Order of Events in Revelation

Me4Him,

You seem to think Satan is more powerful than
God and that Satan will prevail against us:

Quote:
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"Giving Satan and his SON, the AC, power over the whole earth, all kindren, tongues and nation, killing to the point that no flesh would be saved except Jesus shorten those days,

is not putting out the light of the gospel???
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These words are contrary to what Jesus predicted,
i.e., that some will die until the Lastday to
prove they are worthy of Him!! Mark 8:38; 9:1.

Furthermore, He promised to be "with us until the End of the Age", i.e., until He comes in
glory and brings His rewards with Him for every one of us. Matt.16:27; Rev.22:12.

Jesus reminds us to "watch and be blessed" in expecting His coming "as a thief" when the armies have been "gathered to Armageddon". Rev.16:15-16.

Or will you be consistent by claiming those who are to "watch and to expect Him" refer only to Israelis?

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Me4Him,

The reason I am totally frustrated with your
remarks is that you do not directly answer a
question:

Quotes
I wrote:
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Jesus reminds us to "watch and be blessed" in expecting His coming "as a thief" when the armies have been "gathered to Armageddon". Rev.16:15-16.

Or will you be consistent by claiming those who are to "watch and to expect Him" refer only to Israelis?
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Again, Are Church Believers to "watch" OR will
you be consistent by claiming those who are to "watch and to expect Him" refer only to Israelis who are killed during the tribulation?

Mel Miller www.lastday.net
----------------------------------------------
Your Answer:

Am 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

When Jesus (his ghost, Holy) can't be with us, we'll be with him, it's called the rapture.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Ed Edwards,

What evidence do you have that there will be
"no christians" during the tribulation?

Quote:
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"During the Tribulation Period, there being no Christians (Church Age elect saints) about, the Israeli will be watching for Jesus to come back".
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Jesus promised to be with Believers until the End of the Age. Have you argued anywhere that this "Age" ends before Christ comes in glory
WITH all the Saints...including Trib-Saints?

The "great multitude coming out of the great tribulation from all nations and tongues" can't
possibly refer only to "Israelis who survive until Jesus comes back". There will be Saints
among the Gentiles during the tribulation!!!!

Brother, you stand on fruitless "assumptions".

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Mel Miller wrote: //What evidence do you have that there will be "no christians" during the tribulation?//

Ed Edwards suggests God's time is expensive:

"It would cost me about $380 worth of God's
time to write an essay showing the scritures
that lead to this event".
_______________________________________________

I don't know why you think of measuring God's time in dollars but thanks for not asking me
to pay up front for the "bunches" of revelation to which you must enjoy subjecting others.

In this case, though, I'll just accept your
word as the final expression of God's plan
to save none but Israelis during the great tribulation.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Those Interested in Order of Events:

Ed Edwards concludes that there will be no Gentile Christians during the G.T:
Quote:
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"There will be elect saints on earth during
the Tribulation period -- but they are
Israeli elect saints".
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In line with this argument has been his view that Matt.24:31 describes a Pre-Trib rapture.
No one I have known in 72 years of Biblical
research has held this view. EE is a maverick
who claims to possess truth revealed to him alone by the Holy Spirit.

The ususal Pre-Trib teaching states there is
"no translation of Saints" from the earth to
meet Jesus at the Second Coming so that Matt. 24:31 describes a "re-gathering of Israel from the extremities of the earth" to their homeland.

But what about the "order of events" which
includes "gathering of the elect (vertically) from the extremity (uttermost part) of the earth to the extremity (uttermost part) of heaven in (one of) the days after the great tribulation"? Mark 13:24-27.

Here is where Pre-Tribbers omit what happens
moments before the "angels gather the elect
(globally and horizontally parallel to earth) out of the 4 winds from all the extremities of the heavens". Matt.24:31.

EE has omitted that Jesus will "gather the
elect upon the 4 winds" (episunxei; 3rd person singular) from earth to heaven "immediately after the great tribulaton" at the same time He "sends the angels (apostelei; again, 3rd person singular) to gather these elect from
(around the globe) and therefore "from all extremities of the heavenS". Matt.24:29-31.

The decisive point is that Mark requires this
gathering as part of "THE SIGN when all these
things shall be fulfilled". Mark 13:4. Mark
requires this ORDER of events by using the
word "then" twice in quick succession to link
the "gathering of the elect" from earth to
heaven with the moment men see THE SIGNS in the heavens on the Day of Wrath and AFTER "they see Son of Man coming in the clouds with great glory and power". Mark 13:24-26.

