Christ didn't use fermented wine?

Gwyneth, thank you. This is about the same as the show History of Wine showed on the History Channel.

The ripe fruit has a `bloom` on it like a greyish powder ( this is natural yeast ) the juice contains natural sugars........ yeast+ sugar + alcohol.

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Alcohol is not the sin. The sin of gluttony is and that applies to food and drink.

Using Proverbs to state that wine is forbidden by God is like using Proverbs 23:13-14 (Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.) to justify child abuse.

Here's my first shot at a post.

To me the clincher, as to whether alcohol is permitted or not, is that it is clean/pure, as shown by the numerous places in the Pentateuch where God commands wine to be offered to Him, to quote just one example:

Leviticus 23:13 "And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin."

Only that which was pure, clean and without blemish could be offered to God, therefore it follows that wine is clean and pure.

The Bible also records that the Apostle Paul told Timothy to "use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities." (1 Timothy 5:23) For obvious reasons the emphasis I would add here is "a 'little' wine".

I'm going to skirt around the issue of whether Christ Himself drank wine or not, but, whether He did or not, there is no reason why He should not have done so, since wine is not a banned substance, but is actually clean and pure and was acceptable to God as a drink offering, as per Lev. 23:13 already quoted.

Welcome to the BBoard, PlainSense.
Your first post was plain and to the point.

I hope to hear more from you on the board.

Rob

Originally posted by tragic_pizza:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BobRyan:
Christ did not violate His OWN Word! In Mark 7 we see Him condemn those who reject His Word. He claims in the Gospels to fulfill and abide by His Word.

Prov 23:31


31Do not look on the wine when it is red,
When it sparkles in the cup,
When it swirls around smoothly;
32 At the last it bites like a serpent,
And stings like a viper.

Would not drink intoxicants. Would not "look" with intent to drink intoxicants. Indeed - they are toxic.

In Christ,

Bob

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Where do you get your information that wine is toxic?

Edit to comment: In looking at the verse you cite, I find that it's part of a larger passage which at least appears to speak not of drinking per se, but specifically of drunkenness. I hesitate to mention it, because (once again) it serves none of us if I persuade someone to go against their core values. rather, I heap condemnation on myself.

Please forgive the use of the NIV.

29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow?
Who has strife? Who has complaints?
Who has needless bruises? Who has bloodshot eyes?

30 Those who linger over wine,
who go to sample bowls of mixed wine.

31 Do not gaze at wine when it is red,
when it sparkles in the cup,
when it goes down smoothly!

32 In the end it bites like a snake
and poisons like a viper.

33 Your eyes will see strange sights
and your mind imagine confusing things.

34 You will be like one sleeping on the high seas,
lying on top of the rigging.

35 "They hit me," you will say, "but I'm not hurt!
They beat me, but I don't feel it!
When will I wake up
so I can find another drink?" </font>[/QUOTE]Well answered, Tragic Pizza!
My dad used to be against the use of wine like Bob does. Nevertheless I shall always have the greatest respect for him, and dearly lives his memory! But making it a doctrine whereby a man's Christianity is measured? Never!
The thing turned around naturally will also apply - bringing under suspicion one's faith because he may accept the use of fermented beveriges.
One point where this issue involves Christian Doctrine though, is re the Lord's Supper. To contend it must be unfermented wine for me just doesn't make sense since the wine used was the stuff NOT drunk during the Days of Unleaventd Bread - the Lord's Supper having been eaten on the Day of the Slaughter of the Passover, Nisan 14, which was the last day of eating leavened food, while on the same day leaven used to be ceremoniously "removed from all the land", so that on Nisan 15 only, the first unleavened food - and unfermented wine - began to be used.

Maybe this requires another thread, 'Was the Last Supper the Passover Meal, or not?

Well, there is a school of thought which contends that the meal where Jesus instituted the Eucharist wasn't on Thursday. Might make for an interesting discussion.

In any case, I am again not here to try and have a better answer than the other guy. I'm really trying to gain insight.