Faith # 7

Jesus would not have preached, “Repent and believe the gospel” if unsaved people had no free will and no ability to obey His command.

It's ensured that God's Elect will be given Faith to believe.

Paul writing to the believers in Thessalonica writes 2 Thessalonians 2:13:

2 Thessalonians 2:13
"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

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As a result of having been Chosen from the beginning, there's an effectual work of the Spirit unto them unto belief of the Truth, which is also Faith—for Paul even uses the same Greek noun for Faith (pistis) but here translated belief of the truth! 36

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Brightfame52 said:

It's ensured that God's Elect will be given Faith to believe.

Paul writing to the believers in Thessalonica writes 2 Thessalonians 2:13:

2 Thessalonians 2:13
"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"

Click to expand...

As a result of having been Chosen from the beginning, there's an effectual work of the Spirit unto them unto belief of the Truth, which is also Faith—for Paul even uses the same Greek noun for Faith (pistis) but here translated belief of the truth! 36

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But that verse does not say that God put that “belief of the truth” into us, bypassing our will.

The Spirit sanctifies us because we choose to believe the truth of the gospel.

Everyone who has been chosen of God in Christ before the foundation[Eph 1:4] will be in due time recipient of the Spirits sanctifying work so that He sets them apart unto belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13. Thats why Paul calls it also the Faith of Gods Elect that acknowledges the Truth Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Acknowledging the Truth and Belief of the Truth are the same, so all of Gods Elect will in Gods time acknowledge the truth. 36

The Chosen of God before the world began and before the elect had being, they had been by the preordination appointed to believe Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Peter writing to believers wrote 1 Pet 1:1-2

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Peter calls them Elect unto obedience, or Faith. Again being elect ensures Faith or Obedience. 36

Christ's own words demonstrate that those given to Him by the Father, His elect sheep, shall certainly come to Him in faith.

John 6:37

“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

Notice the order and certainty of Christ's words.

“All that the Father giveth me” denotes the Father's elect, those whom He has given to His Son. They belong to Christ by the Father's sovereign purpose.

“Shall come to me” denotes the certainty of their coming to Christ in faith. Christ does not say they might come, or that their coming depends upon an independent exercise of freewill. He declares that they shall come.

The Father's giving is the cause; their coming is the certain result. Their faith does not make them the Father's gift to Christ. Rather, because the Father has given them to Christ, they shall come to Him.

Christ further explains this in John 6:44:

“No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

And again in John 6:65:

“No man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.”

So where does saving faith originate? Not in the independent ability of the unregenerate sinner, but in the gracious work of God. Philippians 1:29 declares:

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.”

This is the distinction between God's sovereign work and man's response. The Father gives His sheep to Christ, the Spirit gives them life and grants faith, and they consequently come to Christ willingly.

They do not become Christ's sheep by believing; they believe because they are His sheep.

Brightfame52 said:

Natural mans religion always seeks to deprive Christ/God of their Glory due. One way they do this is by attributing Faith Heb 11:1 unto the natural man, which is a lie. Sure man may have a natural faith, but that has absolutely nothing to do with God in Salvation. But the Faith in God that has to do with Salvation in and through Jesus Christ, who is God, comes from Christ and is part of the Glory He received from the Father when He raised Him from the dead.

