Christian Nationalism

Does the SBC back the tenets of Project 2025? Please list several reasons. I’m a member of an SBC church, but really don’t understand Christian Nationalism‘s end game.

nggator said:

Does the SBC back the tenets of Project 2025? Please list several reasons. I’m a member of an SBC church, but really don’t understand Christian Nationalism‘s end game.

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What is Christian Nationalism?

Let me say it this way…

Since there is no organization that is the Christian Nationalist Organization, or something like that, who are you asking about? How is anyone supposed to answer for an arbitrarily vague group of people?

also, what are the tenets of Project 2025 that are concerning to you?
I haven’t read it yet, (well, I got to page 4 of 900+ pages. Yeah, I quit reading before the table of contents)

I am just curious about how much of it you have read and why you don’t seem to like it.

If you’re serious, I will put some time into it. I don’t mean I’ll get through all 900 pages any time soon but I’ll give it a genuine page flip peruse.
But first I’ll tell you that I’m not Southern Baptist, so anything I say is completely my own personal opinion and shouldn’t be taken as an answer for the SBC in any way.

nggator said:

I’m a member of an SBC church, but really don’t understand Christian Nationalism‘s end game.

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You have no chance of understanding any "end game" if you don't know what it is. Here is a good place to start:
Al Mohler is a Southern Baptist and I listen to his daily podcast and highly respect him. I think he is very accurate in his article. I don't know what Project 2025 is so I can't help you there.

A more structured and detailed explanation, which I also think is well done and accurate is here:
Frankly, I'm a little bit suspect of a poster who is a site supporter and had been on here for almost 10 years and has never posted on any subject until now.

DaveXR650 said:

A more structured and detailed explanation, which I also think is well done and accurate is here:

FAQs on Christian Nationalism | Blog & Mablog

Sharing Options 1. What is Christian Nationalism? Christian Nationalism is the view that secularism is a hollow construct, now plainly revealed to be bankrupt. Additionally, CN is the belief that human societies require a transcendent anchor to hold everything together, and that this...

dougwils.com

Frankly, I'm a little bit suspect of a poster who is a site supporter and had been on here for almost 10 years and has never posted on any subject until now.

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One doesn’t have to post previously to ask a question now. Just trying to understand.
It does seem to me that if one is a Baptist and has no clue about Christian Nationalism and Project 2025, then there is some type of disconnect. Now I do not have a one sentence definition of either, but I have studied enough to understand the thought that the US is to be a Christian nation only and another is basically suppression of women’s rights. Just 2 controversial points.
Now if I’m going to get hammered over this, it’s goodnight for me. (By the way, this might be why I don’t post).

nggator said:

One doesn’t have to post previously to ask a question now. Just trying to understand.
It does seem to me that if one is a Baptist and has no clue about Christian Nationalism and Project 2025, then there is some type of disconnect. Now I do not have a one sentence definition of either, but I have studied enough to understand the thought that the US is to be a Christian nation only and another is basically suppression of women’s rights. Just 2 controversial points.
Now if I’m going to get hammered over this, it’s goodnight for me. (By the way, this might be why I don’t post).

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Sorry you believe you were being personally disparaged. Welcome to my world.

Many of us see through a glass darkly, we are right or close to right on some biblical doctrines, but may miss the mark on others.

Perhaps you could post two or three objectionable tenets of Project 2025, quoting the document, and then we could discuss whether they are well supported in scripture?

nggator said:

One doesn’t have to post previously to ask a question now. Just trying to understand.
It does seem to me that if one is a Baptist and has no clue about Christian Nationalism and Project 2025, then there is some type of disconnect.

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I guess Project 2025 is from the Heritage Foundation. I googled it. That's how I know. I am somewhat familiar with the Heritage Foundation. It's a think tank, for the most part classic conservative and pro business, along the lines of National Review, if you are familiar with that. I would think that the Heritage Foundation and conservative Baptists, whether Southern Baptist Convention members or not, would be fellow travelers for the most part when it comes to politics. But I don't think the Southern Baptist Convention had anything to do with the development of the document directly.

