Order of Events in Revelation

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
I don't know Mr Origen, but he appears to be a smart man, at least he seems to recognize the "words on paper" have a far deeper meaning than just the plain words.

I wouldn't voluntarily side with Origen so quickly if I were you. Here is the list of anathemas of Origen. It is a series of proclamations against Origen's symbolic (allegorical) interpretation of the Bible.

http://www.comparativereligion.com/anathemas.html

Included are:

Origen's belief that all souls pre-exist. Origen's interpretation that the sun, moon, and stars are intelligent pre-existing beings. Origen's belief that there is a twofold race of demons, one of which includes the souls of men. And so on...

 

[EdSutton]

npetreley and Ed Sutton,

Thank you both. Glad you see thru the flimflam.

Why thank you. Although, I was not so much 'seeing through the flimflam', as finding the comment about Origen humerous, not even being sure who was being talked about in the post. I then saw the protagonists in the debate, after reading the comment. I do admit to seeing through a lot of flimflam, especially now that I am a member of the Baptist Board. And there seems to be enough to go around, from all sides, to keep me chuckling.

Ed

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
Me4Him,

So you claim that "words on paper have a far
deeper meaning that just plain words".

What sense does that statement convey in the
relationship of physical to spiritual events?

I repeat:

"Your view of "putting out the light of the sun
(SON)" is radical and makes no sense at all.
The power of the gospel and of Christ through
His word will never be put out by Satan.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

Giving Satan and his SON, the AC, power over the whole earth, all kindren, tongues and nation, killing to the point that no flesh would be saved except Jesus shorten those days,

is not putting out the light of the gospel???

You've got a lot to learn about what is meant by "God's Indignation".

Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him,

You seem to think Satan is more powerful than
God and that Satan will prevail against us:

Quote:
_______________________________________________
"Giving Satan and his SON, the AC, power over the whole earth, all kindren, tongues and nation, killing to the point that no flesh would be saved except Jesus shorten those days,

is not putting out the light of the gospel???
_______________________________________________

These words are contrary to what Jesus predicted,
i.e., that some will die until the Lastday to
prove they are worthy of Him!! Mark 8:38; 9:1.

Furthermore, He promised to be "with us until the End of the Age", i.e., until He comes in
glory and brings His rewards with Him for every one of us. Matt.16:27; Rev.22:12.

Jesus reminds us to "watch and be blessed" in expecting His coming "as a thief" when the armies have been "gathered to Armageddon". Rev.16:15-16.

Or will you be consistent by claiming those who are to "watch and to expect Him" refer only to Israelis?

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Ed Edwards]

npetreley: //Origen's belief that all souls pre-exist. Origen's interpretation
that the sun, moon, and stars are intelligent pre-existing
beings. Origen's belief that there is a twofold race
of demons, one of which includes the souls of men. And so on... //

Cut to the chase, that is just the miss-interpertation of
the anti-Origen propagandists. The reason that
most people WHO ACTUALLY KNOW ORIGEN yet don't like him is because
Origen literally believed this scripture by his works:

Matthew 5:29 (KJV1769 Edition):
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out,
and cast it from thee:
for it is profitable for thee that one
of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole
body should be cast into hell.

Origen was a mentor of new Christians in the First Baptist
Church of Alexandria, Egypt. At that time new Chrisitans
were mentored/taught/tutored for two years before being baptized.
Origen had his male members surgically removed so that
sexual desires wouldn't deter him from serving God. For beleiving the
Written Word of God, both Origen and the church of Alexandria
are damned by Jack Chick, infamous Fundamentalist COMIC BOOK AUTHOR,
PRINTER, and SALESPERSON. Sorry to let you down, folks who
get their doctrine/dogma/propaganda from COMIC BOOKS

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
Me4Him,

You seem to think Satan is more powerful than
God and that Satan will prevail against us:

Quote:
_______________________________________________
"Giving Satan and his SON, the AC, power over the whole earth, all kindren, tongues and nation, killing to the point that no flesh would be saved except Jesus shorten those days,

is not putting out the light of the gospel???
_______________________________________________

These words are contrary to what Jesus predicted,
i.e., that some will die until the Lastday to
prove they are worthy of Him!! Mark 8:38; 9:1.

