Pre-Trib Premillennial Rapture

The comment was not meant to be caustic, and I apologize if it came across that way. It's just that your comment seemed to indicate that only pretribbers could have "the Blessed Hope", and I disagreed.

BTW, I believe the temple has already been established. Zech 6:12-13 says Messiah builds the temple. We are the temple, Christ is the cornerstone (Eph 2:20-22). Jews may place a granite or marble corner stone, but only because they'll still be stumbling over the real one (1 Pet 2:7-8).

 

You have no Scriptural authority to say that.
</font>[/QUOTE]There is scriptural authority for a "soon" coming, but maybe just not in the way many use it. Numerous scriptures say his coming is "at hand", "draweth nigh", etc.

 

I don't know of many places on the net that I would recommend for this. I don't use the theological sites much on here. They are for the most part worthless for serious study, IMHO.

I would recommend a number of books by John Walvoord, things by Alva McClain (The Greatness of the Kingdom), RL Thomas has several works that reference this. They are in print and can be found in any theological library and most public libraries have access to them.

 

1 Thess 4:13-17; 2 Thess 2 to start with. The apocalyptic passages in Matthew coincide perfectly with a pretrib position as well. This is demonstrated in a number of places.

Chris and I agreed that no other places mentions a thousand year period. Read more closely ... What I said was that the earthly reign, the Millennium, is substantiated in a number of other places.

This is most interesting. Since the earth is destroyed in 2 Peter 3:10-11 when Christ returns (according to Chris), which earth will he reign over? We agree there is an everlasting kingdom. However, we believe that you have simply jumped over some very important passages that describe the King ruling over Israel on this earth prior to its destruction.

 

I am not sure yet whether the rapture is going to be pre-trib are post, but I would really like to see the scriptures that back each up. Please help me make up my mind from the Bible!
thanks

God Bless
Matt

 

I do not believe either a pre or post trib rapture yet, because I have not been presented with enough scripture to tell me either way. I would really appreciate it if you guys would give me a hand in figuring this out.
thanks!

God Bless
Matt

 

I have found this to be an interesting thread.

It shows, most clearly, that humans will always view what God says in light of what they expect to hear.

This is not to say that some may not be correct, but I cannot stop thinking of the question to Jesus on the matter of being "born again", where He is asked; "Must I then again enter into my mother's womb to be born again?".

 

Well, Bro I usually agree with your political views but on this I have to part company. </font>[/QUOTE]Make, that Sister, please, not Bro. These aren't my political views. But it is Biblical prophecy being fulfilled in our life time!

The Quote above I gave from the Temple web site is Ezekiel, which these modern day Jews stated above. Don't know if it is in Talmud.

And it will happen. Jews don't believe Jesus Christ was the Messiah. And they do plan to offer sacrifices in the rebuilt temple which is why they have been seeking to produce a perfect spotless red heifer (which was finally born and declared "kosher" by the rabbis a couple of months ago...see my previous red heifer thread).

And the anti-christ will sacrifice a pig on the alter in the rebuilt third temple.

It is all so plain and backed up by Prophetic Scripture and practically daily events. I don't understand how everyone can't see we are living in the last days before the imminent return of Jesus Christ for His Bride!


Just thought I'd clarify.

 

quote:
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Originally posted by EagleLives911:
It was earlier in this thread stated thus: The fact is there is no scripture that teaches of... A Rebuilt Jerusalem Temple.

Well, according to the Jews, they believe there IS to be a rebuilt temple according to Scripture! (Of course, they base their beliefs on the OT prophecies.)

---

So your defense is not Scripture but what unbelievers are promoting. Pitiful.

My reply:

Actually, no, you didn't read what I posted! I said Jews in rebuilding the Third Temple (as proven by their own web site), base their beliefs on Ezekial and the OT. What is pitiful is that you misinterpreted my post.

quote:--------------------------------------------
He's coming Soon!
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You have no Scriptural authority to say that. Your statement is in direct contradiction of the words of Christ Jesus in Acts 1:7: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by His own authority."

