• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Beginning of the Church of Jesus Christ

V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
37818 said:
Pentecost is when the baptism of the Spirit is typically believed to have occurred.

The major disagreement is when the Spirit was given as the Helper occurred.
Pentecost or at John 20:21-23, Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
Click to expand...
The general assembly's first member was the thief on the cross.l But among those physically still alive the indwelling started at Pentecost.

I already addressed that John 20:22 was emblematic of the indwelling that would occur to enable the Apostles to complete their mission.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
.
Van said:
The general assembly's first member was the thief on the cross.l But among those physically still alive the indwelling started at Pentecost.

I already addressed that John 20:22 was emblematic of the indwelling that would occur to enable the Apostles to complete their mission.
Click to expand...
No.
After John the Baptist, and then two of his followers.
John 1:37, And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
percho said:
The cornerstone was laid when God the Father raised the Son out of the dead and renewing of Holy Spirit. The Son then poured forth that Holy Spirit, first to the apostles then others were added.

IMHO
Click to expand...
Thank you Percho, for your comments and thank you for your attention to the words of scripture and understanding that believing them and using reason and logic to know the doctrines of the faith is imperative in understanding them. Having said that, I believe this doctrine is made simple by believing.

Consider this:

18 And he (Jesus) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

I have underlined what few people in this world will believe. They will not believe that the resurrection of Jesus Christ is a birth, even when you cannot make that statement say anything else. So, logically speaking with reason, his resurrection from the dead tells us that he being firstmembers of the church are dependent on this resurrection.

It is important to note that we learn two things here.
1) Jesus is the firstborn son of God from the dead at his resurrection
2) This event, being resurrected from the dead and being the firstborn makes him head of the church, who are all born again, and gives him the preeminence in the family.

It is important to note that he is not the firstborn son of God. That is not what is said. He is firstborn son of God from the dead never to die again.
Jesus Christ was born of the flesh and died.
Logic! The church had it's beginning the same time as that Jesus rose from the dead.

Logic and reason =If Jesus Christ is the firstborn son of God from the dead and the head of the church because of the birth, then one can consider that all members of the church are born again, making them sons of God because of a new birth.

We know Jesus Christ lived on earth before he died and rose again from the dead. He was not the church at that time. If he were then this verse, Col 1:18, would make no sense.

I am out of time now but have more to say on this line of reasoning and will come back later with additional information of the subject..
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
37818 said:
.
No.
After John the Baptist, and then two of his followers.
John 1:37, And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
Click to expand...
That says nothing concerning being born anew before Jesus died. Jesus is choosing His disciples, they are converting from their expectation of a coming Messiah, to believing Jesus is the Messiah!
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Van said:
That says nothing concerning being born anew before Jesus died. Jesus is choosing His disciples, they are converting from their expectation of a coming Messiah, to believing Jesus is the Messiah!
Click to expand...
Before the post resurrection Pentecost, only John the Baptist was already indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:15, For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Before the post resurrection Pentecost, only John the Baptist was already indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:15, For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Click to expand...
Filled with the Holy Spirit is not the same thing as being eternally indwelt with the Holy Spirit. If John the Baptist could have been indwelt with the Spirit, so could others. Why do you think Jesus had to die? Thnk!
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
.
JD731 said:
Why do you think Jesus had to die?
Click to expand...
To be the propitiation. Romans 3:24-26, Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
37818 said:
Before the post resurrection Pentecost, only John the Baptist was already indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:15, For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Click to expand...
Here you claim to be "filled with the Holy Spirit" means to be indwelt. However just as the OT saints had to wait to be made perfect, John the Baptist was NOT made perfect and therefore NOT indwelt until after Christ died. He went to Abraham's bosom when He died. No one was washed with the blood of the Lamb before the Lamb shed His blood. Time travel theology is fiction. No one was indwelt until they were made perfect, washed in His blood. When we undergo the washing of regeneration, we are born anew, as a spiritual child of God, and then, and only then, we are indwelt, sealed in Christ with a pledge of our bodily redemption at Christ's second coming. The gospel of Christ.
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Here you claim to be "filled with the Holy Spirit" means to be indwelt. However just as the OT saints had to wait to be made perfect, John the Baptist was NOT made perfect and therefore NOT indwelt until after Christ died. He went to Abraham's bosom when He died. No one was washed with the blood of the Lamb before the Lamb shed His blood. Time travel theology is fiction. No one was indwelt until they were made perfect, washed in His blood. When we undergo the washing of regeneration, we are born anew, as a spiritual child of God, and then, and only then, we are indwelt, sealed in Christ with a pledge of our bodily redemption at Christ's second coming. The gospel of Christ.
Click to expand...
John was filled with the Spirit while in his mothers womb, as being the prophesied one to come and go before the Lord
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
JesusFan said:
John was filled with the Spirit while in his mothers womb, as being the prophesied one to come and go before the Lord
Click to expand...
LOL, that is NOT the issue. Does the verse say John was indwelt with the Holy Spirit as all born anew believers are indwelt?
 