Furthermore, He promised to be "with us until the End of the Age", i.e., until He comes in
glory and brings His rewards with Him for every one of us. Matt.16:27; Rev.22:12.

Jesus reminds us to "watch and be blessed" in expecting His coming "as a thief" when the armies have been "gathered to Armageddon". Rev.16:15-16.

Or will you be consistent by claiming those who are to "watch and to expect Him" refer only to Israelis?

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

Am 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

When Jesus (his ghost, Holy) can't be with us, we'll be with him, it's called the rapture.

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him,

The reason I am totally frustrated with your
remarks is that you do not directly answer a
question:

Quotes
I wrote:
_______________________________________________
Jesus reminds us to "watch and be blessed" in expecting His coming "as a thief" when the armies have been "gathered to Armageddon". Rev.16:15-16.

Or will you be consistent by claiming those who are to "watch and to expect Him" refer only to Israelis?
_______________________________________________

Again, Are Church Believers to "watch" OR will
you be consistent by claiming those who are to "watch and to expect Him" refer only to Israelis who are killed during the tribulation?

Mel Miller www.lastday.net
----------------------------------------------
Your Answer:

Am 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

When Jesus (his ghost, Holy) can't be with us, we'll be with him, it's called the rapture.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Ed Edwards]

Mel Miller: //Again, Are Church Believers to "watch" OR will
you be consistent by claiming those who are to
"watch and to expect Him" refer only to Israelis who
are killed during the tribulation? //

Me4Him: //Am 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD,
that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine
of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

//When Jesus (his ghost, Holy) can't be with us,
we'll be with him, it's called the rapture.//

The Time of the Gentile, Church age folk need to watch
until the pretriublation rapture. After the pretribulation
rapture the church won't need to watch, their faith will become
sight.

During the Tribulation Period, there being no Christians
(Church Age elect saints) about, the Israeli will be
watching for Jesus to come back.
This included both the martyred Israeli and the Israeli
who survive until Jesus comes back.

 

[Mel Miller]

Ed Edwards,

What evidence do you have that there will be
"no christians" during the tribulation?

Quote:
_______________________________________________
"During the Tribulation Period, there being no Christians (Church Age elect saints) about, the Israeli will be watching for Jesus to come back".
_______________________________________________

Jesus promised to be with Believers until the End of the Age. Have you argued anywhere that this "Age" ends before Christ comes in glory
WITH all the Saints...including Trib-Saints?

The "great multitude coming out of the great tribulation from all nations and tongues" can't
possibly refer only to "Israelis who survive until Jesus comes back". There will be Saints
among the Gentiles during the tribulation!!!!

Brother, you stand on fruitless "assumptions".

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Ed Edwards]

Mel Miller: //What evidence do you have that there will be
"no christians" during the tribulation?//

It would cost me about $380 worth of God's time
to write an essay showing the scritures that
lead to this event. First you would have
to believe all the things i've said heretofor.
You do not believe all the easy things i've said
heretorfor. You would not believe the
hard things i'd say -- it is a waste of time
to write them down.

There will be elect saints on earth during
the Tribulation period -- but they are
Israeli elect saints.

Rev 12:6 (KJV1611):
And the woman fled into the wildernesse, where
shee hath a place prepared of God, that they
should feed her there a thousand,
two hundred, and threescore dayes.

As can be seen, the Israeli elect saints are
protected by God from the ravages of the
Antichrist and his minions during the
last half (3½-years).
The Christian, born again, redeemed
elect saints are protected by God from
the ravages of the Antichrist and
his minions by being taken OUT OF THE
TRIBULATION

Rev 7:14 (KJV1611 Edition):
And I said vnto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and haue washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lambe.

Again, I "came out" of the carnage in Vietnam
where 50,000 US personnel died by NEVER BEING
IN VIETNAM.


