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The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: Acts 2:20

JD731

Well-Known Member
This verse is a direct quote from the prophet Joel 2;31. This is in the first sermon preached in the New Testament age after Jesus Christ had been crucified and had risen from the dead and showed himself alive to certain chosen disciples for 40 days before his ascension to heaven where he is presently.

This was the festival of Pentecost, the Feast of Weeks.
The order of events in Acts 2, 10 days later after Jesus ascended, began with the pouring out of the Holy Ghost on the 120 in the room who had previously received the indwelling Holy Spirit in John 20. There is no evidence in the scriptures that this man Peter, who preached this first sermon to Israel,( nor any other of the 120 who were in the upper room that day), concluded it with the command for them to repent, be baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and they will receive the Holy Ghost, was ever baptized in water himself.

This sermon was preached to a specific group of people and it had instructions that could apply to this specific people only. It was a very narrow command to these people. It was a kingdom sermon. The key phase in the command of Peter when he was asked by his audience what they must do at the end of his sermon was "every one of you." Remember that Jesus had told these men that they would minister in his very power and what Peter said to this nation was as if Jesus himself was speaking.

I do want to quote the passages that tell us who Peter and the others were addressing because it matters to Bible believers.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

They were not just men from every nation under heaven, but Jews from every nation under heaven, devout Jews.
They could not all speak Hebrew! Here is what is said about them.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Now, that is what he said to those people. Afterwards he shifts gears and speaks and addresses the nation. The Jews who dwell in Jerusalem and Judaea.
Watch it!

13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
These others were obviously not devout men

He speaks directly to them through v21 and then this:

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

There were not only miracles and signs but the sun refused to shine and though we are not told directly, the moon was turned to blood just like Acts 2:20 says. Jesus had performed many miracles in the previous 3 years and it is actually true that this prophecy of Joel was actually and literally fulfilled in the person and works of Jesus Christ and his death on the cross. Now he has risen from the dead and his complete nation, all the tribes were gathered together by him to assure them that all his promises to them would be fulfilled but Israel is a collective and must be saved as a collective to receive their national promises. God gave them 7 years and at the end of that 7 years you can read their answer in in the last few verses of Acts 7.

There was a transition there at that time but had they repented history would have been written much differently because all the promises of God, to whomever he makes them, are yea and Amen, and they cannot fail.

Ex 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off (in the nations), even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

This might be one of the greatest sermons ever preached. It shows us the gracious and merciful character of our God and the prideful and arrogant and rebellious nature of man

How would your religious group handle these verses in Acts 2?
 
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37818

Well-Known Member
The eleven references:

Isaiah 13:10.
Isaiah 24:23.
Ezekiel 32:7.
Joel 2:10.
Joel 2:31.
Joel 3:15.
Matthew 24:29.
Mark 13:24.
Luke 21:25.
Acts 2:20.
Revelation 6:12.

Of the one event.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
Jesus in the gospel record of his first coming as a man, one of us, to accomplish redemption for us had in fact fulfilled the prophecy of darkening the sun and turning the moon into blood when he hung on the cross. The 6 hours that Friday was in two parts. One, he was nailed there at 9:00 o'clock in the morning but, two, at noon the world went dark and there was an earthquake. Jesus cried to the Father and the Spirit, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Jesus suffered there as a man in hell will suffer. Death is first spiritual separation from God. Define death some other way and you will not get the impact of what Jesus did for you and me. He as a man was separated from God. But his soul was not separated from his body so he was not physically dead. He gave up the ghost, another way of saying his soul and body were separated and he was dead physically. If it was finished then we can expect he would have no more suffering and his soul went to paradise on Friday before 6: o'clock where OT saints went until they were washed in the blood and his body went lifeless to the tomb where it suffered no corruption. He remained dead through Saturday, the Sabbath, the completion of the week, which ended at 6 PM and very early in the morning on day 8, Sunday, the first day of a new week, he rose from the dead and was glorified and became the only man who ever was resurrected from the dead never to die again. The Bible tells us he rose from the dead on the first day of the Week, very early in the morning.

