What's wrong and right with IFBs and IFBism?

What are the best and worst features of Independent Fundamental Baptists?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CorpseNoMore:
What are the best and worst features of Independent Fundamental Baptists?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*sigh* CNM...I don't have time to write a book!

Elizabeth

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by elizabeth:
*sigh* CNM...I don't have time to write a book! Elizabeth

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would appear that the providential return of the The Fightin' Fundamentalist Forum has shortcircuited any interest from developing in this thread.

alas...

CNM

I Pastor an IFB church. I do believe that IFB churches are worth salvaging.Also however, a big problem (imho) is denial. Alot of IFB pastors I know here in NYC are constantly comparing themselves with others and making KJV only a test of orthodoxy.
Because my church uses the NKJV for Pew Bibles I've been looked upon as a compromiser . A big problem too that I've had personally is this spirit of elitism masked by separation. It reminds me of Isaiah 65:5, "holier than thou" which seems to say what the elitist are saying, "Get away from me!I am more separated than you!" The verse reads in the KJV, "...Stand by thyself,come not near to me;for I am holier than thou." and notice God's response; "These are a smoke in My nose, a fire that burneth all the day".In my view, the principle of this verse applies to too many in the IFB movement, and hey, I am IFB! I'm not saying IFBers should compromise, but stop this splitting of hairs over nonessentials, ad infintum!

[ July 12, 2001: Message edited by: RevKevin77 ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RevKevin77:
Because my church uses the NKJV for Pew Bibles I've been looked upon as a compromiser <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We gotta remember our task is not to reach the other churches but the people around us. When we put NASBs in the pew, some of the older folks were against it because they preferred the KJV. I said, "with all due respect, these Bibles are not for you. They are for people who come in off the street and they need to have what the pastor is preaching out of. If you like your KJV bring it with you." Interesting, none of them left over it and I have never heard a word about it.

We should be separated from unbelief, from disobedient brothers, and from worldliness. I am not putting out a call for use of worldly music or dumbing down of theology. I am not suggesting that we should shape our churches around what the unsaved people want. However, I don't really care what so and so across town (Detroit in my case) thinks about which translation of the Bible I have in my pew. If they don't like it, they don't have to come. Come to think of it ... they are not coming now. Let them preach from whatever they want.

[ July 12, 2001: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

Thanks Pastor Larry! Most of the folks in my church, do carry their KJV's and a few the NKJV. It seems like all who visit the church carry a MV, and for those who come in that aren't saved, I don't want them turned off by the "thees" and "thous".I want them to know that the Bible is relevant and written not only to God's children, but that they are invited too, and that modern Christianity is not outta their reach, because Christ has reached down to them, originally He took upon Himself flesh like ours (John 1:14), and I think that that verse applies that He wants His written Word to be relevant as well. (Is this stretching it?)

What "funnymentalism" needs will take a long list, as our shortcomings are manifold<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Cease judging motives of other believers<LI>Stress expository preaching<LI>Lay aside culturally-extinct traditions<LI>Dilligent study of the original languages<LI>Stop tolerating demi-gods and leading men in the pulpit<LI>Get a grip on biblical separation<LI>Study. Study. Study. Don't take anyone's word for it.<LI>Allow our theology to affect the way we live<LI>View God with greater reverence[/list]More will come. Credit to Sandlin and Briggs.

[ July 12, 2001: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]

On the plus side: a strong desire and tendency to reverence and follow God's word.

On the minus side: Anti-intellectualism, and an imbalance in favor of God's immanence over His transcendance.

[ July 12, 2001: Message edited by: Pennsylvania Jim ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RevKevin77:
I Pastor an IFB church. I do believe that IFB churches are worth salvaging.Also however, a big problem (imho) is denial....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the reply RevKevin77, have you visited the Fightin' Fundamentalist Forum, yet?

cordially,

CNM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CorpseNoMore:


It would appear that the providential return of the The Fightin' Fundamentalist Forum has shortcircuited any interest from developing in this thread.

CNM...why not introduce this thread on the FFF?

Elizabeth

alas...

CNM<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMHO,,,,whats wrong with IFB is not enough freedom in christ. Too many rules to live by instead of letting God deal with them personally on issues letting man set standards of what they should or should not do. -dar

Perhaps we should give more serious consideration to the warning about letting our freedom turn into a license for sin (Gal 5:12). It seems to me that the problem in fundamentalism is not its insistence on separation and holiness but rather its (probably unintended) communication that following such standards of holiness and separation are what make one holy. It has become apparent to me that the trend in christianity, even in fundamentalism, is to the lowest common denominator. People seem more interested in getting as much of the world as they can without crossing the imaginary line they have established (whereever that might be). Freedom is all too often turned into an excuse to satisfy the flesh rather than the spirit.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MagicDar:
IMHO,,,,whats wrong with IFB is not enough freedom in christ. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Free from the law is just that. The law condemns us to hell. Freedom in Christ makes us no longer condemned by the law. It is not a license to do what we want. It just means that the law can not save us by keeping it.

