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Order of Events in Revelation

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Mel Miller, Mar 28, 2006.

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  1. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller New Member

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    Me4Him,

    Quote:
    _______________________________________________
    "Allowing the AC to prevail over/kill believers is `chastisement', not wrath, these are easy to get mixed up".
    _______________________________________________

    As long as God allows the AC to kill Believers,
    His wrath will be delayed. God's wrath comes
    only when Jesus destroys the destroyers of earth
    at Armageddon after He appears with the Saints.

    As long as God allows the option of unbelievers
    to repent, as in the 6th Trumpet and 4th and 5th
    Plagues, HIS WRATH HAS NOT YET OCCURRED. It is
    easy to get mixed up by thinking the Plagues
    contain God's wrath. They "exhaust His anger"
    and are all fulfilled before the Martyrs enter
    the Temple as of Rev.15:5 and Rev.7:9 to 8:5.
    (The New Jerusalem Bible; Greek text. Rev.15:1).

    Ninety percent of Believers REJECT your view that
    the signs in the sun and moon are "symbols" of Christ, the Church and chastisement.

    Seal Six brings the 12-Hour Day of God's Wrath.
    Seal Seven produces the Verdict of God's Wrath.
    Trump 7 is the only time heaven announces "God's wrath has come". That too is the "appointed time
    for judging the dead (resurrection) and rewarding
    the Saints (at the rapture)". Rev.11:18.

    There is no mention of anger + wrath until the
    last Plague empties in the air. And prior to that none of those in heaven can enter the Temple to praise God and the Lamb or to witness the Tribunal of Seal 7 or hear the pronouncement that God's WRATH HAS COME UNTIL THE LAST PLAGUE
    EMPTIES IN THE AIR. Rev.15:8.

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
    #21 Mel Miller, Apr 13, 2006
  2. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    Thanks for the Compliment of my being in the 10% who are "correct". :D :D [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning,

    [​IMG]

    If you, or any of the 90%, care to check the chronology of scripture, you'll find Jesus was born/crucified, "in the evening" of the "Fourth day".

    Jesus confirmed this by waiting until the "Fourth day" before resurrecting Lazarus, tell Mary/Martha, the "Light of the world" has come". (Jesus/resurrection)

    Mt 4:16 The people which sat in (spiritual) darkness saw great light; (Jesus)

    The "SUN/MOON" going "Dark" during the trib, is the "physical manifestation of the "Spiritual light" being put out by the AC.

    Re 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; (trib saints being killed)

    Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.


    Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.


    And the people will again be in a "Literal Darkness" and see a "Great light" coming, the "Brightness of his coming".


    Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

    2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    You won't understand revelation unless you understand the "symbols", all those "Natural events" are manifestations of "Spiritual events",

    just as the Natural "SUN" created in the "Fourth day" was a manifestation of the "Spiritual "SON"..."created"...the "fourth day".
     
    #22 Me4Him, Apr 14, 2006
  3. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller New Member

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    Me4Him,

    Quotes:

    "Jesus was born/crucified, `in the evening" of the Fourth day'".

    "The SUN/MOON" going `Dark' during the trib, is the `physical manifestation of the Spiritual light' being put out by the AC".

    "All those `Natural events' are manifestations of `Spiritual events', just as the Natural `SUN' created in the `Fourth day' was a manifestation of the `Spiritual SON'...`created'...the `fourth day'".
    ________________________________________________

    Ten percent of Christians may agree that YOU are correct in stating the SUN (turning dark) represents the truth of Christ being darkened by the AC; but not even 1% will agree that Christ, the SON, was "created" on the fourth day.

    Mel Miller www.lastay.net
     
    #23 Mel Miller, Apr 16, 2006
  4. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller New Member

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    Me4Him,

    On second thought,

    I know you did not mean that Christ was created.
    But your English seems to compare the "manifestation of the Sun on the 4th day with the SON being crucified on the 4th Day".

    Is this your way of saying He died on Thursday?

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
    #24 Mel Miller, Apr 16, 2006
  5. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller New Member

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    Me4Him,

    Whoops!

    The 4th Day would be saying Christ died on
    Wednesday instead of Thursday.

    I note you are not participating in the
    discussion on "What Day did Christ die"?

    Mel
     
    #25 Mel Miller, Apr 16, 2006
  6. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    Jesus came into the world on the "Fourth day", Thurday, if you want to put it that way.

    I took a quick glance at the discussion on the day Jesus was crucified/resurrected, three days/nights, is very different than on the morning of the third day,

    Jesus was resurrected on "Sunday morning", the third day, but the first resurrection back on earth is "Saturday Morning", and Jesus stays for the MK, making the third day/night.


