"MARK" of the Beast (bring calculator)

Your method of interpretation is nonsense. Jesus did indeed speak to the multitudes (made up of a primarily Jewish audience) He quoted Isa.6:9,10 in Matthew 13:15, which was aimed directly at the Jews, the unbelieving Jews, the Pharisees and scribes in particular. Their hearts had waxed gross. They were the leaders of the nation who had led the nation astray. Jesus gives them even greater condemnation in Matthew 23.

As for knowing one parable, you know them all, bit of nonsense, this also is not true. Time and time again, the disciples went to Jesus and had Him explain the parable to them PLAINLY. He did not speak in mysteries to his disciples. God does not speak in mysteries to his children, which makes me question if your are one of His.

Acts 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)

You are like the Athenians. You spend your time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing. They were not saved. They rejected Paul as a babbler, and one who set forth a strange god. Is this your position also?
DHK

[ April 23, 2002, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

Post-it: I have been thinking about mustard seed, mustard, and ham sandwich.

Ham was one of Noah's three sons. Ham has three letters. Ham's descendant was Nimrod who built the tower of Babel. Nimrod has six letters! The tower of Babel was built to reach the stars! If you take "star" out of mustard, you are left with "mud." Mud also has three letters. If you multiply 333 (Noah's 3 sons, # of letters in Ham's name, and # of letters in mud) x 2, you get 666, Ken's topic! See, it all fits!

 

Now that was funny. I wonder how long you worked on coming up with that one.

 

Star, it did answer your question about Tyre. How was it holiness? Because it was no longer a thorn in the side of God's children. The wealth and 'bragging rights' of Tyre now belonged to the children of God.

And if you want to continue your cheerleading for Ken, feel free. I only point out those discrepancies I see, especially when they take a verse out of context or twist a word in order to support a viewpoint. If you fail to see the truth in what I pointed out--using porneia as love instead of agape--then so be it.

 

(rotfl ) Congradulations, I think you have just graduated Ken's "numerology and secret meanings" advanced course.

Maybe you should write all this down on your own website like Ken. Soon you will have people like Star helping you spread this deep insight on Christian boards.

 

Well I hope it gets deeper then the mockery and bickering that the world currently sees in Christianity. I suppose where some can't stop bickering about the plain and simple truth of Christ in the gospels one really can't dive headlong into the beauties of the mysteries but to each his own. I love what I see of Him, I make no appologies for that. But go on now each one to his own board to quarreling over ceremonial washings, tithes,the length of ones dress or hair even whether one can dance or not and the like. I'll stay right where I'm planted and enjoy my view thank you very much!

In Him Kim

[ April 23, 2002, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Star ]

 

Even if that view is based on poor interpretation and understanding of scripture?

I'll pray for you, Kim.

 

I don't think it is Don, it blesses me in Christ, I only have a greater faith in Him now. I know who I seek, and know who I have believed and entrusted my life and if it builds up my faith in Him and I can say, "Jesus Christ is Lord" who loved me and died for me and sanctifies me through faith in His work done on the cross, yes because I have not left the simplicity of devotion to Him or changed the foundation of my faith. I just love the mysteries concerning Him. I live to see His work God concealed in His foreknowledge. I never say to the baptist believe like me or your lost, I never say to the Catholic believe like me or your lost. Simple faith in Jesus Christ and His work on the Cross, thats it, its God who works in you to do His good pleasure. The new covenant promise is that He writes His laws in our hearts. Hoping to be made perfect in love, rather simple without getting too "mechanical" in explanation.

But thank you for your prayers, I appreciate the gesture.

In Him Kim

 

Star, I've showed you on more than one occasion where Ken's--and some of your--beliefs are based on scriptures taken out of context, and specifically in this thread, showed where one of Ken's beliefs is based on a word that is twisted to mean something else.

You can refuse to acknowledge that all you want, even though you haven't even tried to show that I'm wrong (but attempted to coerce an agreement despite the fact that the word was wrongly used)--well, that's the definition of "poor interpretation and understanding of scripture."

 

Don,

I don't think you have showed me anything, I understand where your coming from though. Look at Revelation look then into the concrete term for "Hail" for instance. There isn't a snowballs chance in the frying pan that you will see it defined as anything more then "ice balls" simply put, but THAT is NOT how we define anything. To compare "spiritual" with "spiritual" your going to see "concrete terms" and its not the "dictionary" that moves you past them to assimilate them as God choses to use them. I for instance see them as "Cold stones" (Ice cold to Christ) remember Christ said I wish ye were "hot" (coals of fire) or "cold" (Hail) I also see the term used for "greeting" and in other places "figurative". Yet its THESE in Rev (Hail) speaking the "greeting" Hail both are combined as one. "Hail" sweeps away the refuge of lies.

