Where is Hell?

I really do feel like this verse makes it clear that both groups were listening.

Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him

That kind of makes it clear, if they weren't there how could they have 'heard all these things'?

The 'THEM' in question is the WHOLE group mentioned at the beginning of the passage.

It is as clear as crystal to me.

God Bless

 

I would like to hear what you understand this to mean.

Neal</font>[/QUOTE]I would love to:

The Rich Man and Lazarus

"There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate full of sores. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores." Luke 16:19-21.

Who was the symbolic rich man? The Jews had been blessed above measure by a knowledge of God and his plan of salvation for all mankind. They had received "the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises." Romans 9:4. Only a Jew would pray to "Father Abraham," as we find the rich man doing later in the story. The Jewish nation was clearly represented by this character.

By contrast, Lazarus symbolized all those people in spiritual poverty--the Gentiles--with whom the Israelites were to share their heritage. The words of Isaiah were well known to the Jews, "I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth." Isaiah 49:6.

Unfortunately, the Jews had not shared their spiritual wealth with the Gentiles at all. Instead, they considered them as "dogs" who would have to be satisfied with the spiritual crumbs falling from their masters' tables. The metaphor was known. Jesus had used it before, testing the faith of the Canaanite woman, "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." She responded accordingly: "Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' tables." Matthew 15:26, 27.

The rich Jews had hoarded the truth, and in so doing had corrupted themselves. Only moments before relating this parable, Jesus had rebuked the Pharisees for their spiritual conceit, "Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God." Luke 16:15. What was to be the result of this terrible conceit?

"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence." Luke 16:26.

The Jews had enjoyed "the good life" while on earth but had done nothing to bless or enrich their neighbors. No further reward was due. "Woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger." Luke 6:24, 25.

Conversely, the poor in spirit, symbolized by Lazarus, would inherit the kingdom of heaven. The Gentiles who hungered and thirsted after righteousness would be filled. The "dogs" and sinners, so despised by the self-righteous Pharisees, would enter heaven before they would, "Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you." Matthew 21:31.

The parable concludes with the rich man begging for his brethren to be warned against sharing his fate. Asking Abraham to send Lazarus on this mission, he alleges that "if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent." Luke 16:30. Abraham replies, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Verse 31.

Jesus thus rebuked the Pharisees for their disregard of the Scriptures, foreseeing that even a supernatural event would not change the hearts of those who persistently rejected the teachings of "Moses and the prophets." The miracle of raising the real-life Lazarus from the dead soon afterwards confirmed the accuracy of Jesus' conclusion. One did rise from the dead, yet the brothers of the "rich man" did not repent. In fact, the Pharisees even plotted to kill Lazarus after his resurrection. His very life was a reminder to them of their own hypocrisy.

This parable shows us that having worldly wealth and riches does not denote divine favor, and that if someone cannot see God from His Word, the Holy Bible, not even someone who has been dead, could convince them.

That's my take on it.

I think it is beautiful how Jesus made every point into a parable. Makes you think about it.

That's why He kept saying 'Let him who has an ear HEAR, what the Spirit says to the Church'

God Bless

 

Ok, this is getting confusing. WHY does it matter WHO He was talking to? My point is that He began a sermon with a parable, and broke in the middle to reprimand the Pharisees. He then picked right back up where He left off, and went into some more parables.

The whole group heard Him. He was adressing the Pharisees when He rebuked them.

Are you trying to say that the "Rich man Lazarus" parable/ tale was for the Pharasees only?

Please tell me what you are getting at.

In my original comment that you keep posting, my point, which I thought I made clear, was that Jesus did not LEAVE where He was, and there was no note that the group left Him alone with the Disciples. In that case He could have been relating a non parable, because He did speak plainly to the Disciples. But according to the text as a whole none of that took place. He started a sermon and finished it. All, BUT His reprimanding the Pharisees, were parables.

The continuity of that passage is very aparent to me, but I guess that is just my take on it!

God Bless.

 

It doesn't, remember why this argument started?

The Rich Man and Lazarus PARABLE.

We were debating if it was a parable or a real story.



I still think it is a parable.

 

Me2,

What religion is that?
I have never heard that kind of doctrine before!

Jesus saves us from the penalty for sin.

He died, therefore defeating death.

We aren't literally 'saved' yet. We have the hope of His return, which THEN He will save us from death.

From 'the second death' in the Lake Of Fire.

It is appointed unto men once to die, and after this, judgement.

Once judged the person will either spend eternity in the New Heaven and New Earth, or will die the 'second death' in the Lake of Fire.

Jesus died once for all, YES, but if a person does not have HIS blood on their record in the Book of Life, then their sin record will be what is judged.

The penalty for sin is Death.

If I have the Blood on my record, then NO SIN will be there and I will live.

BUT anyone who did not ask Jesus for forgiveness and recieve Him as their Savior, their record still shows, and they must suffer the consequences.

They are not being punished for something someone else did. They made a choice. The path they chose was not life. It was death.

God Bless.

 

No problem,

Ok, so to the original point of where is hell.

I think what I really want to get clear is where AND when is hell.

There seems to be some confusion between different denominations as to the nature of hell and when and where it will take place.

Some think it is NOW, that people are there burning now, and the place keeps getting fuller every day.

Others think that no one is there, because it doesn't exist and that the lake of fire is the 'hell' spoken of in the Bible, and that will take place after the judgement after the 2nd coming.

And yet others think that there is both, that there are people in hell now, and that when Jesus comes back He is going to let them out to judge them and then cast them into the lake of fire.

Which is right? because all the people I have spoken to have scripture to back it up.

Take it easy on me on that one.

I tried really hard not to make any factual misrepresentations in that one.

I am not a big bad Seminary student like you, I am just a mom and a wife.



[ January 17, 2003, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: 3AngelsMom ]

 

I kinda thought that is what we were doing here.....

You said Jesus explained all His parables but didn't explain this one....

Could you please show scripture for the explination of each parable?

God Bless.

 

I know this isn't directed at me, but in some ways I agree with Me2, so I would like to respond.

How do YOU know that you are right and we are wrong? WHAT IF, You were the one misleading people and it was YOU who will stand before God with their blood on YOUR hands?

We just don't know yet do we?

Be careful how you throw the Word around at people. It is not ammuntion.

Speak the truth in Love.

None of us have died, so none of us know for sure what happens after death. One parable/tale, cannot dismiss the 50+ verses I have found that speak of death as a sleep. ONE parable only mentined by one of the Gospels, cannot lead me to believe all the doctrines of purgatory and paradise and the pre-Crucifixion saints going there until Jesus died.

It just doesn't add up.

Telling someone there is not a place of eternal torment does not take away from the Truth of the Gospel. It isn't one of those 'elemental' truths that MUST be believed in order to receive the Gift of Salvation.

God Bless

 

Neal,

To clarify, there is a punishment for the wicked.

The Truth of the Gospel is not 'seek me or get hell'.

Otherwise Jesus would be using scare tactics to get people to love Him. That is not the nature of God.

The Salvation of Jesus Christ is to be saved from DEATH.

There IS a punishment for the wicked.

I do not serve God out of fear of that punishment, but out of Love for Him.

God Bless