This is absolute proof that EE's repeated claim
to have "won the argument", because he alone possesses the truth given by the Holy Spirit,
is utterly false.

This also disproves EE's doctrine that only
at the Pre-Trib Rapture will Gentile saints be
"translated" from the earth to meet Jesus in
the air. He is unfaithful to Scripture that there will only be "Israeli saints during the tribulation".

I couldn't honestly "accept his word" that Jesus
raises up "all believers ONLY on a Pre-Trib last day of the age". To do so would make me guilty of denying the word of the Lord that He "came to do the Father's will", i.e., to raise up both O.T and N.T and Tribulation Gentile and Jewish believers from every nation and tongue and tribe "on the last day of the age".

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

EE claims the Holy Spirit has revealed to him the teaching that Jesus will NOT "gather the elect from the extremity of earth to the extremity of heaven AFTER great tribulation".
Instead, he insists it will happen before the tribulation and cannot refer to Trib-Saints.

According to EE's "private" interpretation these elect of Matt.24:31 DO NOT even include Gentile saints who are saved during great tribulation as "they are raptured prior to the tribulation".

His false teaching requires that Jesus was
talking about a Pre-Trib Rapture in Matt.24:31 that occurs prior to the great tribulation INSTEAD of including Christians who will be gathered at the End of the Tribulation from all nations and peoples and tongues.

Baptists believe Scripture is of no "private"
interpretation. Baptists believe the Holy Spirit reveals the truth of Scripture to believers in
general and that "not a single Scripture ever contradicts another Scripture".

What I wrote in the thread on Matt.24 about this matter to EE is very, very important since he claims the Holy Spirit has revealed to him what has not been revealed in general to other Christians. Not only does he deny that Gentiles will be Christians during the great tribulation; but he left my personal rebuke unchallenged in these accompanying words:

Quote:
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tee hee. That proves that I didn't get it from ANY HUMAN. I got it straight from the Holy Spirit".
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What we get from the Holy Spirit agrees with
what most other Christians believe. EE's unholy claim is a serious distortion of Baptist teaching which disallows the right of any one person to his own "private" conflicting view ...
especially when his interpretation contradicts the direct word of Jesus that He will gather the elect from the extremity of earth to heaven "in
the days AFTER great tribulation" and that He
will "raise up all believers on the last day"!

I wrote that his teaching "contradicts the word of the Lord Himself and that I have never once heard or read of a scholar who agrees with him that Matt.24:31 refers to a so-called Pre-Trib Rapture 7 years before Christ appears "UPON the clouds in power and great glory".

Instead of pointing to another's confirmation, EE continued to maintain there will not be any Gentile Christians during the great tribulation; but only Israeli Christians.

His claim puts the Holy Spirit in conflict with God's word that great multitudes will "come out of the great tribulation from ALL nations, peoples, kindreds and tongues and are washed in the blood of the Lamb". Rev.7:9-14.

I cannot in good conscience let his "privacy" theory distort true Baptist doctrine.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Me4Him

Quote:
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“Re 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, (of witnesses) and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, (Jesus) having on his
head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle”.
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Are you saying the Son of Man “sits upon the witnesses” (cloud of witnesses) while He waits for the 3 angels from heaven?

This text fulfills Matt.13:30,38-41 showing the Son of Man “reaps the sons of Satan FIRST” before He “gathers the Elect” from the earth and “sends the Angels” to all extremities of
the heavenS to “gather them out of the four winds”. He does not “rapture” the Saints in Rev.14. The rapture occurs at the 7th Trumpet!

This text in Rev.14 occurs AFTER the 42-month rule of the Beast recorded in chapter 13.
The “witnesses” attending Him as He “waits upon the white cloud” for the 3 angels from heaven are the 144,000 Jews He has just rescued from Mt. Zion because “THEY FOLLOW THE LAMB WHEREVER HE GOES” after being sealed with the name of
the Lamb. Rev.14:1-5 (NASB has name of Father
and the Lamb; KJV omits name of the Lamb).

These Firstfruit unto God and the Lamb must be taken to heaven on the last day to sing the Song of the Lamb since they alone can learn the song and since “all believers must be raised up on that day”. John 6:38-40. Not all believers are gathered above at the same instant; but all believers come "with Him" at once. I Th.3:13.