I think we already went there on another post, but I see it pointing to the Cross (thanks to Ken). Just like the "moon turning to blood" will the moon in "outer space" turn to blood? Is THAT what you think? Look at the "Beast with six wings" will you see a literal beast with six wings flying around? How about a Red dragon in the sky? Will a lady really stand on the literal moon with the moon under her feet? I mean "woman" means "woman" right? "Moon" means "moon"? Wing means "wing" see what I'm getting at? Streets of Gold? Are they not defined in scripture and not in a dictionary? So just because Christ is mentioned as a "Rock" if I run to my dictionary (though this ones way too obvious to be missed by scholars) will I find a "mineral"? Obviously some things are already expounded on, others hinted at, some untouched altogether.

If all I needed to understand the scriptures was a dictionary why didn't Christ tell me that? Why offer the Spirit to lead you into all truth?

Don't get me wrong, the simplicity of the gospel message is the same, the simplicity of devotion unchanged but when looking into His word I see great things in it and how unsearchable they are. Theres similitudes, words of encouragement, Gods plan of redemption in Christ that He hid in His word, theres spiritual truths, prophetic truths etc you get the picture I already know this and see these things, I'm concentrating on what interests me at this point in my walk.

Do I go around telling this sort of thing to my mom or neighbor? No way, I tell them simply of Jesus Christ. No drawing anything elaborate as you would call it. I'm not unflexible in that way, and I'm not "preaching" to anyone just sharing what I see, if it doesn't bless "let it go" I'm sharing like everyone else in my own way.Simply put. I'm not accusing Christ of some dreaful thing its not the way I'm presenting it or what is meant in my heart its the way its percieved.

In Him Kim

 

Absolutely right, Kim: In some places, we see pictures. In others, we don't. When we see a specific statement ("He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."), which includes a word that specifically means "illicit sexual intercourse," we don't turn that specific statement into a pictorial, thus changing the meaning; and then turn the word that means "illicit sexual intercourse" into "love," changing the context of the specific statement.

If that were a true way of interpreting things, then, by golly, we'd have to let every rapist and pedophiliac on the planet out of jail, now wouldn't we?

 

Star, I know that you think that I have been mocking you and Ken. Yet you will find that I have never mocked any other person in any thread. Why do you think you are an exception. The truth is that I have not mocked you or Ken. You both have failed to create any type of argument with which to debate, yet you keep asking people to debate the issues.

Each of you quote scripture then "hint" at what it could mean. Since this is not a proper way of teaching or debating, I nor anyone else here have been able to climb your slippery hill of hidden claims in debate form.

As such, my only recourse has not been a debate, but rather a like expression to reveal the deception.

Everyone else except you understands that I am not mocking you but rather copying your methods to reveal the fallacious ways you are writing your deceptive posts.

If you ever get around to wanting to debate, then make your premises and conclusions, stop hinting at shadows. One way of winning a debate is not to debate, a method Ken has perfected.

 

Do you base the correctness of a doctrine, or interpatation on how it makes you feel?

There are many sincere christians following false teachers/doctrines becasue of their feelings, and experiences.
They feel blessed, but that doesn't make it true. Measure everythng against scripture, not feelings, experiences.

 

Don,

Just by what you said I can tell you missed every point. Love doesn't rape another person, or hurt another, I'm not at all justifying or condoning those things whatsoever.

I take it as Christ sent into the World to the lost sheep of the house of Isreal, I'm seeing it in a beautiful spiritual picture of Christ reaching outside of the first covenant marriage into another covenant marriage including the "Gentiles". It neither contradicts whats already established, I'm just seeing it "differently". As it pertains to Christ I see it "holy" and beautiful and full of love for mankind. Gentiles were considered "dogs" he was giving what was holy to Dogs. I'm seeing very concrete terms softened in the Light of who He is and what He has done.

