What's wrong and right with IFBs and IFBism?

[Joy]

Which Laws do you mean? There are some that we no longer have to obey. We aren't OT Jews. I am IFB too, and I won't be changing that anytime soon, but I do admit, having grown up in the system, that it is riddled with man-made laws and legalism as well. It is to our shame that we force others to keep them, or we thumb our noses at them wondering if they are even saved if they don't.

The test of ones sprituality is what their personal relationship with Christ is. It is not how many laws they keep or what they "do" for Christ. As you grow in grace, your love for Christ will result in an effort to strive to please him, whatever standards or laws you choose to follow.

Unfortunately, IFB's are known for their little catch phrases like, "that person, or church or school is liberal, because they don't do... or they do.... I don't even see how they can be saved if they do.... Their not very spiritual." We are also known for paroting these little standards back without reading our Bibles with a clear understanding of what it really says.

Please don't misunderstand. Standards are not wrong, but judging others according to our own standards is. We are only to judge sin.

 

[BigErv]

From Joy2: Standards are not wrong, but judging others according to our own standards is. We are only to judge sin.

Okay, who's standards do we judge by?

All my statements have been about obeying God's law and God's standards. To so otherwise would be a sin.

Don't dumb down the standards of God; look what dumbing down standards did for our education system

[ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: BigErv ]

 

[Dr. Bob]

Make a quick list of BIBLE standards and compare it to the standards of your church. Man-made standards smack of "legalism" - trying to earn points with God living by works of the flesh.

I will use one small area that I have witnessed in my 30+ years as an historic ifb pastor:

NEW TESTAMENT STANDARD ON DRESS = modesty, covering (not revealing), etc

SOME IFB STANDARD ON DRESS = <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>no bell bottoms<LI>middle of the knee<LI>coulottes<LI>no wire rim glasses<LI>shirt & tie<LI>long sleeved, not sleeveless<LI>no sandals or open toes<LI>hose at all times<LI>no shorts, slacks, gauchos, pedal-pushers[/list]And this is just ONE area. How about hair, facial hair, movies, television, music, Bible versions, bus calling? We set MAN-MADE STANDARDS and claim divine authority and total conformity.

Folks, we can have unity without unanimity; we can contend without becoming contentious.

 

[uhdum]

A couple of weeks ago I had the opportunity to fill in for a church. The message God laid on my heart was on just resting in God's Grace (Heb. 4). I pointed out how, even though we know works do not save us, often times we think we must stay in God's grace and favor by works. I used to have the problem of, "If I don't read a certain number of chapters in my Bible today, God won't bless me and I won't be close to Him." Now obviously, it is important to always be in God's Word, but if I'm just going through the motions, God is not impressed, because faith is the only thing that pleases Him (Heb. 11:6) The Lord also revealed to me that I shouldn't focus on keeping certain rules or works now, i should focus on "growing in grace and the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Pet. 3:18). Jesus describes Himself in John 15 as the vine. When you think about it, a healthy branch anchored to the vine will naturally bear fruit. This may not have directly to do with the discussion on IFB churches, but the Lord really eased my mind on a lot of things by revealing to me that I should focus on Christ and grow closer to Him. Oswald Chambers said that we should stop trying to work for God...instead we should develop a stronger relationship with Him and let Him work through us. Dr. Bob, all those things you listed, I too have noticed in my short time as a preacher. It seems to me that if we worry about what won't please God (which since faith is the only thing that pleases Him I don't know how all these rules and stuff are supposed to), then we forget what He does want (a broken and contrite heart, Psalm 51:16-17).

 

[Kathy]

I am a member of an IFB as of a few weeks ago. I showed up for my first Wednesday night Bible study in shorts and even sat in the front row. NNE looked down on me, NNE gave me any cross looks, NNE said "Hey, Mrs. so and so, maybe you shouldn't wear your shorts to church." So in defense of my Independent, Fundamental, Bible-Believing, Devil Fighting, Bus Running Baptist Church, they have showed me simply by love what they believe as far as standards. But let me tell you this too...since going to this church, God has affirmed in a very OBVIOUS way that this is where He led me to and from the time I was saved in 1997 (dare I say I may not have really been saved then ), as of today, I have a blazing fire in my heart for the Lord! I have never experienced this before, and lest anyone say I am being led by emotions, I have been praying for this for over a year now and I believe that God has not only answered my prayer in the affirmative, but has allowed these emotions as well...I do not mistake my faith in Jesus Christ alone for any silly emotions, but I thank Him for the luxury of them!

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

[Joy]

Preach it Sister Kathy! You go girl!

Hallelujah, I think I'm goin "Baptiscostal" now!

 

[myreflection26]

There are some very cool baptist churches out there who are not hung up on ****** issues of man but can reach out to other no matter. However there are IFB churches who simply put everything including salvation into how we look and things of that nature..is our salvation based on how we look now? Are we supposed to be drawing others into the kingdom by our clothing? If so theres a different gospel than I'm aware of and it certainly isn't of Jesus Christ.

You can wear particular clothing to be relative to particular people but its not going to lead them away or to God.

Sue

 

[myreflection26]

Dr. Bob,

Oh my I never heard of this...whats wrong according to IFB with bell bottoms and wired rim glasses? Just curious is all.

Sue

 

[BigErv]

You can wear garb of the world, and act as the world. God gave you that right. In doing so you tell the world that God's people are not trying to better themselves. That it all right to continue as they are now. In that way your helping Satan to get the victory over the unsaved.

When is the last time you saw a truly great pastor or business person in a tie-dye shirt? Not too often. How often did you see George Washington wear a polo shirt with an alligator on it?