Alan Dale Gross

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
I see what's going on. You were/ are thinking of 'the church' as meaning the moment when two dispensations change their name from one to the other, and so it would be the division called "the Gospel"(?).

As far as that benchmark, I see where the Lord said,

"The Law and the Prophets were until John:
since that time the Kingdom of God is Preached, and every man presseth into it."

Then, I see the word 'church' that you have in the following posts and was using it to refer to all the saved folks in the New Testament Era. Those I call the Kingdom of God that every saved soul is born into, at the time of their New Birth.

I see the word 'church' in the Bible as being 'what it meant to everyone then' and that was 'an organized, called out assembly that is always local and self-governed', that Jesus Divinely Founded and Continued to build, or edify, as it says in Matthew 16:18;

"And I Say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,
and upon This Rock I Will Build My Church;
and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it."

"And I Say also unto thee,
That thou art Peter (in the Greek his name means a small stone),

then the word Jesus uses to refer to Himself as "this Rock", means a huge, massive slab of foundation rock, )"and upon This Rock" (so, it is a play on words in the Greek ('you're a small pebble and I Am a massive boulder, Jesus is saying.)

In other words, "I Will Build My Church; (Jesus' Divinely Designed and Originated kind of called out assembly, which were made up of Scripturally baptized saved souls, who were to carry out the Divine Ordinances, the Great Commission, and Worship God, not forsaking the assembling of themselves together".

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is;
but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the Day approaching." Hebrews 10:25.

And Jesus Promised His Ordained assembly of the Apostles there listening to Him that the influence of Satan was never going to completely overrun all of His various church bodies spread around the globe and spread over the centuries, where He said, "the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it."

Jesus is at that time speaking to His assembled church body that He Originated, using the Greek word for a called assembly, and in this case He had Gathered His closest followers who He had called out to serve Him as what He then called "my church", meaning Jesus' Own type of called out assembly that He was "Building", by Giving His Apostles the Word of God and the Gospel and the Divine Ordnances.

Jesus began "Building" For His version of what a church or local body of specific people where to be comprised of in His case, Jesus Chose those men who had been baptized by the Authority of God by the one man who had, because he was Sent by God to baptize, and that was John the Baptist.

So, when Jesus called the Apostles together, after He had chosen them, they assembled in an official Organized corporate entity, Jesus church assemble there in Jerusalem, with Jesus as their Head.

That is exactly what is said and meant, in I Corinthians 12:28;

"And God hath Set some in the church, first Apostles,
secondarily Prophets, thirdly Teachers, after that Miracles,
then Gifts of Healings, Helps, Governments, Diversities of Tongues."

That is where the Bible says Jesus began His kind of churches.


JD731 said:
I am interested in when Jesus founded his church and I see you are too. But you did not say when he founded it in your view.
Click to expand...

JD731 said:
You have not weighed in yet. When did the church of Jesus Christ have it's beginning, according to you?
Click to expand...
 
P

percho

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
JD731 said:
Filled with the Holy Spirit is not the same thing as being eternally indwelt with the Holy Spirit. If John the Baptist could have been indwelt with the Spirit, so could others. Why do you think Jesus had to die? Thnk!
Click to expand...
Bingo, consider the following;

“He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing[fn] in Him would receive; for the Holy[fn] Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
 
P

percho

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
JD731 said:
Thank you Percho, for your comments and thank you for your attention to the words of scripture and understanding that believing them and using reason and logic to know the doctrines of the faith is imperative in understanding them. Having said that, I believe this doctrine is made simple by believing.

Consider this:

18 And he (Jesus) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

I have underlined what few people in this world will believe. They will not believe that the resurrection of Jesus Christ is a birth, even when you cannot make that statement say anything else. So, logically speaking with reason, his resurrection from the dead tells us that he being firstmembers of the church are dependent on this resurrection.

It is important to note that we learn two things here.
1) Jesus is the firstborn son of God from the dead at his resurrection
2) This event, being resurrected from the dead and being the firstborn makes him head of the church, who are all born again, and gives him the preeminence in the family.

It is important to note that he is not the firstborn son of God. That is not what is said. He is firstborn son of God from the dead never to die again.
Jesus Christ was born of the flesh and died.
Logic! The church had it's beginning the same time as that Jesus rose from the dead.