I have to run my daughter needs me.
In Him Kim

 

Katie,
I base correct interpretation according to the understanding I presently have according to both the scriptures (I'm not quoting a comic book here) and looking at the words and principles in many places before drawing any conclusions. Eternal life is to Know God, the truth is in us in our hearts and in our mouths the very thing Paul quoted that is also included in Old testament scripture. The only doctrine that matters for salvation is Christ and Him crucified and walking by the Spirit in obedience to His commands which is to love both God and the brotherhood of believers, I extend that also to those who don't believe.

Under the Curse of the law one has "sorrow of mind" in Christ a "sound mind" under the law as Paul was is "hating and being hated" theres Joy in the Lord, peace in the Lord, in fact He is those things. So do I sense these things? Yes I do I won't lie, but I'm not following any teachers I've been alone in Christ for twelve years with the exception of a few other people I fellowship with. Having only one year inside institutional christianity. I left for various reasons and unkindnesses but mostly I wanted to learn of Christ. I found a bunch of bickering christians biting and devouring each other and I wasn't too sure if what I saw mirrored the truth.

Being constantly bombarded with "this is false", "that is false" "anti Christ, new age videos, "beware", "beware", "beware". Tell you the truth I could see truth because He was so crowded by what was false I could only depend on others to discern. Their voices were crowding my own ability to seek the Truth and listen for myself. I had to figure no one knew what they were talking about. I started reading the tower of babel and deep inside I felt I was living in it. Every denomination had it wrong and those I sat with were always the keepers of the truth. I feel really bad for new christians to tell you the truth who go in and who might not want to stay but get that, "forsake not the assembling together of yourselves" as if thats the part of the Ten commandments and if you do your then quoted, "They went out from us because they are not of us" Well gee, theres times God says, "Come out my people".

I want to learn about Christ, not dress lengths. I want to learn of him prophetically, I want to see How God hid Him, I want to learn everything but I can't learn about Him in Church, I'm not given bread I'm given a stone. Talk about love but don't see it.

So I want Christ... Him or nothing, what you call false I see Christ in and He alone is the Truth. Truth is a person, His Name is Jesus Christ and I place my entire trust in Him, so to question my "doctrine" I really only see Him in there.

To make a human argument if I'm wrong He can lead me straight no doubt, I trust Him. I have questions like everyone of you have questions but I'm not about to take a majority vote on what I see because its mine, I see it as precious, another sees it as false I'm not changing my mind because you are not blessed, see what I mean?

I could say that those who do not see Christ (In Daniel) putting an end to sacrifices and offerings (Being Him who was cut off) as really in denial of what Christ has done because theres some real relevant peices of who he was and what he came to do there as far as bring in everlasting righteousness by imputing His to us, But I don't, because where you are is before the Lord, I'm not to judge you if I did I'd be disobedient to Him. I'm never going to condemn anyones faith for not being "like mine" in regards to Jesus Christ. He's big enough to lead anyone trusting in Him.

So as far as casting stones on differences in doctrines (or understanding) I find it fruitless to quarrel about the non essentials. The essential is Jesus Christ... and yes I know I know about a "different Jesus" but I'm neither talking about circumcision or a licence to do wrong, so before that argument springs forth I'll bail out because I don't like to argue, just share. So I hope I told you something you want to know, if not lets just part ways in agreeing to "disagree".

In Him Kim

 

Star, I don’t disagree with everything you have said, in fact, I believe that Jesus is found all through the Old Testament. You have just added many extras, that don’t make sense or have been used out of context. When one starts doing that, it can backfire and that which created a greater faith in you now rips it away expotenially.

It is worse to have tasted sugar which is sweeter but temporary - than remained with honey which is less-sweet but never ending.

The fall is much the same as those poor souls who were converted because they thought Jesus was returning in the year 2000, or that 9-11 was the sign of the end times. Then when Jesus didn’t make his predicted appearance, they dropped their belief. They were just information junkies with a high that lasted until the truth is revealed. They then discount all Christianity and faith in Jesus.

That has been my concern and fear for you since I saw your first posts. I cringe at the thought that some time soon, it will all come crashing down on you and you leave Christ entirely or you follow the next “new found secrets as never before revealed.”

 

Post it,

I would like to see a debate on the "other end", mockery is not a two sided debate, its making fun of something shared. If you CARED that I was in "error" how is "mocking" going to win your case with me? As I said before that calling something "foolishness" does not make it wrong on the contrary theres more in "mocking it" that makes it right according to scriptures, so what your doing is VALIDATING IT TO ME, understand what I'm saying?

You may Win/Lose your debates with Athiests (the debate, not the soul) using human arguments as "your" word returns void, but God promises His won't Give it a whirl were encouraged to do that.

