Salvation In the Millennial Kingdom?

Me4Him · Jan 16, 2009

OldRegular said:
V. Election
Election is God’s eternal choice of some persons unto everlasting life—not because of foreseen merit in them, but of His mere mercy in Christ—in consequence of which choice they are called, justified and glorified.

If that means "predestination", I don't believe it, "Foreknowledge", Yes, but Jesus's offer to Israel, "I would, you wouldn't", doesn't line up with the doctrine of predestination,

Jesus didn't reject Israel, they rejected him, for Jesus's offer to be valid, an alternate outcome had to be possible, which isn't possible if "predestinated".

Mt 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Furthermore it is the height of arrogance to state that you are the sole source of enlightenment by the Holy Spirit in the interpretation of Scripture. I have been accused of lacking humility on this forum but I have never made such a statement as you made above.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things,

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Paul:
Ga 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter,

You're arguing against scripture.

That is absolute foolishness. First you can't divide the Trinity into the Father and Son. Second Scripture teaches the following about God:

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;

Now perhaps your god changes but my God does not.

Israel doesn't believe God "Changed" either,

You're not "Jewish", are you???

OldRegular · Jan 16, 2009

Me4Him said:
If that means "predestination", I don't believe it,

So?

Me4Him said:

You're not "Jewish", are you???

Click to expand...

I am a Spiritual Jew, Abraham's seed, an heir according to the promise. [Galatians 3:29; Romans 2:28, 29; Colossians 2:11]

Me4Him · Jan 17, 2009

OldRegular said:
I am a Spiritual Jew, Abraham's seed, an heir according to the promise. [Galatians 3:29; Romans 2:28, 29; Colossians 2:11]

Motor oil consist of different compounds, each designed to do a specific job, but we refer to it as "Motor oil".

God is Three compounds, Father, Son, Spirit, each is designed to do a specific job, but we refer to them as "God".

However, when you understand the chemistry of the motor oil, you know which compound was designed for a particular Job.

And when you understand the "TRINITY", you know which compound was designed for particular job,

When you say "God", or "Motor oil", it shows you don't understand the various compounds and their particular function that combines to make the whole.

Scripture is as easy to understand as the "TRINITY",

when God is leading, (OT) Jesus is not,

Lu 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John:

When Jesus is Leading, (NT) God is not,

Lu 16:16 since that time the kingdom of God is preached, (Jesus/comforter)

During the trib, God goes back to leading, Jesus stops. (Pre trib rapture)

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (Comforter/Church)

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed,

Re 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, (Moses/Elijah, law/prophet) and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Think maybe you might need a chemistry lesson on the "Trinity"????

OldRegular · Jan 18, 2009

Me4Him said:
Motor oil consist of different compounds, each designed to do a specific job, but we refer to it as "Motor oil".

God is Three compounds, Father, Son, Spirit, each is designed to do a specific job, but we refer to them as "God".

However, when you understand the chemistry of the motor oil, you know which compound was designed for a particular Job.

And when you understand the "TRINITY", you know which compound was designed for particular job,

When you say "God", or "Motor oil", it shows you don't understand the various compounds and their particular function that combines to make the whole.

Scripture is as easy to understand as the "TRINITY",

when God is leading, (OT) Jesus is not,

Lu 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John:

When Jesus is Leading, (NT) God is not,

Lu 16:16 since that time the kingdom of God is preached, (Jesus/comforter)

During the trib, God goes back to leading, Jesus stops. (Pre trib rapture)

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (Comforter/Church)

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed,

Re 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, (Moses/Elijah, law/prophet) and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Think maybe you might need a chemistry lesson on the "Trinity"????

I think you need a lesson in hermeneutics. You have taken a bunch of disjointed Scripture, mixed in a little, well a lot, of motor oil and come up with "nothing".

Furthermore you apparently do not understand the Trinity. You attempt to make three gods instead of one God with three persons.

God
There is but one God, the Maker, Preserver and Ruler of all things, having in and of Himself, all perfections, and being infinite in them all; and to Him all creatures owe the highest love, reverence and obedience.

