lets see how this goes

Its_real_for me ! said:

Your version a watered down version, son, is incorrect.... verse nine does not say sing psalms unto him.

Click to expand...

Let me make sure I understand this.... The KJV is "watered down", and verse 9 (quoted verbatim)
says something other than what it actually says.

You are both presumptuous and arrogant..... I haven't been called "son" in over 60 years.

Its_real_for me ! said:

In my heart there rings a melody, there rings a melody, something that carries to make one joyous. I heard and TRIED to like your "Psalm songs" and DID NOT make or ring a melody, and watch numerous times two congregations that tried to rely on melody's that were not even close to carried tune or Phrase to make any sense. I would say, David and Solomon were better at making a phrase or phrases. Jews have thier melody in thier eastern culture, kind of like a Indian sitar, which I can't stand to listen to but the Beatles under the influence of hallucinogenics, did.

Click to expand...

Again, you completely missed the point. Singing praises to the Lord is NOT ABOUT YOU, nor
is it about a tune, a phrase or melody or what you think it should sound like. When someone is
singing praises and glory to God for His love for us, do you think God is thinking..."Wow, these
people can't carry a note" ?

Put your heart and mind into singing praise and glory to Almighty God, Psalms or otherwise,
and the joy will follow.

p.s. The "i before e" rule does not apply to the word "their". Someone as smart as you should know that.

Mike B said:

Let me make sure I understand this.... The KJV is "watered down", and verse 9 (quoted verbatim)
says something other than what it actually says.

You are both presumptuous and arrogant..... I haven't been called "son" in over 60 years.




Again, you completely missed the point. Singing praises to the Lord is NOT ABOUT YOU, nor
is it about a tune, a phrase or melody or what you think it should sound like. When someone is
singing praises and glory to God for His love for us, do you think God is thinking..."Wow, these
people can't carry a note" ?

Put your heart and mind into singing praise and glory to Almighty God, Psalms or otherwise,
and the joy will follow.

p.s. The "i before e" rule does not apply to the word "their". Someone as smart as you should know that.

Click to expand...

I'm not missing any points about either versions or Phrases in music... either some have it or some don't ( in case you don't know what a phrase is, it's a note for note or chords that make sense and flow to make sense). Guess some don't care about the young crowd being drawn in with this type of music you all like. I was told that by a elder of a church, we're bringing them in, and that what counts. I also remember at a church function of kids doing a rendition of The house of the rising sun by the Animals to Amazing grace. I challenged a mother of a kid from another church I knew and her response to me was the devil is always in the mix to discourage, saying I was discouraging. The last time i saw the kids mom at my wifes sister and brother in laws gathering they have once a year (that they have a gay son who never shows his face) her husband was bragging about how God provided him a job at one of the sports complexes in the city near by as security around drunks. See where I'm going with this ? I truly don't believe God has his hand on contemporary music in a worship service with praise bands, or what you people call "psalm songs".

How about this.....

Most songs, secular songs, sometimes have lyrics that follow the chorus, sometimes they don't and sometimes the lyrics have thier melody with a different tempo or harmony, that's why some musicians are called artists, from years ago, unlike today.

Its_real_for me ! said:

Bitter, no. Always upset about something? Just evangelists being to loud and too long winded. Like Jeckle and Hyde personalities. Other than your weird avatar, you have some valid points but none that refer to me other than just the one thing about being exposed to Baptist evangelists, going overboard.

Click to expand...

The Apostle Paul preached so long once, someone fell asleep and fell out a window.

Can you recount an experience where you actually encouraged someone in church? By encourage, I don’t mean attempting to correct something you think they did wrong, but compliment or edify something they did or said?

Peace to you

canadyjd said:

The Apostle Paul preached so long once, someone fell asleep and fell out a window.

Can you recount an experience where you actually encouraged someone in church? By encourage, I don’t mean attempting to correct something you think they did wrong, but compliment or edify something they did or said?

Peace to you

Click to expand...

depends on the severity of thier sin....... and some aren't worth encouraging and should be left alone, but not to shun them, but... it can be dangerous to fellowship with them..... Matthew 18:17. And sometimes there's people that will never change. A good rebuke in love doen't hurt between believers. Proverbs 27:6

Matthew 18 makes it clear about a tresspass
1st Corinthians 5:9&11

Its_real_for me ! said:

I'm not missing any points about either versions or Phrases in music... either some have it or some don't ( in case you don't know what a phrase is, it's a note for note or chords that make sense and flow to make sense).

Click to expand...

Really? That’s the definition of a “phrase”?

