Finish the Sentence...

Do you seriously think that God's grace begins when someone has faith? Is there no grace before that?

This verse doesn't mention regeneration, so you wasted your energy typing in capital letters on this one.

Not sure what this has to do with regeneration...

I'm sorry, could you please re-read Roman's 4 and tell me where it says "Abraham's faith" or even "his faith?" The closest you come is to Paul's application in verse 5, which says, "Now to him who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted as righteousness."

But you have to be very careful not making this section say more than it is. This is the same section the Catholics use to talk about our faith being our righteousness before God. It is also the same section the New Perspective on Paul people turn to to discredit forensic justification and the imputation of Christ's righteousness. Needless to say, I believe they are both wrong, and they make the same emphasis you do from this section. You're in good company!

You take one verse out of context to say that God calls many who are not chosen??? The "many called" are the ones to whom the general call of the gospel goes out, such as when an evangelist stands on the street corner and proclaims the gospel. This is not the call of God. The call of God comes to a person's heart and effects what it sets out to do.

John 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Boy, you really don't know what you are talking about, do you? The one word translated "might be saved" is sothey. It is a subjunctive in form. We use it often to indicate something that is not necessarily just a possibility. For instance, "I bought a car so that I might be able to drive to work." It just gives the reason why I did something.

You try to attribute to God your definition of love and fairness. God says He loves His children more than those who are the children of the devil. God isn't a sinner, is He? God says He mold some vessels for honor and some vessels for dishonor. God isn't a sinner, is he?

For someone who constantly misquotes Scripture, ignores what others have said, doesn't know basic Greek, and has no clue what the differences are between basic theological words, it seems a little arrogan to say that Calvin's doctrine is based on ignorance rather than knowledge.

 

Please look up a word before you pretend to know what it is. Here is "regeneration" from Webster's Dictionary:

In theology, new birth by the grace of God; that change by which the will and natural enmity of man to God and his law are subdued, and a principle of supreme love to God and his law, or holy affections, are implanted in the heart.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

"it" is the gift of God. "It" is the whole of salvation by grace through faith. Faith is included in the gift.

2 Timothy 1:5-6 when I call to remembrance the genuine faith that is in you, which dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am persuaded is in you also. 6 Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.

Paul remembers the faith that is in Timothy and urges him to stir up the "gift of God" that is in him. Gift of God equals faith here.

1 Corinthians 12:7-9 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit,

Faith is one of the gifts of the Spirit. Why, if it is not a gift of God?

Philippians 1:29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake

Both suffering and faith are seen as being "granted" (given) by God. And it does not just mean "allowed." The Greek word is charidzomai, which means "gifted, given, bestow on."

John 6:65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

We've talked about this one before, but it is pretty obvious what it says. The only ones who come (believe) are those to whom it has been granted (given).

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

Here, repentance (the corrolary to faith), is granted (given) to the Gentiles by God.

Acts 3:12-16 So when Peter saw it, he responded to the people: "Men of Israel, why do you marvel at this? Or why look so intently at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk? 13 "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. 14 "But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 "and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses. 16 "And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

The faith that healed this man came through Jesus. It was not in this man to begin with, but when Jesus' name was preached, faith came.

Romans 11:5-8 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. 7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day."

Here, faith is not given to Israel, but blindness is.

2 Thessalonians 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace

God has given us everlasting consolation and good hope. Good hope is faith (the substance of things hoped for). God gives it to us.

 

Did you read none of the 9 verses that I quoted that showed that faith is a gift from God? Obviously, if the father had any faith, it was from God, since the 9 verses that I quoted show that it is a gift from God. Notice he asks Jesus to "help" his unbelief. It sounds like he is asking Jesus (God) to give him a little more of what He had already given him.

Read my first two sentences in above response. The apostles ask the Lord (God) to increase what He had already given them. Of course it is "ours" once God gives it to us.

Is a person supposed to humble someone else? A person is responsible for their own pride and humility. And they are held accountable for refusing to be humble. The fact that God must give someone faith before they will be willing to be humble in no way changes this.

Why do you post a verse that Calvinists have no problem with like its a slam-dunk or something? This verse says NOTHING about what must happen in that person before they will be willing to "receive the kingdom of God as a little child." BTW, I don't go preach to an unbeliever that they must wait for a work of God to believe. I plead with them to believe. I pray that God would work in their hearts to make them willing. This is the biblical method of preaching the gospel.

Since you didn't deal with my reply to this the first time you typed it, I will just copy and paste my original reply:

"You take one verse out of context to say that God calls many who are not chosen??? The "many called" are the ones to whom the general call of the gospel goes out, such as when an evangelist stands on the street corner and proclaims the gospel. This is not the call of God. The call of God comes to a person's heart and effects what it sets out to do."

But you do need to read "dicshunaries" to understand language. If you are going to use a technical term like regeneration, you need to understand what it means and how it is used throughout Scripture. It helps to know at least a little (that's all I know) about Greek and Hebrew if you are going to, on a theology board, discuss verses that were originally written in Greek and Hebrew.

 

There's one little problem: the Greek word is pisteuson, which is translated variably "believe, have faith," so faith is in that verse.

As for it being an aorist, that proves nothing. Most verbs in narrative sections are aorist. Aorist is the most popular verb form in Koine Greek. Moulton has said that the aorist presents "an event as a single whole, without regarding the time taken in its accomplishment." Simply put, aorist is not necessarily a past tense, nor a present tense, nor a future tense, but can be used in all three instances.

 

"Leap of Faith" was a phrase thought to be coined by Soren Kierkegaard to describe Christian faith which is not based on empiracle reason. Although no reference to this phrase can be found in his works, it would certainly fit his system and would, most likely, go against everything you believe.

 

That is the biggest bunch of baloney I have ever read. You have judged God completely by a set of man's standards, holding Him up to man's laws and ways, making Him accountable to man's definitions, and determining that if He is really like He says He is in the Bible then He is more guilty than we. Please stop making philosophical and sociological arguments against Calvinism and make Scriptural arguments.

A person is guilty/condemned because of Adam (Romans 5). They continue being condemned because they have not believed. They are justified by faith. We do not have an argument here. This point that you made is exactly what Calvinists believe.

We know these verses are there and love them just as much as you do. You are quoting verses that do not disprove our points. Come up with one that says that all men are able and willing to believe (not just one that commands all men to believe) and I will change my view. I've already shown you verses that show that all men are not able and willing to believe, so the ball is still in your court.

The "Foundation" is Scripture, not man's philosophical ideas about who God must be.