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

The gospel is simple for us today. it is in it's simplest form the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the purpose of taking our sins on himself and satisfying the justice of God for anyone and everyone who will believe what he did actually was the plan of God as the only means possible for him remaining a perfectly just God while at the same time justifying any and all sinners who will believe on him and imputing the perfect righteousness of Christ to him.

While the gospel is simple enough for a child to understand it and be saved there remains some things that must be acknowledged and believed by the one who hears about this salvation of God from our sins. That is why a preacher of the gospel is much more important in evangelism than a written copy of the scriptures. Those things that are non-negotiable from God must be received by the hearer and the preacher can and will explain them to him. God sends a preacher to a sinner as his first response to him before he sends a Bible. The gospel is in no way a magical formula but a message and invitation from God that must be heard and embraced by faith of each individual sinner. Personally, I have heard it and have believed it and received God's eternal salvation from my sins. Praise God for that.

What does this have to do with my title of the OP? I posted this because there are many interpretations of how a man is saved and who is a candidate for salvation. Some of these interpretations are represented here. It is my belief that the preachers on forums like this one are here because of what they have been told by their preachers. They are not what God says. Their preachers have not believed the words God has said and they have written books attempting to explain them away and in their place insert their own interpretations and applications.

It is the dispensationalists who believe the words of God as written and attempt to know who is being addressed and accepts the fact that God has a plan to renew the earth and sinners to their pristine forms by finally taking sin away completely and establishing his perfect kingdom and rule over heaven and earth. It is an unfolding drama of redemption and I am convinced that those who adopt systematic studies of the scriptures that rejects God's assurance that his words mean what they say are opposed to his redemptive purposes. They do not and cannot follow his logic and reasoning. They do not know his ways.

Dispensationalists are not saved because they are dispensationalists but , generally speaking, saved people are dispensationalists because their tendency is to believe the words of God. The evidence that religious men are either not saved or greatly deceived is that they do not believe the words.
 

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
While the gospel is simple enough for a child to understand it and be saved there remains some things that must be acknowledged and believed by the one who hears about this salvation of God from our sins.

That is why a preacher of the gospel is much more important in evangelism than a written copy of the scriptures.

Those things that are non-negotiable from God must be received by the hearer and the preacher can and will explain them to him. God sends a preacher to a sinner as his first response to him before he sends a Bible.

The gospel is in no way a magical formula but a message and invitation from God that must be heard and embraced by faith of each individual sinner. Personally, I have heard it and have believed it and received God's eternal salvation from my sins. Praise God for that.

I disagree. I would not exalt any fallible man above the written Word of God.

The gospel is not magical, but it is a supernatural formula for salvation.

The Holy Spirit can guide a person and help them understand as they read the Bible.

But a preacher can lead the person to an understanding of salvation … or to an acceptance of error, depending on the preacher.

There are many testimonies of how God sent to someone a Bible (like Gideon’s in a hotel room) before God sent them a preacher.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
The eunuch ih Acts 8 asked a question in answer to a question. He was reading Isa 53 when Phillip asked him if he understood what he was reading. He asked, how can I except some man should guide me. Good question.

Cornelius in Acts 10 in the year 40 AD wanted to be saved and God sent him a man, Peter, who had witnessed the resurrection, opened the door of faith to the gentiles. The first letter addressed to gentiles, Galatians, was not penned until 49 AD.

God said Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.Rom 10:13

It is said in 1 Cor 1 that God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Don’t think the word of God is not important but it is not the first tool of evangelism. It is for saved people

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

But, I think I know what you mean.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
The eleven references:

Isaiah 13:10.
Isaiah 24:23.
Ezekiel 32:7.
Joel 2:10.
Joel 2:31.
Joel 3:15.
Matthew 24:29.
Mark 13:24.
Luke 21:25.
Acts 2:20.
Revelation 6:12.

Of the one event.
Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man s heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

My question is why? Why did Peter quote this prophetic theme as the answer to the question the Jews asked "what meaneth this" when they heard the apostles preaching in Hebrew but they hearing them in the language of the nations they were born in?

There are words and phrases that appear in the writings of these prophets, as you have demonstrated, that appears by one after the other of them over centuries and yet have not been fulfilled even in our times. Wouldn't it be wise for the Bible student to define these words and phrases that are obviously themes and identify them?