You said, "each of you use scripture and hint at what it could mean" why not try asking Ken directly, "Where do you draw that thought"? How do you arrive there? That would be helpful. Then when all the evidence is in then load your gun and do what you do best and make a grand show for all your followers, it will be fun for you. They'll get a good laugh and your ego gets stroked fair enough?

I'd like to know how you have shown deception? How is it determined as "error" just because Joe Shmoe says so makes it so?

You said, Everyone else except you understands that I am not mocking you but rather copying your methods to reveal the fallacious ways you are writing your deceptive posts.

The methods you used showed nothing, the methods were not the same. No ones counting numbers of names and anything else you used to supposedly prove your point.

Whats this mean?

Wisdom has hewn her Seven pillars? Because I don't think according to my natural man that Wisdom has anything to do with Seven pillars, who is Wisdom? Why is it a "her" instead of "He"?

Just mock you'll save face.

The Seventh day to Paul had a spiritual significance in Light of entering OUR REST, I think theres much beauty to see and will not discount the inspired word or the things drawn because you enjoy entertaining others at someones expense.

And maybe if there was a "debate" Ken would debate, instead the thread is filled with anything but. Truly Ken doesn't care what he appears like anyhow He just drops it off..."poke fun, debate, or ask questions" he lets the lead be those around him. So if you want a serious discussion you could behave like you do if not you have no obligation to the conversation really, unless ofcourse the applause makes life worth living

So to make myself clear, I'm determining to know nothing I'm just looking for Christ and Him crucified and finding these things to be true as I search.If thats false whats true? You forget I don't post "numbers" take a look at my posts they are visible to everyone. BUT I do see some great things in what Ken shares to say I don't would be trying to avoid getting laughed at and caring what you think. So go back over the thread and look closely at my posts then your inclusion of me in your mockery on "that basis". I have no problems fellowshipping with Catholics, baptists, Athiests (Secular web) or "Kens" I just find what Ken says a bit more interesting then conversation on what length my skirt must be before its called a "Sin"... Can you blame me?

In Him Kim

 

Post it,

I can respect your last post and thank you for writing that openly. I'm not one for date setting or believing it, if its not revealed to me I take it with a grain of salt.

But I'll never leave what Christ has given to me of Himself, or should I more confidently say He'll never leave me. I'm not out looking for the pie in the sky, Christ in me brings me so much joy I can't see how some event could top it. In either case I'm not going no where or beliving nothing I'm uncomfortable with or does not register as True according to my present understanding. He's bigger then that post it, you know that in your heart. I don't just see Him as some divine Judge but one who sticks closer then a brother, if He'll leave the ninety nine for the one He'll come get me if I'm going astray and thats the confidence I have in Him. That which takes my joy away and leads me to doubt is not Him. Not in my eyes, because I know His gentleness and His great love for me that I have only began to scratch the surface of. When I do wrong I feel conviction (not a blow to my head) but a gentle nudge, some of whats out there condemning others in judgement is not the one that I know. So although Christians live in suspicion (of whose saved and whose not type mentality) telling anyone this is not really meant to convince you because unless you know this yourself (not speaking to you directly) everyone will just be wondering whether your t's are crossed and i's dotted type thing. But thats just the thing with our salvation that "blessed hope" and "assurance" if someone wishes to doubt or inspect thats ok, its human nature to do that, but it has no bearing on what I know is certain within me.

But I appreciate the kindness in your post and can see a "human being" in there... Thanks Now I wished I wasn't so hard on you with my previous post

In Him Kim

[ April 24, 2002, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: Star ]

 

Love also doesn't hurt your spouse by committing adultery behind his/her back.

I didn't miss the point at all...but you have.

If Ken can take a word--porneia, which means illicit sexual intercourse--and change it to mean agape-type love, and you accept that and support it, then you have no business saying rape or pedophilia is wrong.

Shouldn't we take the wrong out of their love, too?

The principle, as presented by Ken, is certainly there....

As I said, the verse Ken has used to justify divorce, was meant to emphasize honoring marraige. Changing the meaning of one word changes the context, and twists the verse to mean something else. In other words, Ken injected his own meaning into this verse, instead of drawing a meaning out of the verse.

[ April 24, 2002, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

Proverbs 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets

Proverbs 7:4 Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman

Proverbs 9:1 Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars

Matthew 11:19 ....But wisdom is justified of her children.

Luke 7:35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.