Its_real_for me ! said:

Guess some don't care about the young crowd being drawn in with this type of music you all like.

Click to expand...

So you don’t like modern music. Ok. Who are you to judge what type of music moves another person closer to God? Can’t you be happy another person is moving closer to God?

Its_real_for me ! said:

I was told that by an elder of a church, we're bringing them in, and that what counts.

Click to expand...

Paul stated he attempts to be all things to all men so that by all means some may be saved. Does it matter what type of music “brings them in” as long as the gospel is being preached?

Does it matter if the preacher is loud and long winded if the gospel is being preached?

Its_real_for me ! said:

I also remember at a church function of kids doing a rendition of The house of the rising sun by the Animals to Amazing grace.

Click to expand...

Did you find that inappropriate?

John Newton (composed Amazing Grace, in case you didn’t know) was a slave trader who raped slave women on his ship and bragged about giving the new slave owner “two for one” when the slave became pregnant.

I suspect whoever wrote House of the Rising Sun might object to their melody being used with a song from a slave trader.

Its_real_for me ! said:

I challenged a mother of a kid from another church I knew and her response to me was the devil is always in the mix to discourage, saying I was discouraging.

Click to expand...

Was she wrong? Were you being discouraging?

Why did you think it appropriate to “challenge” a mother? Why was that your responsibility to challenge her and not the leadership of that church?

Its_real_for me ! said:

The last time i saw the kids mom at my wifes sister and brother in laws gathering they have once a year (that they have a gay son who never shows his face)

Click to expand...

Wow!!!! Gossip much??

Its_real_for me ! said:

her husband was bragging about how God provided him a job at one of the sports complexes in the city near by as security around drunks.

Click to expand...

Really? He bragged about being around drunks, or was he thankful to God for his employment? Did you offer to pay his rent if he quit his job?

Its_real_for me ! said:

See where I'm going with this ?

Click to expand...

I think so…

You are a self appointed fruit inspector that demands his own way, has no grace and no tact, that looks down on everyone else, causes trouble in every church he joins, a judgmental gossiper who is incapable of self reflection and growth.

Or, am I wrong about you?

Its_real_for me ! said:

I truly don't believe God has his hand on contemporary music in a worship service with praise bands, or what you people call "psalm songs".

Click to expand...

Your opinion isn’t gospel truth.

Its_real_for me ! said:

How about this.....

Most songs, secular songs, sometimes have lyrics that follow the chorus, sometimes they don't and sometimes the lyrics have thier melody with a different tempo or harmony, that's why some musicians are called artists, from years ago, unlike today.

Click to expand...

Where did you get your music degree?

Your preferences concerning music and preaching styles are not gospel.

Please, please, try to find some Christian joy in your life.

Peace to you

canadyjd said:

Really? That’s the definition of a “phrase”?

So you don’t like modern music. Ok. Who are you to judge what type of music moves another person closer to God? Can’t you be happy another person is moving closer to God?

Paul stated he attempts to be all things to all men so that by all means some may be saved. Does it matter what type of music “brings them in” as long as the gospel is being preached?

Does it matter if the preacher is loud and long winded if the gospel is being preached?

Did you find that inappropriate?

John Newton (composed Amazing Grace, in case you didn’t know) was a slave trader who raped slave women on his ship and bragged about giving the new slave owner “two for one” when the slave became pregnant.

I suspect whoever wrote House of the Rising Sun might object to their melody being used with a song from a slave trader.

Was she wrong? Were you being discouraging?

Why did you think it appropriate to “challenge” a mother? Why was that your responsibility to challenge her and not the leadership of that church?

Wow!!!! Gossip much??

Really? He bragged about being around drunks, or was he thankful to God for his employment? Did you offer to pay his rent if he quit his job?

Yes I do.

You are a self appointed fruit inspector that demands his own way, has no grace and no tact, that looks down on everyone else, causes trouble in every church he joins, a judgmental gossiper who is incapable of self reflection and growth.

Your opinion isn’t gospel truth.

Where did you get your music degree?

Your preferences concerning music and preaching styles are not gospel.

Please, please, try to find some Christian joy in your life.

Peace to you

Click to expand...

I know enough about music to say who has talent and who doesn't. Fanny Crosby knew she didn't, and hired someone to write the melody, she was an excellent lyricist. I don't support or encourage making a living around drunks maybe if they are recovering alcoholics. Accountability is truth.

Its_real_for me ! said:

I know enough about music to say who has talent and who doesn't. Fanny Crosby knew she didn't, and hired someone to write the melody, she was an excellent lyricist.