    Jesus will be "on the earth" (revealed) the 5th, 6th, 7th day, three days/nights, and "In the earth", two days, resurrected the third.

    You can't get three nights out of two days, so quite obviously something different is referred too.
     
    #26 Me4Him, Apr 16, 2006
  7. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller New Member

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    Me4Him,,

    The subject of this thread is the "Order of
    Events in the Book of Revelation".

    Nothing you have posted in response has anything
    to do with the ORDER of Events; nor have you
    said anything to refute my statement: "There will be no anger + wrath until after the 7th Plague empties in the air".

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
    #27 Mel Miller, Apr 16, 2006
  8. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    I haven't studied the sequences of events during the trib, except where they overlap with my other studies, which does include some on the trib.

    The trib is know as the "HOUR" in several verses, and during the first half it's peaceable, but the last half is known as the "GREAT" tribulations, this is when God really turns the AC loose to do his thing.

    And it that time when the "spiritual light" of the "Sun/moon" start going dark, but prior to last half, the "SUN" shine with the strenght of seven suns and the moon with the strenght of the sun, the seven spirit of God focusing on israel the moon.

    Isa 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

    Re 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

    If the trib is an hour and God is silence for half an hour, that suggest to me the last half when God turns the AC loose, the sun/moon going dark and the period of time the seven trumpets are sounded.

    I'm not going to be here during the trib, so what happens doesn't concern me, I'll be checking out that "mansion", eating at the "KING" table. :D :D [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #28 Me4Him, Apr 17, 2006
  9. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller New Member

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    Me4Him,

    Since joining this Forum I have been analyzing your approach to prophetic Scripture regarding
    the Day of the Lord.

    I find you are much like the "Archbishop of
    Dispensationalism", Dr. Henry (Harry) Ironside, who spiritualized the sun, moon and stars of
    Seal Six when I attended Moody Memorial Church
    in the early 40's as a student at MBI.

    Just like you, he did not see the Sun literally turning dark on the Day of God's wrath. It was
    a symbol of spiritual darkness rather than a sign of God's impending wrath.

    Your quotes:
    ______________________________________________
    "I haven't studied sequences of events during the trib, except where they overlap with my other studies, which include some on the trib.

    "The trib is know as the `HOUR' in several verses, and during the first half it's peaceable, but the last half is known as the `GREAT' tribulations, this is when God really turns the AC loose to do his thing.

    "And it is the time when the `spiritual light' of the `Sun/moon' start going dark, but prior to last half, the `SUN' shine with the strenght of seven suns ... focusing on israel the moon".
    _______________________________________________

    My view looks at the signs in the sun/moon as
    literal, physical warnings of God's impending
    wrath. I see that wrath occuring on a single
    12-Hour Day and the HOUR OF TRIAL taking place
    on that very same day when Jesus comes to
    "resurrect the dead in Christ, rapture the survivors from earth to heaven and sends the angels to gather both the dead and living Saints from all extremities of the heavenS" as Jesus promised.

    I take the words of Jesus and Revelation literally unless they are obviously figurative.

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
    #29 Mel Miller, Apr 17, 2006
  10. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    I posted this above.

    You won't understand revelation unless you understand the "symbols", all those "Natural events" are manifestations of "Spiritual events",

    just as the Natural "SUN" created in the "Fourth day" was a manifestation of the "Spiritual "SON"..."created"...the "fourth day".

    The spiritual is manifeasted here in the physical realm, the sun/moon "literally" go dark.
     
    #30 Me4Him, Apr 18, 2006
  11. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller New Member

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    Me4Him,

    Once again, you have the Sun/Moon representing
    persons and literal events at the same time.

    Quotes:
    _______________________________________________
    The "spiritual light" of the "Sun/moon" start going dark, but prior to last half, the "SUN" shine with the strenght of seven suns and the moon with the strenght of the sun, the seven spirit of God focusing on israel the moon".

    The Natural "SUN" created in the "Fourth day" was a manifestation of the
    "Spiritual "SON"..."created"...the "fourth day".

    The spiritual is manifeasted here in the physical realm, the sun/moon "literally" go dark.
    ----------------------------------------------

    It makes no sense to me that the sun turning dark is a literal, physical event and at the
    same time represents Christ and the moon
    represents Israel.

    Christ does not turn "dark" and His people
    did not become the color of "blood"!

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
    #31 Mel Miller, Apr 27, 2006
  12. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    Jesus said: "Let your light shine", that's the light of the spirit manifested here in our "physical bodies", Jesus said I am the light of the world, now you are the light of the world.