Sounds to me like it might match up to Laodicean doctrine. I certainly don't find it to resemble the Philadelphia church nor adhere to Pre-trib doctrine, which much of the SBC used to be.

I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

nggator said:

One doesn’t have to post previously to ask a question now. Just trying to understand.
It does seem to me that if one is a Baptist and has no clue about Christian Nationalism and Project 2025, then there is some type of disconnect. Now I do not have a one sentence definition of either, but I have studied enough to understand the thought that the US is to be a Christian nation only and another is basically suppression of women’s rights. Just 2 controversial points.
Now if I’m going to get hammered over this, it’s goodnight for me. (By the way, this might be why I don’t post).

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being a nation governed by principles of biblical origin is commendable. I would hope you think so also.
As far as suppression of women’s rights, where do they say that they are taking away, or suppressing women’s rights?
Again I ask where do they say it or even how do they do it, not who says it about them or thinks it about them?

This seems to have a bit of relevance.
Here is a “pastor” who had to go to Congress to figure out about the Bible.

I don’t know anything about the commentary giver. I just ran across this. Some good points in there.

Ben1445 said:

This seems to have a bit of relevance.
Here is a “pastor” who had to go to Congress to figure out about the Bible.

I don’t know anything about the commentary giver. I just ran across this. Some good points in there.

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Todd Friel's a good guy. In general, what I find in these discussions is illustrated by listening to the above two things I put up earlier, where you have top unabashed pro-Christian Nationalists speaking, and then go listen to David French, who is against it but does a good job of giving definitions. Bottom line is that no one really can define it and for good reason. There are so many ideas of what it is that using it as a label is useless. Except for one area. That is, if you can create enough of a visceral abhorrence in folks every time the term is mentioned then it has tremendous value in that you can damage anyone who you either want to apply the term to - or even better, it they embrace the term, even though what they mean is nothing like the image you have created.

You can sense this in the OP. He obviously lacks knowledge of Project 2025, the Heritage Foundation, and their relationship to the SBC, yet assumes he's is getting "hammered" and finds it unbelievable that a Baptist would not be familiar with Christian Nationalism, even though no one seems to be able to define it. Now he gets it honest. Google "Project 2025" yourself and read what some of the organizations say about it. You would think it is a revised version of Mein Kampf.

DaveXR650 said:

Todd Friel's a good guy.

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If he was the guy heading up the link, I didn't warm to him. He was just one long sneer.
I think the lady pastor might have done better with Luke 10:25-29 and Gal. 2:10, but let that pass.
My view is that instead of preparing what we may think of as Christian political manifestos, we will do better to get the Gospel out there. We need more Christians, and if the Lord gives them to us, they will include more politicians, or at least, secular politicians will realise that they have to take Christians into account. Trying to impose Christianity upon a secular nation is doomed IMO to falure.

Martin Marprelate said:

Trying to impose Christianity upon a secular nation is doomed IMO to falure.

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But Muslims are imposing Islam upon secular nations and having great success.

So religious values can become a major part of a nation, even when many of the people have been led down an irreligious path of hedonism, materialism, and atheism.

If Muslims are able to convert a secular society to Sharia law and Islamic principles, why should we think it’s hopeless for Christianity to influence our nation? Christian political manifestos may be one way to specify how life can conform to the teachings of Jesus and how government policies can align with biblical tenets.

Christians are still the majority. Approximately 62% of U.S. adults identify as Christian, according to Pew Research Center's 2023-24 Religious Landscape Study, which indicates a stabilization in the population share after years of decline.

While down from 78% in 2007, the Christian share has remained relatively steady between 60% and 64% since 2019. Protestants (40%) and Catholics (19%) make up the largest subgroups.