Click to expand...

One of the most beautiful songs I ever heard was from an elderly man who couldn’t carry a tune and his voice sounded like he gargled nails every morning.

He sang of his love for God and appreciation of what his Savor had done for him. Moved me to tears.

Its_real_for me ! said:

I don't support or encourage making a living around drunks maybe if they are recovering alcoholics. Accountability is truth.

Click to expand...

Please provide biblical support for your assertion that “accountability is truth”

Please provide biblical support for your assertion a Christian’s shouldn’t having a job where alcohol might be consumed.

Peace to you

canadyjd said:

One of the most beautiful songs I ever heard was from an elderly man who couldn’t carry a tune and his voice sounded like he gargled nails every morning.

He sang of his love for God and appreciation of what his Savor had done for him. Moved me to tears.

Please provide biblical support for your assertion that “accountability is truth”

Please provide biblical support for your assertion a Christian’s shouldn’t having a job where alcohol might be consumed.

Peace to you

Click to expand...

It one thing if a person gets up and has trouble singing, and to be honest they aren't called on to sing a solo, typically. Even though they stink, you don't tell them, but I'm sure they know, and you tolerate them in love.

Doesn't sound like you are doctrinally sound, I encourage you to find the verses yourself. Study to show yourself approved is does have biblical support.

Its_real_for me ! said:

I never said the Psalm is ridiculous, I said the melody is ridiculous and don't create a melody in our hearts. I remember at a member meeting voting on a pastor, while waiting on the count, we sang Alca pela old hymns.. and I couldn't believe my eyes watching others sing how joyful we sang compared to your "psalm songs" ! People were disinterested. Don't tell me Psalm songs are better.

Old hymns subjective theology ? "Updated" bible versions are subjective. You're splitting hairs here !

Click to expand...

No, you said that Psalm 136 was repetitive, draining and a "ridiculous song". I did not provide a melody. I provided the psalm to compare with our old hymns (which we also sing.... we sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs).



I very seriously doubt those you observed were more joyous than my congregation because they sang old hymns a cappella. I cannot say they are less joyous, but if they are like you I believe they probably were (the self-centeredness, elevating your own preferences, finding Psalm 136 draining, eyc. are indicators of a spiritual problem that my congregation, although not perfect, lacks).


The problem with congregations singing a cappella while condemning the worship of others (to include those in the Bible) is our old hymns when sung a cappella depend on harmony and this is a Western invention worship music lacked in the Bible. These people (people like you) are hypocrites.

What allows you to introduce harmony (a secular music structure) to worship music? You do so because of Western culture. It sounds pleasing to your ear.

Also, what allows you to remove the music instruments prescribed for psalms in the Bible? Most of the psalms were written to be accompanied by specific instruments?


The answer, obviously, is "nothing". You depart from the way worship was conducted in the Bible because of your culture...your "ear"... and worship in a way that is authentic to you.

That part is fine. The part where you fall into sin is in condemning others for not adopting your extra-biblical worship style, for not viewing your preferences authoritative. You condemn others for worshipping God in spirit and in truth because you dislike their style.


In the end of the day you show your sin on this post. You said that Psalm 136 was "repetitive and draining" and called it a "ridiculous song".

canadyjd said:

One of the most beautiful songs I ever heard was from an elderly man who couldn’t carry a tune and his voice sounded like he gargled nails every morning.

Click to expand...

I had a similar experience. The elderly gentleman could sing well when he was young but time had taken his voice.l years before. He wanted to sing to God one last time as his testimony and worship (he was in his mid 90's). It beautiful and God moved the entire audience through his song.

Another such experience was seeing David Ring (who has cerebral palsy) sing Jesus Loves Me in sharing his testimony.


Authentic worship, worshipping in spirit and truth, is always and without exception more beautiful than the best performance dependent on skill.

Mike B said:

Let me make sure I understand this.... The KJV is "watered down", and verse 9 (quoted verbatim)
says something other than what it actually says.

You are both presumptuous and arrogant..... I haven't been called "son" in over 60 years.




Again, you completely missed the point. Singing praises to the Lord is NOT ABOUT YOU, nor
is it about a tune, a phrase or melody or what you think it should sound like. When someone is
singing praises and glory to God for His love for us, do you think God is thinking..."Wow, these
people can't carry a note" ?

Put your heart and mind into singing praise and glory to Almighty God, Psalms or otherwise,
and the joy will follow.

p.s. The "i before e" rule does not apply to the word "their". Someone as smart as you should know that.

Click to expand...