Logic and reason =If Jesus Christ is the firstborn son of God from the dead and the head of the church because of the birth, then one can consider that all members of the church are born again, making them sons of God because of a new birth.

We know Jesus Christ lived on earth before he died and rose again from the dead. He was not the church at that time. If he were then this verse, Col 1:18, would make no sense.

I am out of time now but have more to say on this line of reasoning and will come back later with additional information of the subject..
Click to expand...
I liked yet have some thoughts/questions.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13

Does the indwelling of the Holy Spirit baptized us into the body of Christ, the church, Jerusalem above, Mt. Zion?

Does that then put us into being in the following state?
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Also in the following state?
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the first-fruit of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Is the redemption of our body also seen in the following?
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Also?
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Is it at the coming of Jesus when he changes our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, when we are conformed it the image of his Son?

Is that when we are truly born again by the Spirit in us? Consider also. Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Is that the manifestation of the sons of God?

Does Jerusalem above, Zion ,at the coming of the Lord. give birth into the kingdom of God? Is the kingdom born out of the church?
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
Alan Dale Gross said:
I see what's going on. You were/ are thinking of 'the church' as meaning the moment when two dispensations change their name from one to the other, and so it would be the division called "the Gospel"(?).

As far as that benchmark, I see where the Lord said,

"The Law and the Prophets were until John:
since that time the Kingdom of God is Preached, and every man presseth into it."

Then, I see the word 'church' that you have in the following posts and was using it to refer to all the saved folks in the New Testament Era. Those I call the Kingdom of God that every saved soul is born into, at the time of their New Birth.

I see the word 'church' in the Bible as being 'what it meant to everyone then' and that was 'an organized, called out assembly that is always local and self-governed', that Jesus Divinely Founded and Continued to build, or edify, as it says in Matthew 16:18;

"And I Say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,
and upon This Rock I Will Build My Church;
and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it."

"And I Say also unto thee,
That thou art Peter (in the Greek his name means a small stone),

then the word Jesus uses to refer to Himself as "this Rock", means a huge, massive slab of foundation rock, )"and upon This Rock" (so, it is a play on words in the Greek ('you're a small pebble and I Am a massive boulder, Jesus is saying.)

In other words, "I Will Build My Church; (Jesus' Divinely Designed and Originated kind of called out assembly, which were made up of Scripturally baptized saved souls, who were to carry out the Divine Ordinances, the Great Commission, and Worship God, not forsaking the assembling of themselves together".

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is;
but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the Day approaching." Hebrews 10:25.

And Jesus Promised His Ordained assembly of the Apostles there listening to Him that the influence of Satan was never going to completely overrun all of His various church bodies spread around the globe and spread over the centuries, where He said, "the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it."

Jesus is at that time speaking to His assembled church body that He Originated, using the Greek word for a called assembly, and in this case He had Gathered His closest followers who He had called out to serve Him as what He then called "my church", meaning Jesus' Own type of called out assembly that He was "Building", by Giving His Apostles the Word of God and the Gospel and the Divine Ordnances.

Jesus began "Building" For His version of what a church or local body of specific people where to be comprised of in His case, Jesus Chose those men who had been baptized by the Authority of God by the one man who had, because he was Sent by God to baptize, and that was John the Baptist.

So, when Jesus called the Apostles together, after He had chosen them, they assembled in an official Organized corporate entity, Jesus church assemble there in Jerusalem, with Jesus as their Head.

That is exactly what is said and meant, in I Corinthians 12:28;

"And God hath Set some in the church, first Apostles,
secondarily Prophets, thirdly Teachers, after that Miracles,
then Gifts of Healings, Helps, Governments, Diversities of Tongues."

That is where the Bible says Jesus began His kind of churches.
Click to expand...

Alan, John the Baptist was not a Christian. He baptized Israel. There was no church during his days of ministry. The Christian faith is founded upon the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That was an event in history post John the Baptist. Your theology is both illogical and unreasonable and proves you follow the counsel of your teachers and not the scriptures. I speak as a friend and encourage you to reexamine what you have been told. Ask yourself why you think it is proper to teach something contrary to a passage that says exactly when the church of Jesus Christ had it's beginning.

Here it is again.

Colossians 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.​


Your teaching says this is not true.
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
Continuing to advance the subject of the op, the beginning of the church of Jesus Christ, I must say it is disappointing to see so many struggle with this doctrine. Is anyone reading the scriptures? I have quoted Col 1:18 that is clear about the beginning of the church. There is more in this verse that people refuse to believe. Like Jesus being the firstborn son of God in the family. The firstborn in the economy of God always gets a double portion of the inheritance. But God has made all who are born into this family joint heirs with Jesus Christ. All the heirs share equally in the inheritance and they are all as one son. This is at least part of what it means to be "in Christ."