Martin Marprelate said:

My view is that instead of preparing what we may think of as Christian political manifestos, we will do better to get the Gospel out there.

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Martin. I might be wrong but I think Project 2025 was put out by the Heritage Foundation and is not a product of the Southern Baptist Convention. That's what I was trying to explain. These foundations all put out documents, or wish lists, or policy papers to explain their overall goals. I have not studied the document but looked it over, quickly, and found it is mostly about economic, and policy issues. I don't know if Project 2025 can properly be described as "Christian", but I guess you could call it a manifesto.

Martin Marprelate said:

We need more Christians, and if the Lord gives them to us, they will include more politicians, or at least, secular politicians will realise that they have to take Christians into account.

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This is exactly what was happening in the included video - a Christian politician was debating with a liberal clergyman (clergywoman?), brought in as an expert on religion. Why is it permissible to do that if the person takes a liberal position but somehow wrong if they take a conservative position as the Congressman did? The prevailing belief in our current political climate on this side of the pond is that everyone is entitled to a voice on policy - unless their opinion was derived from a Christian influence. In which case they must be dismissed or have their opinion not only not taken into account, but derided openly.

Martin Marprelate said:

Trying to impose Christianity upon a secular nation is doomed IMO to falure.

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Agreed. I would just say that politics by definition is going to impose upon fellow citizens. And I think that Christians should have just as much of a voice in this as others. A huge part of my own political view involves restraint whenever possible, and maximum freedom with minimum government involvement. That lady clergyman believes that her role as a Christian is to make others give generously and bring in sufficient immigrants to displace and destroy the local culture while celebrating this as true Christianity. This was brought out as the video unfolded. Welcome to American style politics.

Ascetic X said:

But Muslims are imposing Islam upon secular nations and having great success.

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Al Mohler has said, and I agree with him, that Muslims in control, or even in a significant minority greatly affect society and culture in ways that are incompatible with our way of life.

Ascetic X said:

But Muslims are imposing Islam upon secular nations and having great success.

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I'm not sure they are. I read that when the Shah was booted out of Iran, there were only about 250 Christians in the country. Today, apparently, there are in excess of a million. These people have come to Christ in the teeth of the most vicious persecution.
The N.T. does not tell us to try and take over government; it tells us to preach the Gospel. I think that's what we should do.

At our church in the UK, we steer very clear of politics. When the referendum about leaving the UK was taking place, no one in the church knew where I or our pastor stood on the matter. Personally, I am not in favour (to put it mildly!) of the current UK government, but that does not stop me from praying publicly for the Prime Minister and Parliament according to 1 Timothy 2:1-3, asking that God will so lead it that we may 'lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.' Keir Starmer is an atheist, but Proverbs 21:1 applies.

Martin Marprelate said:

I'm not sure they are. I read that when the Shah was booted out of Iran, there were only about 250 Christians in the country. Today, apparently, there are in excess of a million. These people have come to Christ in the teeth of the most vicious persecution.
The N.T. does not tell us to try and take over government; it tells us to preach the Gospel. I think that's what we should do.

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Islamic states use Islamic law to define every area of government, including the Constitution. The major Islamic states are Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Mauritania, and Yemen.

In addition, there are 57 member states in the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), often referred to as "57 Muslim countries," though not all are strictly Muslim-majority nations, with some having significant Muslim populations or being included for political/cultural reasons. These nations collectively represent a large portion of the Islamic world, with a combined population exceeding 1.8 billion.

Christianity cannot allow itself to become socially and politically irrelevant. Christians can serve in government, education, and civil policy making positions.

We proclaim the gospel, obey Jesus, and influence the nation to conform to Christian values. Thus, we oppose abortion, gay marriage, transgender, gambling, substance abuse, gluttony, slavery, sexism, racism, hedonism, evolution, mammonism, materialism, warmongering, bullying, adultery, fornication, and other practices. We cause them to be illegal, unacceptable, or more difficult to practice.