I literally posted Psalm 136.... no accompanying music, no changes. Just copied the psalm from my bible app and pasted it on the thread as an example of the type of songs we sing.

@Its_real_for me ! replied that my "ridiculous song" was "repetative and draining".

When he realized that it was Scripture he said I had changed it. When he realized I had not he replied it was the melody I used he found ridiculous. I used no melody. I just copied and pasted the psalm.


I think it is obvious (or should be) that @Its_real_for me ! joined this board yesterday (or the day prior) as a troll.

The issue is not that he didn't recognize my song as Psalm 136. The issue is he found the psalm itself ridiculous and draining (it is repetitive, as are most psalms as repetition is a part of Hebrew songs).

He read God's words and condemned those words as ridiculous and draining. That is light, or a warning sign, into his spirit. VThe words themselves should have generated a different reaction.

JonC said:

I literally posted Psalm 136.... no accompanying music, no changes. Just copied the psalm from my bible app and pasted it on the thread as an example of the type of songs we sing.

@Its_real_for me ! replied that my "ridiculous song" was "repetative and draining".

When he realized that it was Scripture he said I had changed it. When he realized I had not he replied it was the melody I used he found ridiculous. I used no melody. I just copied and pasted the psalm.


I think it is obvious (or should be) that @Its_real_for me ! joined this board yesterday (or the day prior) as a troll.

The issue is not that he didn't recognize my song as Psalm 136. The issue is he found the psalm itself ridiculous and draining (it is repetitive, as are most psalms as repetition is a part of Hebrew songs).

He read God's words and condemned those words as ridiculous and draining. That is light, or a warning sign, into his spirit. VThe words themselves should have generated a different reaction.

Click to expand...

the music that goes along with the Psalm is inadequate. Trolling?? Uh huh, it's called debating that led to a declaration of Independence and a US constitution. Bye

Its_real_for me ! said:

the music that goes along with the Psalm is inadequate.

Click to expand...

For you, perhaps. But it was not inadequate to God. If it were God would not have had the psalms written to be sung with specific instrumental music.

The word we translate "psalm" is mizmor (מִזְמוֹר).

Psalms are written to be accompanied by musical instruments (stringed, wind and percussion). Many psalms prescribe specific instruments (were written to be sung along with a specific instrument).

I agree that the music used in the Bible would be inadequate for our worship (it is foreign to our "ear" and would not be adequate in terms of worshipping in spirit and truth).

But your preference in music is inadequate for many. It certainly would have been inadequate for early Christians.

If we want to be as close as possible to biblical worship and worship in spirit and truth we would:

1. Worship singing psalms (using stringed instruments, wind instruments, and drums).

2. Worship singing hymns (biblical doctrine of what God has done).

3. We would worship with spiritual songs (testimony)



You object to worship with psalms. You find psalms too repetative, draining and riridiculous.

But otherwise do not. You have no right to condemn Christians for obeying God simply because you dislike psalms in Western worship.


Psalm 150

Praise the Lord.
Praise God in his sanctuary;
Praise him in his mighty heavens.
Praise him for his acts of power;
Praise him for his surpassing greatness.
Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
Praise him with the harp and lyre,
Praise him with timbrel and dancing,
Praise him with the strings and pipe,
Praise him with the clash of cymbals,
Praise him with resounding cymbals.
Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord.

@JonC it would seem you were overly kind when you referred to @Its_real_for me ! as a troll.

His lack of knowledge of the word of God is obvious.

Its_real_for me ! said:

I have been born again for 30 years and struggles are tough. Coming from a abusive background and PTSD has been a hindrance.

This world, as you all know, can be sometimes more than a challenge, for some.

Since I've been saved by Grace, My wife and I been in 4 churches. The first was fine but as a new believer accountability was an issue, second church was better but again, the same, accountability. The third, after the long time Pastor, that only pastored and not worked outside the church, passed, the congregation remained in numbers, but the accountability suffered. What does the word of God say about accountability ? From my experience it's not dealt with as it should.

Now at, what some think, our fourth church, and alot of folks use the end of Matthew 18, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matthew 18 is about church discipline, not about a churches congregation numbers.

I have always had a problem with Baptist churches. The "church", with 10 faithful attending people, we're at now is traditional hymns and no contemporary music. The Pastor, that always had to work outside the church, which is a big deal that effects the ministry, of 41 years passed and left with one Deacon, big load I guess.

The "style" is always at the forefront of the structure of worship and teaching, preaching and most of all evangelism. I cringe when I hear a guest speaker say that to me. The last one who spoke was absurd as I heard in many years. The worst at a Baptist tent meeting and I guess what they called a revival meeting.