My reply: That's a pretty unfair statement! Did I set a date?

I believe I do have Scriptural authority to say Jesus is coming soon based on what Jesus Himself said! He said we can see the signs! Read what Jesus said in Matthew 24, the parable of the fig tree, for one. The days of Noah, wars & rumors of wars, and the rest. He IS coming soon!

(sigh)
Boy, some people around here sound like the people must have in Noah's day!

Repent! The world is going to be destroyed! Repent or perish! Get ready! It is going to rain! God is judging this wicked world and the world will be covered with water & rain! Repent! The hour is at hand!

120 years later.....

Repent! The hour is at hand!

AHHHHHHHHHH HAHHHHHHHHH! Old Noah, you old wind bag! You're crazy, man! What's rain? You mean that mist that waters the earth? HAAAAAA! You are so crazy, man! Get Real! Hey, Look, everybody, that old Noah, he must...

huh? What's with all the animals heading over here? What, man, what's the deal? There's a couple of lions, and elephants, and, oh man, what's happening here?

That crazy Noah and his family, what nuts!

Repent! Judgment is coming! You will be left outside! Only those who repent can be saved & come into the ark!

Yeah, right, old man. You are going to be gasping for air and die in the heat in that big old box!

SLAM! GOD SHUTS THE DOOR! Noah can't open it even if he tries because God shut it!

drip...drip...drip...drip.drip.drip.dripdripdripdripdripdrip....

The Ark is a type of Christ. The Ark is also a type of the Rapture (snatching away)...escape from God's judgment on this wicked world.

You either believe Jesus is Coming Soon or you don't. I happen to believe He is! First appearing in the clouds when the trump shall sound and He gathers His bride. Then 7 years of Tribulation. Then the Second Coming of Christ when He touches the earth with His feet and splits the Mt. of Olives in two! Then 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ, Lion of the Tribe of Judah, with a rod & fist of iron....sitting upon the throne in Jerusalem.

Believe it or not! If you choose not to listen for the trumpet & the dead in Christ to rise first and for your change to a glorified body in the twinkling of an eye, that is your choice. However, I am listening & watching prophetic events unfold all around, practically as daily headlines for the first time in my life! My generation shall not pass away until all these things come to pass, Jesus said. And I was born in 1949, the year after Israel officially became a Nation again, as was prophesied.

 

Why is that? It could only be dangerous if one has something to fear! I'm looking forward to seeing Jesus, so how could that ruin my spiritual health?

 

Which part of the above verses leads you to believe that this is at the Rapture. No one believes that. You have attacked a view that nobody holds. This passages probably refers to Rev 20:11 where the heavens and earth flee away. What should be noted here is that this follows the earthly reign of Christ. So this passage does not help you in the least.

The question you must answer is that if Revelation is true, how can the coming of the Lord following that be as a thief in the night? There would be seven years (1260 days times 2) of signs of his coming. You are right that it can't be any clearer. You are wrong that you have been a help.

How much of Walvoord, McClain, Thomas and other pretribbers have you actually read? It seems that you are basing your views on a caricature rather than dealing with the actual verses at hand.

 

Do you really think that your opinion is the best way to judge what correct doctrine is and what is healthy for the church? This idea of imminency extends all the way to the first century. Christians in the first century believe exactly what we believed. It was not until the 3-400s that it changed, not because of exegesis, but because of people doing what you accuse the pretribs of doing, namely reading theology in light of the time. They expected a soon coming and when it didn't happen, they changed their views about the millennium.

But alas, this has been beat up pretty good on here before, and it is not convincing the other side. Hopefully some of it will affect the middle people.

My only encouragement to them is to realize that in spite of the Amil's loud voices and constant statements, there is plenty of exegesis to refute their position. See both sides of it.

[ June 06, 2002, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]