The Trinity
God is revealed to us as Father, Son and Holy Spirit each with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence or being.

Amy.G · Jan 18, 2009

Me4Him said:
Motor oil consist of different compounds, each designed to do a specific job, but we refer to it as "Motor oil".

God is Three compounds, Father, Son, Spirit, each is designed to do a specific job, but we refer to them as "God".

However, when you understand the chemistry of the motor oil, you know which compound was designed for a particular Job.

And when you understand the "TRINITY", you know which compound was designed for particular job,

When you say "God", or "Motor oil", it shows you don't understand the various compounds and their particular function that combines to make the whole.

Scripture is as easy to understand as the "TRINITY",

when God is leading, (OT) Jesus is not,

Lu 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John:

When Jesus is Leading, (NT) God is not,

Lu 16:16 since that time the kingdom of God is preached, (Jesus/comforter)

During the trib, God goes back to leading, Jesus stops. (Pre trib rapture)

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (Comforter/Church)

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed,

Re 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, (Moses/Elijah, law/prophet) and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Think maybe you might need a chemistry lesson on the "Trinity"????

Sounds like Oneness Pentecostal to me.

OldRegular · Jan 18, 2009

Amy.G said:
Sounds like Oneness Pentecostal to me.

Amy.G

Apparently my education needs updated. I have seen that term Oneness Pentecostal used several times on this Forum but I am just not familiar with it. I generally try to keep abreast of false or heretical teachings but have missed that one. Guess I will have to do a little research.

Amy.G · Jan 18, 2009

OldRegular said:
Amy.G

Apparently my education needs updated. I have seen that term Oneness Pentecostal used several times on this Forum but I am just not familiar with it. I generally try to keep abreast of false or heretical teachings but have missed that one. Guess I will have to do a little research.

You can call me just Amy.

Basically OP says that God manifests Himself as only one person at one time. He was the Father in the OT, the Son when Jesus was on earth and the Holy Spirit after Jesus ascended, but not 3 persons at one time.

Here's an article for you.

OldRegular · Jan 18, 2009

Amy.G said:
You can call me just Amy.

Basically OP says that God manifests Himself as only one person at one time. He was the Father in the OT, the Son when Jesus was on earth and the Holy Spirit after Jesus ascended, but not 3 persons at one time.

Here's an article for you.

Thanks Amy!:love2:

Allan · Jan 18, 2009

OldRegular said:
Thanks Amy!:love2:

It is also called 'Modalism'.

OldRegular · Jan 19, 2009

Allan said:
It is also called 'Modalism'.

Thanks Allan. I have read about Modalism, I believe in Harold O. J. Brown's book Heresies years ago but had forgotten.

thomas15 · Jan 20, 2009

OldRegular said:
No use to change anything since I disagree with you both. However, I do agree that there are two resurrections. The first , that of Jesus Christ, occured some 2000 years ago. The second, the general resurrection as prophesied in John 5:28, 29, is yet to come.

Then of course there were those in Mat. 27:52, and Lazarus, what about Lazarus. And that little girl, and that guy who fell out of the window.

OldRegular · Jan 20, 2009

Originally Posted by OldRegular
No use to change anything since I disagree with you both. However, I do agree that there are two resurrections. The first , that of Jesus Christ, occured some 2000 years ago. The second, the general resurrection as prophesied in John 5:28, 29, is yet to come.

Response Posted by thomas15
Then of course there were those in Mat. 27:52, and Lazarus, what about Lazarus. And that little girl, and that guy who fell out of the window.

Those were not resurrections. Those who came out of the grave after the resurrection of Jesus Christ returned to the grave.[1 Corinthians 15:23] The others mentioned were simply restored to life; they died again.

When we are resurrected we will never die again. Read 1 Corinthians 15:54, or if you require more information start with 1 Corinthians 15:42 and read the remainder of the chapter. Or better yet read the entire chapter.

thomas15 · Jan 20, 2009

OldRegular said:
Those were not resurrections. Those who came out of the grave after the resurrection of Jesus Christ returned to the grave.[1 Corinthians 15:23] The others mentioned were simply restored to life; they died again.