1) Day of the Lord
2) Punishment of the wicked
3) The wrath of God
4) Darkness
5) Earthquake so severe that it moves the earth out of it's orbit

Are there Parallel prophecies going on here between Jesus and the nation of Israel?
Did the cross of Jesus Christ and his sufferings on it preview the sufferings of the nation Israel and the time of Jacobs trouble and the great tribulation?
Has the nation Israel died and been buried because of her sins and will she be three days in the graves and be raised from the dead early on the third day and be glorified and be the chief nation on the earth for all of eternity?

Ho 6:1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

For context of who is being addressed I quote it in chapter 5.

5:8 Blow ye the cornet in Gibeah, and the trumpet in Ramah: cry aloud at Bethaven, after thee, O Benjamin.
9 Ephraim shall be desolate in the day of rebuke: among the tribes of Israel have I made known that which shall surely be.
10 The princes of Judah were like them that remove the bound: therefore I will pour out my wrath upon them like water.
11 Ephraim is oppressed and broken in judgment, because he willingly walked after the commandment.
12 Therefore will I be unto Ephraim as a moth, and to the house of Judah as rottenness.
13 When Ephraim saw his sickness, and Judah saw his wound, then went Ephraim to the Assyrian, and sent to king Jareb: yet could he not heal you, nor cure you of your wound.
14 For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.
15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

I confess to not having perfect understanding in all these matters but I am assessing these words from the standpoint of logic and reason and comparison of these prophecies over OT and NT occurrences and by many different authors over centuries of use. I believe I am right about the overall teaching but bare with me if I get lesser details wrong. There is a lot to know.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
Ac 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

No one seems to have an opinion about this. How does this fit into your theological system? It looks like there are two parts to this prophesy. The notable day of the Lord is restricted from coming until sometime after the cosmic changes to the sun and moon. We know that God gives signs to Israel and these are signs that the day of the Lord is at hand. When they see them the day is nigh.

1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

All the Jewish apostles and prophets were given sign gifts for the purpose of confirming their gospel they preached to the Jews was from God. The apostolic era ended in 70 AD along with their national identity, and there were no more signs.

Here is a parable that Jesus gave.

Lu 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Lu 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

The fig tree is symbol for the nation.
The vineyard where the Fig tree was planted is the land
He came three years, the length of the ministry of Jesus to Israel
His physical ministry to them was over when this happened and so he gave them a 40 year probationary window to repent and then they cut the fig tree down and removed it from the vineyard.
The crucifixion of Jesus Christ AD 30. The end of Israel as a nation AD 70. This equals 40 years.
Fortunately, the vineyard is still there today.

Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. (read chapter for context but it is a warning to this generation of Hebrews)

I am told that Titus and his army killed over a million Jews and destroyed Jerusalem because they did not repent.
 

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
All the Jewish apostles and prophets were given sign gifts for the purpose of confirming their gospel they preached to the Jews was from God. The apostolic era ended in 70 AD along with their national identity, and there were no more signs.
“…and there were no more signs” is theological opinion that not all scholars agree upon.

Cessationism is, generally speaking, a doctrine of Reformed Christianity. Prior to the Protestant Reformation, there was no such explicit doctrine.

Historically, the Catholic, Methodist, Moravian, and Pentecostal traditions of Christianity have preached continuationism while Dispensationalist Baptist, the confessional Reformed and Presbyterian, and much of the Anglican traditions have been cessationist. Lutherans have held to a middle position, "open but cautious" continuationism, that views the full range of spiritual gifts as not given exclusively to the first-century canonical apostles.

There is nothing in the Bible that says healings, miracles, casting out spirits, etc. were only to confirm or establish the new faith. Nor does anything in the Bible say they passed away with the death of the original apostles or the completion of the canon.

John 14:12

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


It makes no sense for such acts of mercy to be merely a limited time token or temporary tool. We still have people suffering from disease and demon possession today. For the gifts of the Holy Spirit to have been withdrawn is not the experience of, for example, missionaries in foreign lands where cessationism has not ruined the faith of the people.

Holy Spirit gifts still convince tribal populations that their voodoo, witch doctors, and pagan idols are not as powerful as Christ. Sermons and praise choruses are not enough to do that job.

Hebrews 13:8

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
 
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