Americans today have the same problem. They think that freedom means that no one can tell them what to do.

I can see that people really dont' understand what freedom in Christ actually is. Please, don't anyone take this stuff personally since its not directed at anyone at all but christians in general.

I certainly do not mean a license to sin, I believe God points out plain and clear what is sin and we should not go against this. what I am talking about is that we get so caught up in what we should or should not do that we forget that christianity is literally freedom. Not freedom to sin, but freedom to live. -dar

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MagicDar:
I can see that people really dont' understand what freedom in Christ actually is. Please, don't anyone take this stuff personally since its not directed at anyone at all but christians in general.

I certainly do not mean a license to sin, I believe God points out plain and clear what is sin and we should not go against this. what I am talking about is that we get so caught up in what we should or should not do that we forget that christianity is literally freedom. Not freedom to sin, but freedom to live. -dar<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps you should define what you think this freedom is. It seems pretty clear that it is freedom from the bondage of sin in rigid obedience to the Law, not freedom to participate in sensuality and ungodliness. In my experience most people who claim freedom are participating in ungodly practices that are clearly condemned, at least in principle, by Scripture. Very rarely do people use freedom as the basis for obedience which is really the point of Christian freedom. It is obedience to God motivated by something other than the Law.

I have to agree with Dar on this one. I attended an IB church for years and the do's and don'ts were so heavy. I got to be so worried about how I lived, what I looked like, what I thought (and if anybody could tell by my actions what I thought...), and most of all HOW I DRESSED, that I did not hear much about the UNCONDITIONAL love of Jesus. I got so worried that the Lord would "put me on a shelf" (as that particular preacher put it) for not looking right, acting right, talking right, etc. that it just made me crazy... I felt like I could not be myself. Don't misunderstand, I'm not a loose dresser, use dirty languange or any of that, but I think I put so much pressure on myself to "do right" I could not hear the voice of the Holy Sprit to guide and convict me when needed; I was thinking more on what the preacher preached about that Sunday and making sure I didn't miss anything... and more concerned with what others would think of me when they saw me -this was in a very small town. We moved from that town 27 months ago and I've been out of church ever since. I'm trying to find a "good" church, but I'm so "steeped" or is it "trained" in fundamentalism and I'm having a difficult time with the new church search. It seems that every church I visit, I see so many things "wrong" (who am I, anyway...?) I think that's the way this IB preacher was, that man could find something wrong with a blade of grass. Oh well, enough for now... thanks for listening. k

Folks I have been and will always be an Independant Fundamental Bible Beleiving, Pre-trib, Pre-mel,Missions minded, King James 1611, New Testament Local Church Baptist. With no exceptions, no apologies, no compromising, and lowering of the Standards. By the way why mess with the Book that has stood the test of time for some 400 years, if it aint broke don't fix it.

This thread makes me ill.

People are being unruly, stiff-necked children.

IF churches teach about your appearance. You maybe the only bible a person will see in their lives. If you’re a slopped up bum then your showing that your no better then a drunk. What does that have to say about your faith?

IF churches teach that you have control over your actions. Again, you maybe the only the bible most people read. You are THE church to some people. YOU have a responsibility to show the world the love of God by your speech and actions.

IF churches teach against secular music. This is because of incrementalism that Satan likes to use. First it's Christian rock. Then it's a rock song that doesn't have anything offensive but doesn't have anything Christian. Then it's a slightly offensive song with barely clothed women. And eventually it end with music that does NOTHING to build you or God up.

IF churches teach self-control. If you can't control your own mind, how can you be an asset to God? The mind controls the flesh. The flesh does what the mind thinks.

Look at Sarah in the Old Testament when she laughed at Gods for saying she would have a child at her age. God KNEW what she was thinking.

People around you know what your thinking just by your mannerisms. And guess what, they judge your and your faith and God by those little things.

IF churches teach you have to obey ALL of God's laws. Not the one that is convenient for you at the time. That is just a small portion of what an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church is about.

I just got off a plane, perhaps you would like my "bag" BigErv! Really, no need to get sick over it!

It just bothers me that people look so lowly on the responsibility given to us by the Lord.