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My Comment: You are saying that it is taking away God’s glory if you attribute natural faith in man to the faith we receive from Jesus Christ. You quote Heb 11:1. I think you mean that the Arminians believe faith before full regeneration causes regeneration and justification and you disagree with that. We would agree with you that full regeneration precedes Faith. However, we would agree with the Arminians in that, before full regeneration, there is a kind of faith we call an intellectual faith (Rom 10:14-17). Before full regeneration, intellectual faith is developed by audibly hearing scripture preached. The Arminians are right on this hearing as being dispositive. It “prepares” us for full regeneration. This means that when you hear preaching before you are saved, God’s grace [prevenient - Ps 58:11 (Ps 59:10 KJV)] is working inside you at the same time (precedes the preaching). Sometimes it may not seem like it. They can hear with their heart! It’s just that their wills (hearts) are not perfect yet. There can be certain impediments too, such as being mentally challenged, too young, not feeling well, etc. The key is this: Their faith is not dead as calvinists believe and they are not resisting God. They are there. At least, they are not totally resisting. During this time (before full regeneration), those who are moved by the Spirit get what we would call “illuminations”. An example would be seeing something in scripture before you hear it or sort of like “reading between the lines”. The catholic view is that these help prepare us for election to justification (full regeneration) which occurs at baptism. They move the soul or stimulate our souls and develop certain required dispositions in us (ex: recognizing that we are sinners, fear of divine Justice, begin to love God, etc). These dispositions don’t have to be perfect and God decides when we are ready to be baptized through the ministry of the priest or deacon. It’s in God’s Providence when we are baptized. Baptism is an effect of predestination. Baptism is where we receive and use our Faith to willingly come to Christ (Rom 10:9-13). We depart from the Arminian view in that this intellectual faith is perfective and causes partial regeneration. We say it prepares us for full regeneration at baptism so there is a gap between the two. One doesn’t cause the other.

Brightfame52 said:

Lets look at 1 Pet 1:21

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him[Christ] glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.


Faith and Hope in God, in the realm of Salvation, is the result of God giving Christ Glory after raising Him from the Dead.

Thats what 1 Pet 1:21 tells us. Key to understanding this is the word that:

that your faith and hope might be in God.

Its the greek Conjunction hóste and it means:

so that, therefore, so then, so as to.

hṓste (a conjunction, derived from 5613 /hōs, "as" and 5037 /té, "both-and") – wherefore (with the result that both . . . ), connecting cause to necessary effect which emphasizes the result (the combined, end-accomplishment). The result involved then is the combination of both elements in the correlation, underscoring the inevitable effect of the paired elements.


So understand that according to Peter here Faith in God is the necessary effect, the inevitable of effect of God raising up Christ from the dead and giving Him Glory !

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My Comment: You quote 1 Pet 1:21 to say that “your faith and hope might be in God” comes AFTER or is received from “God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him[Christ] glory”. I think you interpret this to mean that your faith comes after full regeneration (after the resurrection)?

Brightfame52 said:

Thats why Peter writes in his 2 nd epistle to these same believers 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 29

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My Comment: I think you are saying your faith comes from the righteousness of Christ. Again, full regeneration precedes saving Faith.

I do have a couple of questions:

Since you receive Faith at full regeneration by hearing the gospel, does hearing the gospel happen “one time” and this “one time” causes Faith which causes justification? After that first time, the next time you hear preaching and receive Faith, are you in the sanctification process?

Full regeneration precedes Faith. What is Faith for then? (Since you are already regenerated). I know you will say to cause justification. It seems that if you are already fully regenerated, that would cause justification by itself?


Faith - Catholic View

I thought that since this thread is about "Faith", I would introduce the viewers to the catholic understanding of Faith.


In Scripture, the term “Faith” can be a gift, virtue or fruit (not just a gift; not just something received):


Baptism (Full Regeneration)(Rom 10:9-13)

At the point of baptism, Faith is all of these:

Belief (Gift and Virtue - mainly a virtue)

Faith as a gift - it is a gift because it is received by grace (Eph 2:8)(Baptism - Eph 2:4-5)

Faith (belief) as a theological virtue - saving Faith = believing (infused by charity) (believe - Rom 4:3, Rom 10:9)

Faith as a theological virtue that works through charity (Gal 5:6) to produce fruit - When this Faith (belief) is used in an act, it is a work (John 6:29, 1 Thess 1:3, James 2:22, etc) and produces fruit (reward - ex: life everlasting - Rom 6:22)

Faith as a fruit - Gal 5:23 - Faith is a fruit

To make an analogy

Let’s say I receive a Christmas present (Gift) and let’s say it’s a power tool. It is a gift because I received it but mainly it is something I am suppose to use (power tool = Virtue). When I work to complete a job with the power tool (virtue), I obtain a finished product (fruit or reward). So Faith is a gift, virtue and fruit.