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Romans 8:35 Translation Ambiguity

Van

Well-Known Member
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Romans 8:35 (NASB) Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

I expect many of us have an opinion of what this verse is saying. However, because it
contains the ambiguous “love of Christ” the commentators differ greatly as to its intended message.

Lets consider our options and see what shakes out! “Who,” the first word in our verse, is the choice of almost all translations, however a few, at least two, go with “what.” One translation flips the word order to read, “Can anything.” The proposed possibilities listed in the next sentence are all things, things that happen to us and could conceivably cause us to cease our love for Christ. So lets stick with essentially all the translations, i.e. who, because that allows us to consider our own effort to separate from the love of Christ.

“Will separate” points to a future separation, thus indicating a current union with the love of Christ. Therefore this verse directly bears on the question of if once you are saved, can anything including anybody, including ourselves, separate us from the love of Christ.

“From”is the Greek “apo” and means out of and thus points to going out of and therefore overcoming the power of the love of Christ.

“The love of Christ” again is the way essentially every translation renders the phrase. However, this is an ambiguous rendering because the commentators are split, some saying the idea is Christ’s love for us and the others saying the idea is our love for Christ.

Because all the words are in the genitive case, the phrase should be understood to refer to Christ’s or God’s love for us. According to a NASB footnote, some early manuscripts have God rather than Christ at the end of this phrase. No matter since Christ Jesus is God. If this view is correct, then this verse asks the rhetorical question “Can we forfeit our salvation? Clearly the Bible has many examples where folks who professed to be saved went out from us because they were not of us, when the afflictions and sufferings that come with serving Christ affected them. So the question is, were those who chose to leave actually saved.

Here is how Paul answers the question in verse 39 (WEB)
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from God’s love, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Once we are "in Christ," having been transferred into His spiritual body, undergone the washing of regeneration, born anew, and then indwelt, nothing and nobody can undo those works of God Almighty.
 

th1bill

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Romans 8:35 (NASB) Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

I expect many of us have an opinion of what this verse is saying. However, because it
contains the ambiguous “love of Christ” the commentators differ greatly as to its intended message.

Lets consider our options and see what shakes out! “Who,” the first word in our verse, is the choice of almost all translations, however a few, at least two, go with “what.” One translation flips the word order to read, “Can anything.” The proposed possibilities listed in the next sentence are all things, things that happen to us and could conceivably cause us to cease our love for Christ. So lets stick with essentially all the translations, i.e. who, because that allows us to consider our own effort to separate from the love of Christ.

“Will separate” points to a future separation, thus indicating a current union with the love of Christ. Therefore this verse directly bears on the question of if once you are saved, can anything including anybody, including ourselves, separate us from the love of Christ.

“From”is the Greek “apo” and means out of and thus points to going out of and therefore overcoming the power of the love of Christ.

“The love of Christ” again is the way essentially every translation renders the phrase. However, this is an ambiguous rendering because the commentators are split, some saying the idea is Christ’s love for us and the others saying the idea is our love for Christ.

Because all the words are in the genitive case, the phrase should be understood to refer to Christ’s or God’s love for us. According to a NASB footnote, some early manuscripts have God rather than Christ at the end of this phrase. No matter since Christ Jesus is God. If this view is correct, then this verse asks the rhetorical question “Can we forfeit our salvation? Clearly the Bible has many examples where folks who professed to be saved went out from us because they were not of us, when the afflictions and sufferings that come with serving Christ affected them. So the question is, were those who chose to leave actually saved.

Here is how Paul answers the question in verse 39 (WEB)
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from God’s love, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Once we are "in Christ," having been transferred into His spiritual body, undergone the washing of regeneration, born anew, and then indwelt, nothing and nobody can undo those works of God Almighty.
Van, my memory at 81 is not as sharp as it used to be, in my 20s but, I don't recall you not believing that there are no stand alone verses in the scriptures. This is part of a letter written by Paul, it has no definative verse numbers nor chapters. Everything from the first word through the last word of the Letter to the Romans lends context to this partial quote. The Spirit has reminded me of this and I try not to muddy the waters with going out of context when trying to teach. Just a foot note.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Van, my memory at 81 is not as sharp as it used to be, in my 20s but, I don't recall you not believing that there are no stand alone verses in the scriptures. This is part of a letter written by Paul, it has no definative verse numbers nor chapters. Everything from the first word through the last word of the Letter to the Romans lends context to this partial quote. The Spirit has reminded me of this and I try not to muddy the waters with going out of context when trying to teach. Just a foot note.
Not sure of the purpose of this post. Did you agree? Or did you disagree that nothing and nobody can separate us, once we are spiritually in Christ?

Your suggestion that I might believe in ripping verses out of context has no basis in reality.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In Luke 11:42 we see the same ambiguous phrase, "love of God" in nearly all the English translations. We find "God's love in the MSG, and love for God in the CSB, CEB, LEB and NET. What good is a translation where the meaning is largely unknown? Can we study the verse and context and determine the correct understanding?

Obviously the Pharisees and the others being addressed were hypocrites, pretending to love God and His word but actually leading others from God.


Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering.”
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The problem with ambiguous translation is it leaves the interpretation up to the reader, resulting in differing sects or groups, with the Calvinists saying it means this, and the Arminians saying "no, it means this other thing." The practice promotes dis-unity, and feeds the beast.
 

th1bill

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Not sure of the purpose of this post. Did you agree? Or did you disagree that nothing and nobody can separate us, once we are spiritually in Christ?

Your suggestion that I might believe in ripping verses out of context has no basis in reality.
I agree but, single sentence theology is what I see as a major problem with Christianity today, This ignoring of is how so many today have been deceived into believing things such as all saved, Spirit filled Christians speak in Unknown Tongues and, Works Salvation. I see danger in using this practice.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
I agree but, single sentence theology is what I see as a major problem with Christianity today, This ignoring of is how so many today have been deceived into believing things such as all saved, Spirit filled Christians speak in Unknown Tongues and, Works Salvation. I see danger in using this practice.
Agreed, as taking a single verse out of context has given to us "ham was cursed" to having cults like mormons denying black were equals in status , or denying "mixed marriages" down South
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yes, several sects that split the body of Christ derive their beliefs from ripping verses out of context, and reading into those verses whatever their agenda driven man-made doctrine requires. The things become "all the things," no one seeks, becomes "no one ever seeks" and chosen in Him becomes "individually chosen and foreseen to be placed into Him."

Ambiguity allows conjecture and feeds the beast of false belief. Love of God should either be translated "God's love for" or "love for God."
 
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