When we are resurrected we will never die again. Read 1 Corinthians 15:54, or if you require more information start with 1 Corinthians 15:42 and read the remainder of the chapter. Or better yet read the entire chapter.

While I understand the point that you are trying to make, that is those who were resurrected previously (Lazarus for example) will have another final resurection, you are making the Bible fit your theology instead of the other way around. But freedom of religion and individual soul liberty allows you to do this my friend (and brother) in Christ.

OldRegular · Jan 20, 2009

thomas15 said:
While I understand the point that you are trying to make, that is those who were resurrected previously (Lazarus for example) will have another final resurection, you are making the Bible fit your theology instead of the other way around. But freedom of religion and individual soul liberty allows you to do this my friend (and brother) in Christ.

No I am not. The Apostle Paul states of the resurrection body:

1 Corinthians 15:42-58
42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43. It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56. The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

The Apostle also tells us that Jesus Christ was the first resurrection:

20. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

Acts 26:22, 23.
22. Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23. That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Now obviously Paul is talking about something different when he states that Jesus Christ should be the first that should rise from the dead than the rising from the dead of Lazarus. Either that or Paul is incorrect, which is not possible. Therefore, Paul in the above passage from Acts is talking about resurrection and in Corinthians is describing the resurrection body. The only resurrection to date is that of Jesus Christ.

thomas15 · Jan 21, 2009

Since rational debate with you OR is useless (based on a reading of this thread which has lasted 2+ years) I will give you the last word.

Having said that I'm sure you are a fine gentleman, a worthy soldier for Christ and the Gospel and I pray for the Lords blessing on your ministry.

OldRegular · Jan 21, 2009

thomas15 said:
Since rational debate with you OR is useless (based on a reading of this thread which has lasted 2+ years) I will give you the last word.

Having said that I'm sure you are a fine gentleman, a worthy soldier for Christ and the Gospel and I pray for the Lords blessing on your ministry.

I did not resurrect this thread. There were no posts from March 31, 2006 until December 31, 2008. I left this Forum sometime early in 2006 and only came back on before the election. Frankly I think my posts are rational but you are entitled to your opinion.

As far as I am concerned the thread can be closed since I don't believe any premillennialist has addressed the OP.

Marcia · Jan 22, 2009

OldRegular said:
Mortal people are supposedly born and die during the so-called millennial period. These mortal people coexist on earth with Saints in resurrected immortal bodies!

When Jesus Christ came the first time He took upon Himself the form of man. Faith in Jesus Christ as God Incarnate and Savior was and is essential.

If Jesus Christ returns to establish the so-called millennial kingdom He will return in the full Glory of the Godhead. Can mortal man look upon Jesus Christ in all His Glory and live?

If Jesus Christ is sitting on David's throne in Jerusalem in all the Glory of the Godhead for everyone to see what place does faith have?

The dispensationalists claim that bloody sacrifices will be reinstituted in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. For what purpose?

So I am curious, how are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom?

I and others answered/debated the issue is looking at Jesus.

From what little I know, I think that it is not bloody sacrifices that will be reinstuted, but the thank offerings and gift offerings (non-blood sacrifices) though I am not sure about this. It would be nice if someone who knows the relevant passages would post them. Zechariah?

PS If someone cannot answer a question, it does not mean the idea is false. It is difficult if not impossible to know how God is going to work out everything in the future. God just gives hints on most of this with little specific detail. Amils don't have all the answers, I bet, and if they do, that makes me wonder.

Ed Edwards · Jan 22, 2009

Ed Edwards said:
OldRegular: //The dispensationalists claim that bloody sacrifices will be reinstituted in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. For what purpose?//

Which dispensationalist?
What is their argument and scripture.

OldRegular: //So I am curious, how are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom?//

Your oft repeated question is A BAD QUESTION.
First of all, you don't belive that the Bible teaches
a 'millennial kingdom' but you want a Biblical answer.
Well then obviously you ask a hypocritical question from
your viewpoint. So isn't it even more hypocritical to
repeat the question over and over.

Here is I question I believe has a Biblical answer:
How to people get saved NOW?