Me; Miller //Jesus promised to be with Believers until the End of the Age. Have you argued anywhere that this "Age" ends before Christ comes in glory
WITH all the Saints...including Trib-Saints?//

Trib-Saints are Jewish Israeli for the most
part who are not in Israel when the Antichrist
starts killing stray Jews. As above, most
Israeli will be protected in the wilderness.

Rev 20:4 (KJV1611 Edition):
And I saw thrones, and they sate vpon them, and iudgement was giuen vnto them: & I saw the soules of them that were beheaded for the witnesse of Iesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had receiued his marke vpon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they liued and reigned with Christ a thousand yeeres.

These head loosers are mostly Jews.
There might be some gentiles among them.
But I would never BET MY ETERNAL SOUL that
if I don't accept Jesus NOW that i'd be
one who would by martyred.

BTW, the best most post-trib rapturists
can hope for is a glorious martyrdom
with much suffering for Jesus.
Meanwhile, us pretribulation rapturists
will be in heaven celebrating the
wedding Supper of the Lamb.

 

[Mel Miller]

Mel Miller wrote: //What evidence do you have that there will be "no christians" during the tribulation?//

Ed Edwards suggests God's time is expensive:

"It would cost me about $380 worth of God's
time to write an essay showing the scritures
that lead to this event".
_______________________________________________

I don't know why you think of measuring God's time in dollars but thanks for not asking me
to pay up front for the "bunches" of revelation to which you must enjoy subjecting others.

In this case, though, I'll just accept your
word as the final expression of God's plan
to save none but Israelis during the great tribulation.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Mel Miller]

Those Interested in Order of Events:

Ed Edwards concludes that there will be no Gentile Christians during the G.T:
Quote:
______________________________________________
"There will be elect saints on earth during
the Tribulation period -- but they are
Israeli elect saints".
______________________________________________

In line with this argument has been his view that Matt.24:31 describes a Pre-Trib rapture.
No one I have known in 72 years of Biblical
research has held this view. EE is a maverick
who claims to possess truth revealed to him alone by the Holy Spirit.

The ususal Pre-Trib teaching states there is
"no translation of Saints" from the earth to
meet Jesus at the Second Coming so that Matt. 24:31 describes a "re-gathering of Israel from the extremities of the earth" to their homeland.

But what about the "order of events" which
includes "gathering of the elect (vertically) from the extremity (uttermost part) of the earth to the extremity (uttermost part) of heaven in (one of) the days after the great tribulation"? Mark 13:24-27.

Here is where Pre-Tribbers omit what happens
moments before the "angels gather the elect
(globally and horizontally parallel to earth) out of the 4 winds from all the extremities of the heavens". Matt.24:31.

EE has omitted that Jesus will "gather the
elect upon the 4 winds" (episunxei; 3rd person singular) from earth to heaven "immediately after the great tribulaton" at the same time He "sends the angels (apostelei; again, 3rd person singular) to gather these elect from
(around the globe) and therefore "from all extremities of the heavenS". Matt.24:29-31.

The decisive point is that Mark requires this
gathering as part of "THE SIGN when all these
things shall be fulfilled". Mark 13:4. Mark
requires this ORDER of events by using the
word "then" twice in quick succession to link
the "gathering of the elect" from earth to
heaven with the moment men see THE SIGNS in the heavens on the Day of Wrath and AFTER "they see Son of Man coming in the clouds with great glory and power". Mark 13:24-26.

This is absolute proof that EE's repeated claim
to have "won the argument", because he alone possesses the truth given by the Holy Spirit,
is utterly false.

This also disproves EE's doctrine that only
at the Pre-Trib Rapture will Gentile saints be
"translated" from the earth to meet Jesus in
the air. He is unfaithful to Scripture that there will only be "Israeli saints during the tribulation".