    Jesus represents the "SUN" (son) which lights the world, and like the MOON, the church reflects the light that comes from the "SON".

    The world, even the solor system, are all pattern according to the spiritual systems.

    During the first half, or there about, of the trib, God will be dealing with Israel through the two witnesses, all seven spirits of God will be focused on Israel.

    Re 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

    Isa 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon (Israel) shall be as the light of the sun,(Jesus)

    and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold,    (seven Spirits)

    as the light of seven days,

    in the day (trib period) that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

    About the middle of the trib, the "peace and safety" comes to an end when the AC enter the temple, from that point on, the AC attempt, to "put out" the "light" of the "Sun/Moon" (Jesus/Israel) by killing all those who hold the testimony of christ.

    this will be manifested by the "literal Sun/Moon" going "dark" and the Moon (Believers) turn into "Blood" is the slaughter of those saints.

    Until you understand that the physical events of Revelation are manifestations of "spiritual events", you won't understand Revelation, or even the bible for that matter.
     
    #32 Me4Him, Apr 27, 2006
  13. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    You should change your handle to Origen.

    "The Scriptures are of little use to those who understand them as they are written"
     
    #33 npetreley, Apr 27, 2006
  14. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller New Member

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    Me4Him,
    Quote:
    _______________________________________________
    About the middle of the trib, the "peace and safety" comes to an end when the AC enter the temple, from that point on, the AC attempt, to "put out" the "light" of the "Sun/Moon" (Jesus/Israel) by killing all those who hold
    the testimony of christ.
    _______________________________________________

    Your view of "putting out the light of the sun
    (SON)" is radical and makes no sense at all.
    The power of the gospel and of Christ through
    His word will never be put out by Satan.

    In fact, the Two Prophets will demonstrate
    God's Kingdom Power for 1260 days and no one
    will be able to kill them. Within 3 1/2 days
    of their deaths, Christ will come and destroy
    the power of the Beast and Satan as well.

    Your view of the mission of the saints turns
    into one of defeatism and a dismal prospect for
    any "victory as overcomers ... even unto death".

    You have the wrong message for encouraging or
    preparing the Saints for Endtime sufferings.

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
    #34 Mel Miller, Apr 27, 2006
  15. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, (AC) the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.

    Mr 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:


    Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

    I don't think they'll be preaching the light of the gospel on the corner when the AC comes to power, God said to flee/hid until his indignation is over.

    Joh 12:46 I am come a light into the world,
    Lu 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness

    2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
     
    #35 Me4Him, Apr 27, 2006
  16. Me4Him

    Me4Him New Member

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    You should change your handle to Origen.

    "The Scriptures are of little use to those who understand them as they are written"     </font>[/QUOTE]I don't know Mr Origen, but he appears to be a smart man, at least he seems to recognize the "words on paper" have a far deeper meaning than just the plain words.
     
    #36 Me4Him, Apr 27, 2006
  17. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller New Member

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    Me4Him,

    So you claim that "words on paper have a far
    deeper meaning that just plain words".

    What sense does that statement convey in the
    relationship of physical to spiritual events?

    I repeat:

    "Your view of "putting out the light of the sun
    (SON)" is radical and makes no sense at all.
    The power of the gospel and of Christ through
    His word will never be put out by Satan.

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
    #37 Mel Miller, Apr 29, 2006
  18. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller New Member

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    Me4Him,

    My view looks at the signs in the sun/moon as
    literal, physical warnings of God's impending
    wrath. I see that wrath occurring on a single
    12-Hour Day and the HOUR OF TRIAL taking place
    on that very same day when Jesus comes to
    "resurrect the dead in Christ, rapture the survivors from earth to heaven and sends the angels to gather both the dead and living Saints from all extremities of the heavenS" as Jesus promised.

    I take the words of Jesus and Revelation literally unless they are obviously figurative.

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
    #38 Mel Miller, Apr 29, 2006
  19. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    You should change your handle to Origen.

    "The Scriptures are of little use to those who understand them as they are written"     </font>[/QUOTE]:eek: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Ed
     
    #39 EdSutton, Apr 30, 2006
  20. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller New Member

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    npetreley and Ed Sutton,

    Thank you both. Glad you see thru the flimflam.

    Originally posted by npetreley:

    quote:
    -----------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by Me4Him:

    Until you understand that the physical events of Revelation are manifestations of "spiritual events", you won't understand Revelation, or even the bible for that matter.
    ------------------------------------------------

    You should change your handle to Origen.

    "The Scriptures are of little use to those who understand them as they are written"
    ------------------------------------------------

    Ed "Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha"
     
    #40 Mel Miller, Apr 30, 2006
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