...His Bride, in whom His spirit dwells, (He who now letteth)...
I don't believe the one holding back the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:7-8) can be the Holy Spirit because many Christians will still be on the earth during the Antichrist’s rule (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13), and no one can be a Christian without the Spirit (Romans 8:9).
I don't believe the one holding back the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:7-8) can be the church because many Christians will still be on the earth during the Antichrist’s rule (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13), and there are no Christians outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).
...And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming...
Indeed, Paul made clear that Jesus' coming (parousia, 1 Thessalonians 4:15) and our gathering together to him could not occur until after the apostasy and the appearance of the Antichrist, for Jesus' coming (parousia, 2 Thessalonians 2:8) to gather us together must destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). There's no 3rd coming (parousia) of Jesus.
...Christ does not set foot upon
the mount of Olives...
Again, I believe it's possible we will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air on his way down to set his feet on the earth.
Because 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 shows Jesus "coming," but doesn't show him landing on the earth, some believe it refers to a U-turn coming of Jesus whereby he comes only as far as the clouds and then returns to heaven. But Matthew 24:29-31 doesn't show Jesus landing on the earth either. Do some then believe that Matthew 24:29-31 is also not the 2nd coming?
1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 doesn't show Jesus returning to heaven. Acts 1:11 says Jesus will "come" just as he left: he won't come only as far as the clouds and then return to heaven again, just as he didn't leave only as far as the clouds and then return to earth again. He went from the Mount of Olives to the clouds to heaven, he will come from heaven to the clouds to the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4). There's no 3rd coming of Jesus.
In the parable of the 10 virgins, some believe the wise virgins must be taken in a pre-trib rapture. But the door is closed at Christ's coming (Matthew 25:10, compare Luke 13:24-28), which Jesus had just finished saying would be "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31). There's no 3rd coming of Christ.
Note that in the Bible, "watching" doesn't mean staring up in the sky waiting for something to happen at any moment; it means to stay awake (Matthew 26:38-41).
"And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation" (Matthew 26:40-41). Here Jesus wasn't saying "Watch with me for the imminent rapture for one hour" or "Watch for the imminent rapture that ye enter not into temptation," but "Stay awake with me for one hour," and "Stay awake and pray, that ye enter not into temptation."
Jesus made clear we must stay spiritually awake for his coming (Matthew 24:42-48, 25:13; Mark 13:35-36), and that his coming to gather us would not be until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27). There's no 3rd coming of Christ.
...ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh...
I believe this warning and that of Matthew 24:50 is for backsliders (verse 49), and that Christ will come like a thief for us only IF we fall asleep spiritually (Revelation 3:3, 1 Thessalonians 5:4-6).
...comfort one another with these words...
Note that 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 says nothing regarding the timing of the rapture in relation to the tribulation, for tribulation and comfort aren't opposed to each other:
"Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation" (2 Corinthians 1:3-7).
In 1 Thessalonians 4:18, Paul meant we're to comfort each other that we'll see our loved ones again, and that all of us -- no matter whether we live or die -- will be resurrected or raptured at Christ's coming.
...when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them...
I believe this refers to the destruction that will come upon the unsaved at the end of the tribulation and at the 2nd coming.
At the death of the two witnesses, at the end of the 42-month reign of the Antichrist, I believe the unsaved will rejoice and make merry and give gifts to one another (Revelation 11:10), thinking that now all is peace and safety, that now the Antichrist can rule unimpeded without any more plagues coming on the earth (Revelation 11:6). But little will they know that sudden destruction is about to come upon them with the 7 vials of God's wrath and Jesus' coming:
"Thy wrath is come.. that thou shouldest... destroy them which destroy the earth" (Revelation 11:18).
"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe" (2 Thessalonians 1:9-10).
"Then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming" (2 Thessalonians 2:8).
...In Luke 12:36 the Word states that when Christ returns He will be returning from a wedding...
That is only in one parable, which says we must watch for that coming (Luke 12:36-40, compare Matthew 24:42).
...According to Jewish custom the marriage...
Some teach that purported ancient Jewish wedding customs require a pre-trib rapture, but they don't cite the ancient Jewish sources for any wedding customs that would require a pre-trib rapture.
Be careful not to be led astray by any "traditions" or teachings of men that are not in the Bible itself (Colossians 2:8, 2 Timothy 4:3-4).
...the groom goes to the bride's house unannounced...
What ancient Jewish source says this? The Bible says Christ's coming to us will be announced (Matthew 25:6).
...the groom takes the bride to his father's house...
What ancient Jewish source says this? Just as Isaac took his bride into his mother's house (Genesis 24:67), and Jacob did not return to his father's house until some 13 years after his wedding (the 20 years of Genesis 31:41 minus the 7 years of Genesis 29:20), so John 14:2-3 doesn’t require that the rapture take us into heaven, for here Jesus doesn't say he'll take us into heaven. What he says is he'll receive us unto himself, as does 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Matthew 24:29-31, and elsewhere.
The marriage supper itself will take place up in heaven, while down here on earth the final events of the tribulation are playing themselves out...
Note again that the Bible shows neither the judgment nor the marriage of the church nor the marriage supper as happening before or during the tribulation, or in heaven.
The marriage and supper are not announced until the 2nd coming, immediately before we descend with Christ at Armageddon (Revelation 19:7-9, 14).
"The bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage" (Matthew 25:10).
After the tribulation, I believe the rapture will gather us into the clouds to be judged (Psalms 50:4-5, Mark 13:27) and married (Revelation 19:7) before Armageddon. The supper will be on the earth after Armageddon (Revelation 19:17, Isaiah 25:5-9).
...Notice the fine linen white and clean is the righteousness of saints, which are in heaven...
Some say Jesus will come "for" believers at the rapture and then bring them "with" him from heaven at the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:14). But I believe the Bible says Jesus will come back once, both with and for his bride, for the spirits of the dead in Christ will return "with" Christ from heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:14) and their bodies will be resurrected (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Most of the church will be returning "with" Christ from the 3rd heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:14), as most of it will have died before or during the tribulation. But in Revelation 19:14 "heaven" is the 1st heaven, the sky, where Jesus is revealed to the nations, as in Matthew 24:30's "heaven."
I believe the purpose of the rapture is to gather the resurrected dead and the transformed living (1 Corinthians 15:51-52, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) all together in the sky with Jesus so that we can be judged (Psalms 50:4-5, Mark 13:27) and married (Revelation 19:7) in the clouds, before Armageddon.
This is why the wedding's consummation isn't announced until immediately before we descend with Christ at Armageddon (Revelation 19:7-14). I believe that after we've been judged and married, we'll all get on our white horses, the clouds will part, "heaven" will be "opened" (Revelation 19:11), and we'll all descend with Christ to the battle (Revelation 19:14-15), and then land in Jerusalem for the supper (Revelation 19:9, Isaiah 25:5-9).
...I believe that God will protect me through the tribulation if that is His Will for me...
While it says faithful Christians will suffer and die under the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13), it also says some Christians will be protected on the earth during the final period of the great tribulation by fleeing to a place prepared (Revelation 12:14, compare Matthew 24:15-16), for some must be "alive and remain" at Jesus' coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15).
...is it heretical to believe a post-tribulation doctrine?...
I don't believe eschatology itself can be heretical because a heretic can't be saved (Galatians 5:20-21), and we aren't saved by our eschatology (Romans 10:9-10).
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[ May 25, 2002, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: postrib ]