I couldn't honestly "accept his word" that Jesus
raises up "all believers ONLY on a Pre-Trib last day of the age". To do so would make me guilty of denying the word of the Lord that He "came to do the Father's will", i.e., to raise up both O.T and N.T and Tribulation Gentile and Jewish believers from every nation and tongue and tribe "on the last day of the age".

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Ed Edwards]

Mel Miller: //EE is a maverick
who claims to possess truth revealed to him alone by the Holy Spirit. //

Your statement is false.
I said I studied the Bible, the same 'truth' is available
through the Holy Spirit to anyone upon whom the
Holy Spirit cares to share the same truth.
Come on, I'm a Bapitst, Baptists believe each individual is to
get the truth from the Holy Bible and that the Holy Spirit
guides each one. Please don't damn me for doing what Baptists
teach.

 

[Mel Miller]

EE claims the Holy Spirit has revealed to him the teaching that Jesus will NOT "gather the elect from the extremity of earth to the extremity of heaven AFTER great tribulation".
Instead, he insists it will happen before the tribulation and cannot refer to Trib-Saints.

According to EE's "private" interpretation these elect of Matt.24:31 DO NOT even include Gentile saints who are saved during great tribulation as "they are raptured prior to the tribulation".

His false teaching requires that Jesus was
talking about a Pre-Trib Rapture in Matt.24:31 that occurs prior to the great tribulation INSTEAD of including Christians who will be gathered at the End of the Tribulation from all nations and peoples and tongues.

Baptists believe Scripture is of no "private"
interpretation. Baptists believe the Holy Spirit reveals the truth of Scripture to believers in
general and that "not a single Scripture ever contradicts another Scripture".

What I wrote in the thread on Matt.24 about this matter to EE is very, very important since he claims the Holy Spirit has revealed to him what has not been revealed in general to other Christians. Not only does he deny that Gentiles will be Christians during the great tribulation; but he left my personal rebuke unchallenged in these accompanying words:

Quote:
______________________________________________
tee hee. That proves that I didn't get it from ANY HUMAN. I got it straight from the Holy Spirit".
_______________________________________________

What we get from the Holy Spirit agrees with
what most other Christians believe. EE's unholy claim is a serious distortion of Baptist teaching which disallows the right of any one person to his own "private" conflicting view ...
especially when his interpretation contradicts the direct word of Jesus that He will gather the elect from the extremity of earth to heaven "in
the days AFTER great tribulation" and that He
will "raise up all believers on the last day"!

I wrote that his teaching "contradicts the word of the Lord Himself and that I have never once heard or read of a scholar who agrees with him that Matt.24:31 refers to a so-called Pre-Trib Rapture 7 years before Christ appears "UPON the clouds in power and great glory".

Instead of pointing to another's confirmation, EE continued to maintain there will not be any Gentile Christians during the great tribulation; but only Israeli Christians.

His claim puts the Holy Spirit in conflict with God's word that great multitudes will "come out of the great tribulation from ALL nations, peoples, kindreds and tongues and are washed in the blood of the Lamb". Rev.7:9-14.

I cannot in good conscience let his "privacy" theory distort true Baptist doctrine.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[dcorbett]

Pastor is preaching an expository series on Revelations...compare these verses to witness to the fact that NO CHRISTIANS will be here after the Rapture takes place.

1 Thessalonians, chapter 4
13: But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18: Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1Corinthians , chapter15
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Revelation, chapter 4
1: After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2: And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

In accordance with the scripture verifying itself over and over..
John is talking about the Rapture here, do you see it? If not, pray about it. Everything that happens after this verse does NOT happen to Christians - we will be with the Lord in Heaven.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Pretribs misinterpreting Rev. 4:1 mentioned of rapture of the Church. The angel in the heaven of Rev. 4:1 was not talk to the whole church, he was speak toward John alone. Angel asked John to come up here. Word, 'hither' find 4 times in the book of Revelation. 3 of 4 times, which were speak toward John- Rev. 4:1; 17:1; & 21:9. Hither never be relate with rapture or caught up either. Hither comes telling to a person, "Please come here".

I have an illustration for 'hither up'.