There is a true saying about the Christian faith. Either a man is born once and dies twice or he is born twice and dies once. There is that which is called the second death. That will be experienced by all who have not experienced the second birth. Jesus said in John 3, "ye must be born again."

I would like to say that Col 1:18 is not the only place in the scripture that says Jesus has two births, a physical birth at Bethlehem and a second birth at his resurrection from the dead. I would like to prove this with the next two or three paragraphs. Non Bible believers will not believe this because I will be quoting the Bible saying it.

First of all I will quote Psa 2. Read it here;

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

(most people do not know this but "the people" is a designation for the chosen people of God, the nation of Israel).

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers (of Israel) take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
When the Lord speaks of his wrath, he is speaking of the "day of the Lord" when he will pour out his wrath in the great tribulation for 1260 days.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
This is the result when the wrath is over:

Here is what I am getting to. God says here that he has begotten his son. Does he mean at Bethlehem, although it could truthfully be said that he did. But the scriptures will clarify it.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter s vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Note: this is the second Psalm. It is appropriate that this Psalm is 12 verses long because the number 12 is used by God for his perfect government.

One thousand years later Paul the apostle will quote this psalm in a sermon to some Jews on his way preaching on his first missionary journey. I will quote an excerpt and trust the reader to check the context. Acts 13:

26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
30 But God raised him from the dead:
31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

Who will believe this second Psalm is speaking of the second birth of Jesus?

Consider this verse in Romans 1, an epistle that is an outline of the seven dispensations if there ever was one.

Here is what Paul said about Jesus Christ:

Ro 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Here it comes, what I want you to see:

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

The spirit of holiness is the Holy Spirit.

5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ was born twice and died once according to the scriptures. Those among us who do not believe it please tell us why.
 
Alan Dale Gross

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
JD731 said:
Your teaching says this is not true.
Click to expand...
JD731 said:
Ask yourself why you think it is proper to teach something contrary to a passage that says exactly when the church of Jesus Christ had it's beginning.
Click to expand...
You think Colossians 1:18 has something
"that says exactly when the church of Jesus Christ had it's beginning"?

That's bizarre.

This passage has its emphasis on The Supremacy of Christ.

12; "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath Made us Meet
to be Partakers of the Inheritance of the saints in Light:

13; "Who hath Delivered us from the Power of Darkness,
and hath Translated us into the Kingdom of His Dear Son:

14; "In Whom we have Redemption through His Blood,
even the Forgiveness of sins:"

15; "Who is the Image of the Invisible God, the Firstborn of every Creature:"
"not the first of the Creation, or the first Creature God Made; because all things in Colossians 1:16, next, are said to be Created by Him, and therefore He Himself can never be a Creature;

"nor is He the first in the New Creation, because the Apostle in the context is speaking of the Old Creation, and not the New:...so it may be understood of Christ, as the King, Lord, and Governor of all Creatures;

"being God's Firstborn, He is Heir of all things, the Right of Government belongs to Him;

"He is Higher than the kings of the Earth, or the Angels in Heaven, the Highest Rank of Creatures, being the Creator and Upholder of all, as the following words show;

"so the Jews make the word "firstborn" to be synonymous with the word "king", and explain it by , "a great one", and "a prince" (h); see Psalm 89:27.


16; "For by Him were all things Created, that are in Heaven,
and that are in Earth, visible and invisible, whether they be Thrones,
or Dominions, or Principalities, or Powers:
all things were Created by Him, and for Him:"

17; "And He is Before all things, and by Him all things Consist.
JD731 said:
Colossians 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body
Click to expand...
Jesus is the Head of all His Kind of churches, spoken in the same way as, "the husband is the head of the wife", in Ephesians 5:23, whereas, if we dropped the definite article "the", for both married members, it would read, "husbands are the head of wives".

It is just using a generic form of the words "the body", which again might read,
"He is the Head of bodies" and either way is perfectly understandable and fine to say and mean the same thing, if we drop the definite article and "body" becomes a plural.

I Corinthians 12:12; "For as the body is one, and hath many members,
and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body",

as in the next verse, Jews and Gentiles are both Saved by One Spirit
as he says "so also is Christ," where Christ is One and Saved souls are one in Christ.

