remember JD731 said:
"Alan, please do not laud the KJV if you will not believe what it says."

You quoted it.

JD731 · 2025-12-15T19:13:08-0600

Alan Dale Gross said:
Do you have any scripture where Jesus Comes to Earth and Sits on His Father's Throne?, like you say here; "the actual coming of Jesus Christ to earth from heaven where he has been sitting on the Throne of the Father".

Yes, but first, a correction. I did not say Jesus comes to earth and sits on the Father's throne. I said Jesus is sitting on the Father's throne now, since his ascension.

Mt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Said to his 12 apostles during his last week before his crucifixion)

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; (spoken of Jesus who is presently in his high Priest office at the Father's right hand.

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Re 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his (David's) throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

<How long David>

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let [him] go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did [it], as [did] also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Who here believes heaven needs restitution?

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
<future tense> it has never happened in Israel yet.

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Newsflash! They did not repent and get converted every one of them.

Alan, you are too smart to allow corrupt men to manipulate your mind and lead you into a false religious system. They have convinced you to study their words rather than the KJV. What difference does it make which Bible you like if you will not believe common language.

Here is a parable of Jesus going to heaven to receive a kingdom and then coming back to rule.

Lu 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they (his disciples) thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. (why would they have thought that)
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this [man] to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

How does he handle those who refused his rule?

26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.
28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.

JD731 · 2025-12-15T20:04:49-0600

Alan Dale Gross said:
I've never seen that.

I ask for scripture, I guess, because there a lot of times you cover a lot of ground without citing any and I'm wondering if you've been had, by just believing your own 'narrative' and/or, in other words, baloney.

Like, where is this taught? "waiting for the time when Israel is brought into a national repentance at Jerusalem."
...

Ac 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Ac 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day. (9 AM)

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
(the Spirit had just been poured out here at Pentecost, fulfilling this prophecy)

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
There is going to be time for this untoward generation who killed the Messiah to find salvation UNTIL the great and notable day of the LORD come

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

God has the door of salvation open to this people and he will save every one of them who will come to him through Christ but when the day of the LORD comes it will be too late. That is a day of darkness and fear and God in any form is not present. It is the last 3 1/2 years of the 7 years of tribulation, called Jacob's trouble and the great day of the LORD when the earth will be purged of all her rebels. The remainder of this one thousand year day will be full of light with no darkness until the end of it.

Meditate on this and understand we do not have much more time to get it right. We are closer to the end than you think.
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Peter, by the Spirit, is giving a prophecy taken from Joel, the theme of his prophecy being "the day of the LORD." The "last days" as it pertains to prophecy in the scriptures is all three of the 1000 year days, as God counts days, after the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Psalm 7:11

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member