Chris and his friends playing softball outside in his home yard about 25 yards away from his house. The boy pitching the ball toward Chris, as hitter. Then, Chris swinging with the bat hit the ball fly up in the sky. The ball hits his parent's bedroom window on the second floor of the house. Before, the ball hits window, his father is reading newspaper in the living room on the first floor of the house. Then, suddenly, father hears noisy above. Then, he walks upstair, and find out what's going on. Father spots broken window in his bedroom, and notice ball on the floor. Father walks toward broken window, and he notices his son and his friends outside. He says to Chris, "Please HITHER UP right now!" So, Chris immediately run into the house, go upstairs, to meet father in his bedroom. Then, father rebukes his son about the window.

Rev. 4:1-2 have do nothing with the second coming or resurrection. Rev. 4:1-2 say nothing about the second coming or resurrection either. Rev. 4:1-2 is talking about John was called for go up to the heaven to meet the angel, and to show him the future things in his vision.

Same with Rev. 17:1, the angel told John, please come here, and to show him the Harlot -Babylon of Revelation chapter 17 & 18. Rev. 17:1 have do nothing with second coming or resurrection.

Rev. 21:9- John was called by the angel, told him, to come here and show him of the city - New Jerusalem. Verse 9 have do nothing with second coming or resurrection.

You have to be reading Rev. 4:1-2 carefully.

Over 200 years ago, all Christians understood of Rev. 4:1-2 is talking about the angel told John, to come up here and to show him the future things. John's spirit was moved , that why it called, 'revelation'. Revelation is a supernatural communication between God and man by through the vision or dream.


You mentioned of 1 Thess. 4:13-17 about rapture.

I ask you of 1 Thess. 4:13-18:

Which Coming of the Lord is this one? His 2nd or 3rd?

You mentioned of 1 Cor. 15:51-54 mentioned about rapture.

I ask you of 1 Cor. 15:51-54:

Which Coming of the Lord is this one? His 2nd or 3rd?

Please ponder them.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Me4Him]

Re 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, (of witnesses) and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, (Jesus) having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. (Jesus/rapture)

Angel #2

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. (Trib period)

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.


Do you really believe John "fouled up" when he wrote the "sequence" he saw of the reaping by Jesus and the Angels???

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him

Quote:
_______________________________________________
“Re 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, (of witnesses) and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, (Jesus) having on his
head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle”.
_______________________________________________

Are you saying the Son of Man “sits upon the witnesses” (cloud of witnesses) while He waits for the 3 angels from heaven?

This text fulfills Matt.13:30,38-41 showing the Son of Man “reaps the sons of Satan FIRST” before He “gathers the Elect” from the earth and “sends the Angels” to all extremities of
the heavenS to “gather them out of the four winds”. He does not “rapture” the Saints in Rev.14. The rapture occurs at the 7th Trumpet!

This text in Rev.14 occurs AFTER the 42-month rule of the Beast recorded in chapter 13.
The “witnesses” attending Him as He “waits upon the white cloud” for the 3 angels from heaven are the 144,000 Jews He has just rescued from Mt. Zion because “THEY FOLLOW THE LAMB WHEREVER HE GOES” after being sealed with the name of
the Lamb. Rev.14:1-5 (NASB has name of Father
and the Lamb; KJV omits name of the Lamb).

These Firstfruit unto God and the Lamb must be taken to heaven on the last day to sing the Song of the Lamb since they alone can learn the song and since “all believers must be raised up on that day”. John 6:38-40. Not all believers are gathered above at the same instant; but all believers come "with Him" at once. I Th.3:13.

The 144,000 are taken to heaven in glorified bodies because they are “Firstfruits unto God and the Lamb”. They are the Bridegroom’s Gift
to the Father as they “present the Son of Man
to the Ancient of Days”. Then, Daniel states that the Son of Man takes the “kingdoms of
this world” and gives the Kingdom to the
Saints who accompany Him to earth to destroy
the Beast. Dan.7:13-14, 22-27.