13; "For by One Spirit", (the same as in 1:2 where it says
"no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed",
in other words "by One Spirit", the Spirit Leads individual Saved souls to be baptized into certain church bodies, the way it is the Holy Spirit's Duty, as the Administrator of the Lord's churches, as we see from 1:18; below;
"But now hath God Set the members every one of them in the body,
(as members in particular) "as it hath Pleased Him."

as God's children are Saved they are Led by the Holy Spirit
and "by One Spirit are we all baptized", by water

"into one body", (one church body like the one there in Collosse,)
"whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free;
and have been all Made to Drink into One Spirit", where Jews and Gentiles are both Saved by the Holy Spirit, they may also be Led by the Holy Spirit to join one of Jesus' kind of New Testament churches and are placed into membership, by the Lord's Divine Ordinance of Scriptural baptism.

14; "For the body is not one member, but many."

18; "But now hath God set (by the Holy Spirit)
the members every one of them in the body, (their local church body)
as it hath Pleased Him.

19; "And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20; "But now are they many members, yet but one body."

22; "Nay, much more those members of the body,
("the body of Christ, and members in particular", from I Corinthians 12:27, below,)
"which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:"

23; "And those members of the body,
("the body of Christ, and members in particular", from I Corinthians 12:27, below,)
"which we think to be less honourable,
upon these we bestow more abundant honour;
and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness."

24; "For our comely parts have no need:
but God hath Tempered (by having the Holy Spirit Led the members into;)
"the body together",
("the body of Christ, and members in particular", from I Corinthins 12:27, below,)
"having Given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:"

Con't:
 
Alan Dale Gross

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
25; "That there should be no schism in the body;
("the body of Christ, and members in particular", from I Corinthins 12:27, below,)
"but that the members should have the same care one for another."

26; "And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it;
or one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it."
(as members of Colosse church of the Lord Jesus Christ, which he says is
"the body of Christ, and members in particular", (from I Corinthins 12:27, below,)

Then, Paul explains explicitly what he has been talking about that a "body" is;
27; "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."
locally there in Colosse.

JD731 said:
18 And he is the head of the body, the church:
Click to expand...
1:18a; "And He is the Head of the body, the church:"
In the Bible a New Testament "church", or church "body" of Jesus Christ that He Said He "built" is always speaking of an organized called out assembly of baptized believers who have been covenanted together as a specific local congregation, with "members in particular", who are under the Rule of the New Testament, with the Lawgiver of the New Testament as the Head of each local body under His Lordship, to carry out the Great Commission and sustain His Divine Ordinances.

In this case, Paul is saying, Jesus is the Head
of that local church body of saints there in Colosse who the Bible says are
"the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse," Colossians 1:2.

So, the "Who" here next is Jesus Christ;
1:18b; "Who is the Beginning, the Firstborn from the dead;"
"This designs Jesus Being the First Cause of all things;
"Jesus is the Beginning of the Creation of God; the Efficient Cause of all Created Beings;
"Jesus is the One Who Began His churches, as the One Who Divinely, Instituted, Founded, and Organized His churches,
each of which He is her Head; as Eve was from Adam, so are His churches from Christ as their Head;

However, this is no indication of when Jesus Founded His church.

Jesus Founded His churches when He assembled the baptized Disciples together as a unit, meeting together as His first church, as the Bible says, "And God hath Set some in the church, first Apostles, secondarily Prophets, thirdly Teachers, after that Miracles, then Gifts of Healings, Helps, Governments, Diversities of tongues." I Corinthians 12:28.

"the Firstborn from the dead"; the First that Rose from the dead by His Own Power, and to an Immortal Life;
because, though others were Raised before Him, and by Him, yet not to a State of Immortality;
the Path of Life, to an Immortal Life, was first shown to Him as man;
and Who also is the Firstfruits of them that sleep, and so the Pledge and Earnest of the Future Resurrection of the saints;
and is both the Efficient and Exemplary Cause of it;
the Resurrection of the dead Will be by Him
as God the Son, the Second Person of the Triune Godhead, Who is God, and According to His Own, as man:


1:18c; "that in all things He might have the Preeminence," under the Lordship of Jesus Christ,

1:24; "Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you,
and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh
for His body's sake, which is the church:"

or "for Jesus' bodies' sake, which is His churches."

In other words, for the sake of Jesus' kind of local assembled, independent, and self-ruling "bodies"
that He Originated as what He Called, "My church".

And any time you see Jesus' kind of New Testament churches, they are always local assembled, independent, and self-ruling "bodies", of baptized believers united together as members in particular Worshipping God "in Spirit and Truth", John 4:24,

"in the House of God, which is the church of the Living God, the Pillar and Ground of the Truth" I Timothy 3:15,

and "In whom ye also are Builded Together for an Habitation of God through the Spirit," Ephesians 2:22.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top