So in direct answer to your question about your nicker and eyeware, if it is of the World it is not of God. If it is not of God then it is of Satan.

I Thes 5:21-22:
21. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22. Abstain from all appearance of evil.

I Cor 3:18-19:
18. Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Psalms 147 10-11:
10. He delighteth not in the strength of the horse: he taketh not pleasure in the legs of a man.
11. The Lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.

Mathew 6 24-25:
24. No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
25. Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?


Don't server God because you have to, serve God because you love to.

 

[John Wells]

I think it's our words and actions that either set us apart or conform us to the world. The only reliable evidence of a person's being saved is not a past experience of receiving Christ but a present life that reflects Christ.
I think common sense in dress and appearance should certainly be the preferred way. In other words, Christians should not pierce their eyebrows and tongue and dye their hair purple, but as for wearing wirerim glasses or branded clothing with an alligator logo - give me a break! Sounds like a good start in recreating 813 Pharisaical laws to me!

 

[Kathy]

Things can be said about ANY church, irregardless of denomination. Yes, some IFB's probably do get fanatical about standards, but in my own experience, I attened a Southern Baptist church and they didn't have any standards that they outright laid out for new attendees or members. No, of course not, instead, they locked you out of their "clique" or they simply ignored you, no matter how hard you put yourself out there to JOIN WITH the church! I'm sorry if I sound angry, but I guess I am still a little bitter about my old church that I attended for nearly 4 years. I joined the choir, I offered myself for child care rotation during the service, I attended all the appropriate women's ministry events and went to Sunday school religiously (no pun intended). I didn't make ONE SINGLE friend! That really hurt! I put forth my BEST efforts to connect with that church and I was stone-walled at every turn. I guess I didn't look they way they wanted me to so they shunned me SILENTLY. Wow, it feels good to get that out tho!
So, I guess I'm just a little defensive when people say things about IFB cuz an IFB church is the first body of believers that has EVER accepted me for who I am! Even when I had my shorts on! I have been at this church less than 2 months and I have been invited to many functions already! I'm quite overwhelmed but I am joyful in my heart! God has really blessed me!

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

[EPH 1:4]

There are a lot of friendly and sweet people in the IFB movement. I have made many friends. One of the problems I have are most of the IFB preachers preach the same thing over and over again. 1) do's and dont's 2) man-made "soul-winning"(Hyles, Hutson, Gray, Hatch) repeat this prayer after me and your saved. Good luck

 

[Joy]

Some, many IFB's are so hung up on their Gospel of Standards that they don't preach doctrine any more. (Hey I is one, so I can say ) Sure, they wear their skirts to their ankles and the right glasses, but if you ask them a few simple questions, they will say, "I don't know, let me ask my pastor and I'll get back to you." Actually we've been taught to say that!

So how about it, if you are an IFB, can you define these terms?

Sanctification

Regeneration

Salvation

Justification

Faith

Grace

Mercy


Those of us who are IFB and recognize the problems, only critcize because we want to see a return to Doctrine and a release from man-made laws that are to be kept for one to be saved or "spiritual." When this Gospel of Standards goes too far, extreme IFBism preaches a gospel of works, and sinners go to hell thinking they were fine because they repeated a prayer on some bus at age 4 and only wore culottes for the rest of their life.

[ September 04, 2001: Message edited by: Joy2 ]

 

[EPH 1:4]

Most IFB preachers say " if you don't go "soulwinning" people will die and go to hell and their blood will be on your hands. For a long time I believed this false teaching, they use Ezekiel 3:18 to make this claim. Another scripture taken out of context. I, you, or no one else can send a person to hell. A person goes to hell because they are a sinner. These preachers claim "God has done all He can do, the rest is up to you." My God WILL save ALL His people from their sins. MATT 1:21. I, for one am sick of hearing false teachings from the IFB'S.

 

[myreflection26]

God has done all he can do??? Does that mean we are suddenly the Holy Spirit? There are many ways to lead people to Christ without the traditional and in my opinion outdated way of door to door soulwinning.

Btw..I think its so funny how many IFB say you must look like a christian by women wearing coulots and when I'm out with others all I hear is look that person must be baptist....not look that person must be a christian. Just something to think on.

Sue

 

[Joy]

Most people get saved from a friend or relative tellingthem about Jesus Christ!

 

[Kathy]

What is so wrong with being labelled a "Baptist" HEAVEN FORBID huh? NOPE! I am proud to be a Baptist because with Baptist as my POSITION and Baptist as my label, people also KNOW that a Baptist is a Christian...can't deny it.

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

[Joy]

Would to God that all Baptists were Christians, Kathy !

 

[Kathy]

I know Joy But you know what I'm saying? If I am living the life and I am peculiar to folks...then good! LoL Did I go Bapticostal this time? LoL

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

[BigErv]

From the IFB guy:

Sanctification - To set apart for sacred use; consecrate. To make holy; purify.(Like setting apart from the world by not dressing like the world )

Regeneration - Spiritual or moral revival or rebirth. To grow and rebuild.

Salvation - From the root saviour - Deliverance from the power or penalty of sin; See redemption

Redemption - Deliverance upon payment of ransom; rescue. Salvation from sin through Jesus's sacrifice.

Justification - Something, such as a fact or circumstance, that justifies: considered misgovernment to be a justification for revolution. See Synonyms apology.

Apology - An acknowledgment expressing regret or asking pardon for a fault or offense.

Faith - Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

Grace - Divine love and protection bestowed freely on people. To honor or favor.

Mercy - Compassionate treatment, especially of those under one's power; clemency