Originally posted by DHK: I gave you one verse with one question, to keep things simple. In answering this lengthy post it becomes difficult mostly for the reasons that:
I have explained many of these Scriptures already and you refuse my explanation, so what is the point.
What I am refusing to accept is that you are IGNORING texts that disagree with your doctrine.
You have taken many Scriptures out of their contexts
Context? Let’s see, according to you the last week of the 70 weeks of Daniel are the tribulation period, yet there is NO mention of the tribulation period in that passage. However, there is mention of Jesus, and HIS action that stopped the sacrifices.
Daniel 9:25. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the
commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem(457 BC) unto the
Messiah the Prince (27 AD) shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks [69 weeks]: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.(completed in 408 BC)
26.And after threescore and two weeks [62 weeks] shall
Messiah be cut off (31 AD), but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (Rome 70 AD); and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 28.And he shall
confirm the covenant with many for one week(27-34 AD Gospel preached to Israel): and in the midst of the week he shall
cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease(31 AD Crucifixion), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the
consummation (time of consuming- i.e. FIRE), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
457 BC Order given to rebuild Jerusalem
408 BC Jerusalem and Temple completed (7 PW or 49 L years)
27 AD Jesus anointed ‘confirming the covenant with Israel’ (exactly 69 PW or 483 L years after the order)
31 AD Jesus is crucified (exactly 3 1/2 L years after He was anointed, or ‘in the midst of a PW)
34 AD End of ‘covenant’ marked by the stoning of Steven and the Gospel goes to the Gentiles (exactly 70 PW from the order or 490 L years)
(*PW- prophetic weeks *L literal years)
Now, HOW does that leave room for a 7 year tribulation period?
…and tried to link them together to try to prove your presupposition, which is not good hermeneutics, or exegesis.
Hermeneutics The science of interpretation and explanation;
exegesis; esp., that branch of theology which defines the
laws whereby the meaning of the Scriptures is to be ascertained. Exegesis to explain, interpret; to guide, lead, akin, to 1. Exposition; explanation; especially, a critical explanation of a text or portion of Scripture.
I do not follow the laws of man when it comes to HOW I interpret scripture. As far as linking scripture together, that is my OBEDIENCE to the Bible.
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept
must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line;
here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line;
here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
MUST BE, that sounds like a COMMAND to me.
Your logic is largely wanting.
Largely wanting what? To agree with yours? My logic is based on the Bible.
Pro 3:3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
Pro 3:4 So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Pro 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Pro 3:8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.
The BIBLE is TRUTH, not your opinion. Even if it is popular. The Bible interprets itself:
Genesis 2:7. And the Lord God formed man of the *dust* of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the *breath of life*; and man became a living *soul*.
*Dust* - aphar- 1) dry earth, dust, powder, ashes, earth, ground, mortar, rubbish 1a) dry or loose earth 1b) debris 1c) mortar 1d) ore
*Breath of Life*-'nshamah'1) breath, spirit 1a) breath (of God) 1b) breath (of man) 1c) every breathing thing 1d) spirit (of man)
*Soul* - 'nephesh' 1) soul, living being,1a) that which breathes, 1b) living being 1c) living being (with life in the blood).
So far, so good. You are able to post Scripture and definitions.
dust+breath=a living soul
Now here is where you start getting yourself into trouble. You know what you just stated above is not always true. If I take some dust and breath upon it I don't get a living soul. Your equation is fallible, and in more than one way.
My equation is based on scripture, and YOUR breath does not have the power to create, however God’s does. It is simple, either you believe what the Bible says or you don’t. I leave it to you.
Now reverse the process:
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the *dust* return to the earth as it was: and the *spirit* shall return unto God who gave it.
*Dust* - aphar- the same as Genesis 2:7
*Spirit* - ruwach- 1) wind, breath, spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals) 1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death.
dust-breath=dust!
If you do not acknowledge these passages I will assume that you agree!
You know those from cults quote from the book of Ecclesiastes profusely. They love, but don't understand it, thus they quote it out of context.
Firstly, keep your MAN MADE definition of a cult to yourself. Secondly the book of Ecclesiastes is a sermon that Solomon gave. It was INSPIRED by God.
Eccl.12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
--Solomon, throughout the book, is speaking from the viewpoint of a philosopher, from the world's point of view, not necessarily God's point of view.
I’m sorry, did you really just say that? My mind reels that you could actually say that the WORD of GOD that was WITH God and IS God, is ‘NOT necessarily God’s point of view’!!!! Unbelievable.