Click to expand...

If your church is small, it particularly needs you to be active within it and positive about it, showing love to the other members at all times. I think that if you do that, your problems will seem less important.
If you can't do that, the best thing you can do for the church is to leave. In a church of ten people the very last thing the others need is 10% of the members grumbling and negative.

Its_real_for me ! said:

What is wrong with it ? You may ask? Well it's quite simple..... Gods word should be final, and forceful preaching and teaching shouldn't be.

Click to expand...

2 Timothy 4:1-2. 'I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, you will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.' That sort of preaching sounds pretty forceful to me!
With regard to hymns, sing out with gusto and with joy, even if you don't particularly like some of them. But if you have a few particular favourite hymns, nothing stops you from asking the pastor (politely) if the church can sing them from time to time.

Silverhair said:

@JonC it would seem you were overly kind when you referred to @Its_real_for me ! as a troll.

His lack of knowledge of the word of God is obvious.

Click to expand...

Probably. I even intended on removing the troll commemt before posting. I thought I did but apparently I forgot.

I think he is a troll who lacks knowledge of God's Word (obviously, as Psalm 136 is a fairly popular psalm in congregational worship....to call the psalm a ridiculous song is beyond excuse).

I believe he is a troll because he just joined and started this thread - not for discussion but to insist his preferences are the only way Christians should worship. He is trolling Christians on this forum.

Martin Marprelate said:

If your church is small, it particularly needs you to be active within it and positive about it, showing love to the other members at all times. I think that if you do that, your problems will seem less important.
If you can't do that, the best thing you can do for the church is to leave. In a church of ten people the very last thing the others need is 10% of the members grumbling and negative.

2 Timothy 4:1-2. 'I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, you will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.' That sort of preaching sounds pretty forceful to me!
With regard to hymns, sing out with gusto and with joy, even if you don't particularly like some of them. But if you have a few particular favourite hymns, nothing stops you from asking the pastor (politely) if the church can sing them from time to time.

Click to expand...

This brings up a good point (singing even songs that do not meet your preferences).

Our church started a year ago with about 15 people with the intention of reaching the lost and unchurched in our community. We now have 150-200 members, many of these saved by God through our church.

I did not like most of the music we used in worship. At 57 years old (58 in a week) I am one of the oldest members. Most members are in their 20's to early 30's.

I did not realize the extent of the gulf between my own preferences/ culture and the current adult generation. Also, we are a very diverse congregation (our pastor is Korean and we have members from many ethnic groups and cultures).

I learned not to expect my own preferences/ culture to be the norm. A Hispanic Christian, for example, may view our traditional worship style as foreign and strange.

The current adult generation may view our culture as obsolete and a barrier to reaching others for Christ.

Those of my generation may view the current generation's Christian culture as superficial based on style rather than content (Psalm 136 is a good example, I used it because it is exactly what many older Christians condemn in contemporary worship lyrics).


The answer is not to elevate one culture and preferences over all others but instead to appreciate the worship of other believers even if their style differs ftom your own. They are worshipping God.

I say all of that simply to say I now love many of the songs I once disliked. I see the worship for what it is, worshipping God, rather than how it fits within my own preferences.

Silverhair said:

@JonC it would seem you were overly kind when you referred to @Its_real_for me ! as a troll.

His lack of knowledge of the word of God is obvious.

Click to expand...

what version do you read ?

Its_real_for me ! said:

what version do you read ?

Click to expand...

ABP+, BSB, NASB, NET, NKJV, NRSV, UASV

Plus others for the OT, Greek and Hebrew and Brenton

JonC said:

Probably. I even intended on removing the troll commemt before posting. I thought I did but apparently I forgot.

I think he is a troll who lacks knowledge of God's Word (obviously, as Psalm 136 is a fairly popular psalm in congregational worship....to call the psalm a ridiculous song is beyond excuse).

I believe he is a troll because he just joined and started this thread - not for discussion but to insist his preferences are the only way Christians should worship. He is trolling Christians on this forum.

Click to expand...

lack of Knowledge of the word of God, WOW ! LOL You'd be surprised of college bible grad who don't ! I had one who said the only instruction fir attire is for women not men, and they let him be a deacon. He left a sound church, went to a contemporary church came back let him be a deacon, and left again.

If I lack knowledge then why are old hymns fading since the 1970's ?? They have always been very popular, but now contemporary music is taking over. What for ? Alot of the old hymns from prolific writers, and theologians. What's with the new generation ??