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Romans 8:35 Translation Ambiguity

Van

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Romans 8:35 (NASB) Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

I expect many of us have an opinion of what this verse is saying. However, because it
contains the ambiguous “love of Christ” the commentators differ greatly as to its intended message.

Lets consider our options and see what shakes out! “Who,” the first word in our verse, is the choice of almost all translations, however a few, at least two, go with “what.” One translation flips the word order to read, “Can anything.” The proposed possibilities listed in the next sentence are all things, things that happen to us and could conceivably cause us to cease our love for Christ. So lets stick with essentially all the translations, i.e. who, because that allows us to consider our own effort to separate from the love of Christ.

“Will separate” points to a future separation, thus indicating a current union with the love of Christ. Therefore this verse directly bears on the question of if once you are saved, can anything including anybody, including ourselves, separate us from the love of Christ.

“From”is the Greek “apo” and means out of and thus points to going out of and therefore overcoming the power of the love of Christ.

“The love of Christ” again is the way essentially every translation renders the phrase. However, this is an ambiguous rendering because the commentators are split, some saying the idea is Christ’s love for us and the others saying the idea is our love for Christ.

Because all the words are in the genitive case, the phrase should be understood to refer to Christ’s or God’s love for us. According to a NASB footnote, some early manuscripts have God rather than Christ at the end of this phrase. No matter since Christ Jesus is God. If this view is correct, then this verse asks the rhetorical question “Can we forfeit our salvation? Clearly the Bible has many examples where folks who professed to be saved went out from us because they were not of us, when the afflictions and sufferings that come with serving Christ affected them. So the question is, were those who chose to leave actually saved.

Here is how Paul answers the question in verse 39 (WEB)
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from God’s love, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Once we are "in Christ," having been transferred into His spiritual body, undergone the washing of regeneration, born anew, and then indwelt, nothing and nobody can undo those works of God Almighty.
 

th1bill

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Site Supporter
Romans 8:35 (NASB) Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

I expect many of us have an opinion of what this verse is saying. However, because it
contains the ambiguous “love of Christ” the commentators differ greatly as to its intended message.

Lets consider our options and see what shakes out! “Who,” the first word in our verse, is the choice of almost all translations, however a few, at least two, go with “what.” One translation flips the word order to read, “Can anything.” The proposed possibilities listed in the next sentence are all things, things that happen to us and could conceivably cause us to cease our love for Christ. So lets stick with essentially all the translations, i.e. who, because that allows us to consider our own effort to separate from the love of Christ.

“Will separate” points to a future separation, thus indicating a current union with the love of Christ. Therefore this verse directly bears on the question of if once you are saved, can anything including anybody, including ourselves, separate us from the love of Christ.

“From”is the Greek “apo” and means out of and thus points to going out of and therefore overcoming the power of the love of Christ.

“The love of Christ” again is the way essentially every translation renders the phrase. However, this is an ambiguous rendering because the commentators are split, some saying the idea is Christ’s love for us and the others saying the idea is our love for Christ.

Because all the words are in the genitive case, the phrase should be understood to refer to Christ’s or God’s love for us. According to a NASB footnote, some early manuscripts have God rather than Christ at the end of this phrase. No matter since Christ Jesus is God. If this view is correct, then this verse asks the rhetorical question “Can we forfeit our salvation? Clearly the Bible has many examples where folks who professed to be saved went out from us because they were not of us, when the afflictions and sufferings that come with serving Christ affected them. So the question is, were those who chose to leave actually saved.

Here is how Paul answers the question in verse 39 (WEB)
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from God’s love, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Once we are "in Christ," having been transferred into His spiritual body, undergone the washing of regeneration, born anew, and then indwelt, nothing and nobody can undo those works of God Almighty.
Van, my memory at 81 is not as sharp as it used to be, in my 20s but, I don't recall you not believing that there are no stand alone verses in the scriptures. This is part of a letter written by Paul, it has no definative verse numbers nor chapters. Everything from the first word through the last word of the Letter to the Romans lends context to this partial quote. The Spirit has reminded me of this and I try not to muddy the waters with going out of context when trying to teach. Just a foot note.
 

Van

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Van, my memory at 81 is not as sharp as it used to be, in my 20s but, I don't recall you not believing that there are no stand alone verses in the scriptures. This is part of a letter written by Paul, it has no definative verse numbers nor chapters. Everything from the first word through the last word of the Letter to the Romans lends context to this partial quote. The Spirit has reminded me of this and I try not to muddy the waters with going out of context when trying to teach. Just a foot note.
Not sure of the purpose of this post. Did you agree? Or did you disagree that nothing and nobody can separate us, once we are spiritually in Christ?