The same message is given by the 7th Trumpet in Rev.11:15-18 where the Coronation of Christ occurs and then heaven rejoices moments before He descends to “gather the Elect” and “takes the kingdoms of earth” for Himself and the Saints.

The “appointed time for *Resurrection* (judging the dead) and *Rewards* to the prophets and Saints and to all who fear God” is the same for
*Retribution* upon those who are “destroying the earth and upon the Beast”. Rev.11:18.

Daniel confirms that the Saints come with Christ after the 144,000 “present the Son of Man to the Ancient of Days” and holds Court as seen in the 7th Seal. Dan.7:13-14, 22-27.

Me4Him, please realize the Son of Man symbolically “reaps the wicked” literally
gathered to Armageddon moments before He descends to “destroy earth’s destroyers” and begin to understand the “Order of Events” on the last day.

These Lastday events are described in 100 verses of the Book of Revelation!!

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Mel Miller]

Friends,

The order of events in Revelation requires that
the execution of God’s wrath does not begin until the 7th Trumpet which sounds on the last day ... up to 3½ days after “chronos-time is no longer” subject to a countdown at the end of this Age of Grace. Rev.10:6-7. Only Rev.11:18
states the "appointed time has come for God's wrath, for the *Resurrection* to judge the dead
and for the *Rapture* to reward all believers"!
________________________________________________
Ituttut wonders: "What do you call what happened before this 7th Trumpet? This `before' is included in His wrath. What happens with the 7th Trumpet is not for us to know".
________________________________________________

For anyone to claim God's wrath begins "before" the 7th Trumpet completely ignores that "God's wrath is not announced from heaven as having come" until the 7th Trumpet sounds. Rev.11:15-18.

Ituttut pleads ignorance of what happens at the 7th Trumpet. But "it is the APPOINTED TIME (the only appointed time in the Book of Revelation) for the *Resurrection* and for the *Rapture* and for *destroying the destroyers of earth". That cannot occur until Jesus comes in great power and glory "bringing the Saints and His rewards WITH Him". Matt.16:27; Rev.22:12; I Thess.3:13.

The time for God's wrath occurs on the very same day Christ comes from heaven WITH "all the saints". Rev.l7:14; Rev.11:18. He comes with the souls of the dead in Christ first. I Th.4:13-14.

And at the same time He comes FOR all the Saints who "endure to the end" ... after the great
tribulation ... until the last day and the last
Trump sounds. It sounds the 2nd and 3rd times as Christ comes WITH the saints from heaven at the 2nd sound and then sends the angels at the 3rd sound FOR all the saints whom He first gathers from the earth! Rev.2:25-26; I Thess.3:13; I Thess.4:16-17; Mark 13:24,27; Matt.24:31 !!!!

Between the moment Jesus "gathers the elect
from earth to heaven on the last day", and the
moment the angels complete their "gathering out
of the 4 winds from all extremities of the
heavenS, the tribes on earth will mourn and
they will "beg to escape God's wrath knowing
their redemption and kingdom are near". Matt.
24:30; Luke 21:28,31,34-36.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Mel Miller]

Friends,

When does God's wrath begin?

Those who claim it is the "tribulation period" of 7 years (or even 3 1/2) have no scriptural justifiation for beginning God's wrath prior to the 7th Trumpet where, for the only "appointed (kairos) time" in Revelation, "God's wrath has come". Rev.11:18.

The 7th Trumpet is also the "appointed time"
for the Resurrection to "judge the dead in
Christ and reward the prophets and saints,
and all who fear God, both small and great".

The Plagues must first "complete (exhaust)
God's anger" before it mixes "full strength
in His Cup of Wrath". Rev.15:1; Rev.14:10.

"NO one can enter the Temple in heaven until
the 7 Plagues complete God's anger (patience)
since the Latin word "longsuffering" is the
translation of the Greek word "long-anger"!!
Rev.15:8.

That means the armies will be gathered to
Armageddon in Plague #6 before the 7th Trumpet sounds that "God's wrath has come"!!

Please think about it.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net