Thus the theme of the book is "Vanity (emptiness) of vanities; all is vanity." In the first six verses of chapter 12 he descriptively and figuratively tells of a man growing old, then in verse 7, he dies. And as he humanly observes the body will decay and turn into dust, and the spirit will return to God. The last part is true only for a believer. For an unbeliever the spirit would go to Hell, await the Great White Throne Judgment, at that time be united with it's resurrected body and be cast into the lake of fire.
So then the unbeliever will go to ‘hell’, receiving his reward (according to this doctrine), and then be BROUGHT back out of hell, and put back into a body, that is now IMMORTAL (according to you), and then be judged (for the life that he has ALREADY been suffering punishment for).
That makes NO sense. And you say MY logic is wanting.
Well I can think of something worse than taking Scripture out of context, MAKING a doctrine up without any Scriptural support!
I am not the one that is making up doctrine without Scriptural support. Posting Scripture does not mean correct doctrine, if you don't have understanding of the Scripture.
OH!!! I see it now, unless I have YOUR understanding of scripture, I am taking things out of context and making up doctrines. That, again, is unbelievable.
Well then, by all means let me do that for you:
CONTEXT: IN a letter written to Israel through the prophet Malachi. Various warnings and commandments to the people of Israel are issued.(LARGE portion of statement about the direction the text went that you DID NOT repost here) Enough context? Or should I post the whole book?
Had you but posted the above, it would have been much better: "a letter written to Israel through the prophet Malachi." Like I said before, it was not a letter written to you. By that I mean the promises specifically given to the nation of Israel cannot be applied to the gentiles, and that is what you are doing. Taking Scripture out of context.
So then I guess it means NOTHING to you that it says ‘and
all the proud, yea, and
all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and
the day that cometh
shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts…’
I guess that isn’t part of ‘the exegesis’ of your doctrine to read the word ALL and believe that it means ALL.
The verses were written by Malachi, thus the book is called the Book of Malachi. They were addressed to the nation of Israel, not to: 3Angelsmom.
Ok, firstly your sarcasm here is SOOO not funny, and you are getting dangerously close to blasphemy here. NOT FOR ME???
There is nothing remotely close to blasphemy here. I don't know what you are talking about. Like I explained above, promises given to the nation of Israel cannot always be applied to the gentiles. It is as simple as that.
How could you NOT know what I am talking about, I just explained it to you! You said that the book of Malachi IS NOT FOR 3AngelsMom! Now unless there is someone else here named that, you are referring to ME. I AM , and if you were grafted into the family of God, are too, NO longer a gentile.
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Is this not for me either?:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
All Scripture is profitable for you, but not all scripture is "for" you. The promise to Abraham, that God would make of him a blessing to many nations, in him would all the nations of the world be blessed. That promise is not for you.
That promise is referring to the Messiah. The ‘blessing’ that would come from Abraham is HIS seed, that is Jesus. It says in that passage that ALL the nations of the world will be blessed by it.
God did not promise that to you.
So then the Messiah is not for me?
All the promises of the Bible are not for you.
That I will agree with, on the grounds that I am a woman and not a father or son, and there are promises in the Bible for men, brothers, sons, fathers, husbands, and preachers. Other than that, I am a child of God, and the promises that are for Israel, ARE for the children of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. My God.
God promised that He would speak to Moses through a burning bush, but He didn't promise that to you. ALL is not FOR you.
In what passage did God promise Moses He would speak through a burning bush? I don’t recall ever seeing that. All I know of is God DOING it.
How about this?:
Psa 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
And just for good measure:
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Yep, some good Scriptures.
I find it interesting that you can read those verses and still say that the Word of God is not ALL for me. Again, the word there is EVERY, ALL, these are not difficult terms to understand. They are words of totality. They mean that NOTHING is excluded.
AND don't forget some Context:
Romans 15:1. We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. 2. Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. 3. For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. 4. For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. 5. Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: 6. That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
EVERY WORD FROM 'In the beginning' to 'The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you, AMEN' is FOR ME.
No, that is not so. Every word is for your learning. not for "you"
Every word is for my learning but not FOR me? How is that?
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Is that for Israel too? It’s in Hebrews!!
Mal.4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:--Elijah will indeed come again. He is one of the two witnesses in Revelation 11.
I'm sorry, WHAT? God sent Elijah, HE WAS JOHN THE BAPTIST. (The 2 witnesses are the Old and New Testament.)
Luk 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
Gee, that sounds like Malachi....