(reacall also that some people, some preterists, beleive we
are living in the millennial kingdom RIGHT NOW.
So right up front you will know that whatever you answer
my quesiton, I'll be right back at you with: "well
that is how they get saved in the millennial kingdom.)

Yep, if I were thee, I'd say the OP was never answered.

Ed Edwards · Jan 22, 2009

Ed Edwards said:
npetreley: //As far as I can see, the Bible doesn't answer this question.
All it says is that at the end of the 1,000 years, satan
is let loose and manages to rally a lot of people.
I'm not sure that even relates to your question, but you'd
have a hard time convincing me that the people satan rallies are saved.//

Beautiful example of an answer. The question is NOT delt with directly
in the Bible. But principles are in the Bible. One of the principles
is that Satan (Lead Devil) cannot 'rally' the saved.
So there have to be some unsaved people after the Millinnial Messanic
Kingdom for Satan to deceive. Where do they come from?

Again, a question with no direct answer.
I beleive that the MOD (MOunt Olivet Discourse) of Jesus
is contained in Mattew chapters 24-25. The questions the disciples
asked are in Matthew 25:3

The signs of the destruction of the Temple (also signs of the
continuing Church age) are in Matthew 24:4-14.

The signs of the Second Coming of Jesus and the Tribulation SIGN
before it is in Matthew 24:14-30.

The signless pretribulation rapture (end of the age) is
in Matthew 24:31-44.

Matthew 24:45 through Matthew 25:30 are

Matthew 31-46 is NOT A PARABLE and disucsses the Sheep And Goat
NATIONS judgement. This judgement takes place at the end of the
Tribulation Period and before the Millinnial Messanic Kingdom.

On trial here are the nations other than Israel that were around
during the Tribulation Period. Recall that in general 5/6 of all
humanity dies in the Tribulation Period. Perchance some countries
will sill be half populated, some almost non-existant.
Anway, the nations will be judged.
All these nations are composed of unsaved people.
Those nations that in general
helped the Jewish/Israeli people (the BRETHEREN of JESUS) will go
into the Millinnial Messanic Kingdom.

Those nations that in general did not help the Jewish/Israeli people
in the Tribulation Period will be cast into hell. All the members of
the nation ARE NOT SAVED and were hell-bound anyway.

BTW, I strongly believe that there will be few if any gentiles
saved during the Tribulation Period (they sure won't go around
fooling the Antichrist like in Millionare LEFT BEHIND prophets for profit
may suggest)

So then there will be four classes of people (persons) in the
Millinnial Messanic Kingdom:

1. eternal - non-reproducing - God the Son
- Messiah Jesus, will rule with a rod of Iron:
directly Israel, indirectly (by Godly example/ perfect role
model of a leader/ etc) the whole world. The Gentile world will
beat a path to Israel, the model theocry.

2. eternal - non-reproducing - Church age elect saints
- Those who in the Judgement Seat of Christ were given
the reward of serving Jesus in the Millinnial Messanic Kingdom (MMK),
including the 12 apostiles (there are over 200 Million uncountable
Christians - way more than is needed to judge/administer a world
with a population only about 1 Billion (could be less) - not every
one of them will be rewared with service in the MMK

3. temporal - reproducing - Jewish/Isreaeli elect saints
- those protected in the widlerness by the very hand of God,
the O.T. heritage, the Promise of the Promised Land, the Godly
inhertance, the greatness of the nation Israel restored

4. temporal - reproducing - other nations, the Sheep nations
-Israel is only part of the world. These other nations (the meek)
shall inherit the rest of the earth.

But that is only what Ed gets out of reading the prophecies for
the last 54 years, less one month. The milage of others may vary.
See the latter chapters of Ezekiel and Zechariah, etc.

Yep, if I were thee, I'd say the OP was never answered :sleep:

Ed Edwards · Jan 22, 2009

thomas15 speaking to OldRegular said:
...

Having said that I'm sure you are a fine gentleman, a worthy soldier for Christ and the Gospel and I pray for the Lords blessing on your ministry.

Amen, Brother Thomas15 -- Preach it! :thumbs:

Salvation In the Millennial Kingdom?

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