Your suggestion that I might believe in ripping verses out of context has no basis in reality.
 

Van

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In Luke 11:42 we see the same ambiguous phrase, "love of God" in nearly all the English translations. We find "God's love in the MSG, and love for God in the CSB, CEB, LEB and NET. What good is a translation where the meaning is largely unknown? Can we study the verse and context and determine the correct understanding?

Obviously the Pharisees and the others being addressed were hypocrites, pretending to love God and His word but actually leading others from God.


Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering.”
 

Van

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The problem with ambiguous translation is it leaves the interpretation up to the reader, resulting in differing sects or groups, with the Calvinists saying it means this, and the Arminians saying "no, it means this other thing." The practice promotes dis-unity, and feeds the beast.
 

th1bill

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Not sure of the purpose of this post. Did you agree? Or did you disagree that nothing and nobody can separate us, once we are spiritually in Christ?

Your suggestion that I might believe in ripping verses out of context has no basis in reality.
I agree but, single sentence theology is what I see as a major problem with Christianity today, This ignoring of is how so many today have been deceived into believing things such as all saved, Spirit filled Christians speak in Unknown Tongues and, Works Salvation. I see danger in using this practice.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
I agree but, single sentence theology is what I see as a major problem with Christianity today, This ignoring of is how so many today have been deceived into believing things such as all saved, Spirit filled Christians speak in Unknown Tongues and, Works Salvation. I see danger in using this practice.
Agreed, as taking a single verse out of context has given to us "ham was cursed" to having cults like mormons denying black were equals in status , or denying "mixed marriages" down South
 

Van

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Yes, several sects that split the body of Christ derive their beliefs from ripping verses out of context, and reading into those verses whatever their agenda driven man-made doctrine requires. The things become "all the things," no one seeks, becomes "no one ever seeks" and chosen in Him becomes "individually chosen and foreseen to be placed into Him."

Ambiguity allows conjecture and feeds the beast of false belief. Love of God should either be translated "God's love for" or "love for God."
 

Van

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Romans 8:39 NASB
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Here we see again the ambiguous turn of phrase, but it is needless because the meaning is found in Romans 8:37, the love is God's love for us.

Romans 8:39 Interpretive translation
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from God's love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God's gracious love put us into Christ and keeps us forever. For God so loved humanity that He gave His uniquely divine Son so that everyone believing into Him would not perish but have everlasting life.
 

Van

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These things I have spoken to you so that you will not be led into sin. John 16:1

Let’s not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:26

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a worker who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

Once we are "in Christ," having been transferred into His spiritual body, undergone the washing of regeneration, born anew, and then indwelt, nothing and nobody can undo those works of God Almighty.
 

Van

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Site Supporter
Once we are "in Christ," having been transferred into His spiritual body, and having undergone the washing of regeneration and born anew, then we are indwelt forever, and therefore nothing and nobody can undo those works of God Almighty. Once "in Christ" no one can override God's love for His own children! Once Saved, Always Saved. We have God's Word for it.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
Often times it is good to compare other places the Bible uses the same words. Of course this presupposes we all have the same words and are speaking the same things.


Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
Ephesians 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
 

Van

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Often times it is good to compare other places the Bible uses the same words. Of course this presupposes we all have the same words and are speaking the same things.


Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
Ephesians 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Reading between the lines, since the translation you cited above renders the three phrases in the exact same way, you think ambiguity should prevail. Perhaps. But other translations disagree.

From post #1, you see that I believe the intended meaning of the phrase in Romans 8:35 is Christ's love. I did not address 2 Corinthians 5:14 or Ephesians 3:19.

So let us dig into those verses as well:

2 Corinthians 5:14 NASB
For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died;

This one presents, in my opinion, a double whammy. Christ demonstrated his love for us (all humanity) when He sacrificed Himself and died for us. But we (some of humanity) love Him because of His love for us. Therefore, I believe the intended meaning is "Seeing that our love for Christ controls us, we obey Him because we love Him, having concluded He died for all of us. All of us (those redeemed) have died to our old selves, having been baptized into His death." This view is consistent with the context, see 2 Corinthians 5:15.

Ephesians 3:19 NASB
and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled to all the fullness of God.

This one seems straightforward to me, if we "know" Christ's love, we have been redeemed, transferred spiritually into Christ. And that knowledge surpasses all other knowledge. Because that "knowledge" results in being indwelt of the Holy Spirit of God.
 
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