The 144,000 are taken to heaven in glorified bodies because they are “Firstfruits unto God and the Lamb”. They are the Bridegroom’s Gift
to the Father as they “present the Son of Man
to the Ancient of Days”. Then, Daniel states that the Son of Man takes the “kingdoms of
this world” and gives the Kingdom to the
Saints who accompany Him to earth to destroy
the Beast. Dan.7:13-14, 22-27.

The same message is given by the 7th Trumpet in Rev.11:15-18 where the Coronation of Christ occurs and then heaven rejoices moments before He descends to “gather the Elect” and “takes the kingdoms of earth” for Himself and the Saints.

The “appointed time for *Resurrection* (judging the dead) and *Rewards* to the prophets and Saints and to all who fear God” is the same for
*Retribution* upon those who are “destroying the earth and upon the Beast”. Rev.11:18.

Daniel confirms that the Saints come with Christ after the 144,000 “present the Son of Man to the Ancient of Days” and holds Court as seen in the 7th Seal. Dan.7:13-14, 22-27.

Me4Him, please realize the Son of Man symbolically “reaps the wicked” literally
gathered to Armageddon moments before He descends to “destroy earth’s destroyers” and begin to understand the “Order of Events” on the last day.

These Lastday events are described in 100 verses of the Book of Revelation!!

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Friends,

The order of events in Revelation requires that
the execution of God’s wrath does not begin until the 7th Trumpet which sounds on the last day ... up to 3½ days after “chronos-time is no longer” subject to a countdown at the end of this Age of Grace. Rev.10:6-7. Only Rev.11:18
states the "appointed time has come for God's wrath, for the *Resurrection* to judge the dead
and for the *Rapture* to reward all believers"!
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Ituttut wonders: "What do you call what happened before this 7th Trumpet? This `before' is included in His wrath. What happens with the 7th Trumpet is not for us to know".
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For anyone to claim God's wrath begins "before" the 7th Trumpet completely ignores that "God's wrath is not announced from heaven as having come" until the 7th Trumpet sounds. Rev.11:15-18.

Ituttut pleads ignorance of what happens at the 7th Trumpet. But "it is the APPOINTED TIME (the only appointed time in the Book of Revelation) for the *Resurrection* and for the *Rapture* and for *destroying the destroyers of earth". That cannot occur until Jesus comes in great power and glory "bringing the Saints and His rewards WITH Him". Matt.16:27; Rev.22:12; I Thess.3:13.

The time for God's wrath occurs on the very same day Christ comes from heaven WITH "all the saints". Rev.l7:14; Rev.11:18. He comes with the souls of the dead in Christ first. I Th.4:13-14.

And at the same time He comes FOR all the Saints who "endure to the end" ... after the great
tribulation ... until the last day and the last
Trump sounds. It sounds the 2nd and 3rd times as Christ comes WITH the saints from heaven at the 2nd sound and then sends the angels at the 3rd sound FOR all the saints whom He first gathers from the earth! Rev.2:25-26; I Thess.3:13; I Thess.4:16-17; Mark 13:24,27; Matt.24:31 !!!!

Between the moment Jesus "gathers the elect
from earth to heaven on the last day", and the
moment the angels complete their "gathering out
of the 4 winds from all extremities of the
heavenS, the tribes on earth will mourn and
they will "beg to escape God's wrath knowing
their redemption and kingdom are near". Matt.
24:30; Luke 21:28,31,34-36.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Friends,

When does God's wrath begin?

Those who claim it is the "tribulation period" of 7 years (or even 3 1/2) have no scriptural justifiation for beginning God's wrath prior to the 7th Trumpet where, for the only "appointed (kairos) time" in Revelation, "God's wrath has come". Rev.11:18.

The 7th Trumpet is also the "appointed time"
for the Resurrection to "judge the dead in
Christ and reward the prophets and saints,
and all who fear God, both small and great".

The Plagues must first "complete (exhaust)
God's anger" before it mixes "full strength
in His Cup of Wrath". Rev.15:1; Rev.14:10.

"NO one can enter the Temple in heaven until
the 7 Plagues complete God's anger (patience)
since the Latin word "longsuffering" is the
translation of the Greek word "long-anger"!!
Rev.15:8.

That means the armies will be gathered to
Armageddon in Plague #6 before the 7th Trumpet sounds that "God's wrath has come"!!

Please think about it.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net