John the Baptist, as you quoted, came in the spirit and power of Elijah. He was not Elijah. Elijah will come again, as promised in Malachi. He will be one of the two witnesses of Rev.11
Now how is that a prophecy IN Malachi, that is ‘for Israel only’ can be the partial fulfillment of a prophecy in Revelation that is FOR ALL????
Again, the 2 Witnesses are the Old and New Testament. They are the WITNESSES of Jesus. The Old because it prophecies His first advent, and the New because it testifies of His life and sacrifice and tells of His second advent. The prophecy of the 2 Witnesses has already been fulfilled.
Rev 11:3. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days (1260 PD=1260 L years), clothed in sackcloth.
1260 years 538 AD to 1798 AD the period of time known as the ‘Dark Ages’. When the Bible was not allowed to be read by common people, but priests only. These 2 Messengers were ‘clothed in sackcloth’ because the Light of the Word was obscured.
4.These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. (could not be Moses or Elijah, for neither were EVER called an Olive tree)
5.And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6.These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
7.And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8.And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called
Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
The beast will make war with them. Overcome and kill them. The French Revolution (1789-1801AD) was not only political but religious. They rebelled against the Papal rule in Rome and the Monarchy in France. They threw all rule out the window and replaced it with ‘The Goddess of Reason’ and a form of secular humanism. The French BURNED Bibles in the street. For the first time in 1260 years, the world was no longer controlled from Rome. On February 15, 1798 the Pope was taken captive by Napoleon and placed in exile where he died. The ‘philosophers’ of that time were the new ‘priests’. People like Voltaire and Rousseau led the people into a general revolt against GOD. They were the first nation to ever ‘de-Christian-ize’ themselves. France was at this time ‘spiritually’ KILLING the Word of God.
9.And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10.And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
The people in France were disgustingly wicked and lived very hedonistic lifestyles. They trampled on the Word of God with their actions. And rejoiced to do so.
11.And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13.And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the
tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
After the 3 ½ years of the French Revolution, Napoleon was defeated, and a new era was dawning. The Bible Societies that we still have today, that were started by Joseph Hughes, a Baptist
began at the close of this 3 ½ year period, in the mid part of 1800.
Sodom/Egypt- Where our Lord was crucified. Rome was a great Empire at the time of Christ and at the time of the Dark ages. Rome is what it is talking of here. France, was at this time a part of the Roman Empire ‘a tenth’ part. That part ‘fell’. (The Roman Empire at that moment in history was made up of 10 parts). The ‘earthquake’ of the French Revolution claimed an unknown number of lives. Some believe it to be more than the American Revolution. The French fought for 23 years. Only God knows how many were killed. Those who remained after the revolution rejoiced, and gave God the Glory.
Let's see, Revelation 6-19:
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. That is the only verse that says 'tribulation' and it is talking about people coming OUT of it, not being raptured before it. But I am sure you are going to say next that it is referring to those who were saved DURING the trib, right? Well I will go ahead and answer that now, and save you the trouble: Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. The context there is the 7 last plagues before Christ's return, and the first resurrection.
The first resurrection takes place before the Great Tribulation. The Bible specifically says that we are saved from wrath.
Based on ONE verse (that you didn’t reference) you think that Jesus will ‘rapture’ the dead and living saints BEFORE the plagues?
CONTEXT??????
Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and
no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
Rev 19:1 And after these things (the plagues) I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Plagues THEN Second Coming and Resurrection.
Thirdly HOW do YOU know what HE means? If you are comparing His Word to my opinion, THEY AGREE. If you are comparing my opinion to what YOU think He MEANS, then this argument is moot.
Your opinion is wrong, and opinions don't count. What does count is the Word of God, properly understood, and taken in its rightful context.
‘opinions don’t count’ vs. ‘the Word, PROPERLY UNDERSTOOD’ hmmm, GREAT contradiction.
Jer.4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.--This passage talks only of the land of Palestine. Jeremiah is directing his remarks to the Jewish nation. It is a judgment on them, not the whole world. Here is where you get the context from, just a few verses earlier:
22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. -My people is specifically Judah.
Ok, either you didn't read the whole passage or you are intentionally refusing to accept this:
Jeremiah 4:23. I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light...
My people:
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
WE are His People.
You are comparing two unrelated Scriptures. Jeremiah 4 is speaking of a judgment on Judah, period. Don't read more into it than is intended.
How are they not related? In the OT the Gentiles were dogs, in the NT they are sons. If the prophecy for ‘Judah’ is NOT for the whole world, then neither is the prophecies in Revelations, for it is to the 7 Churches.
That is precisely why it refers to the dead. They are being resurrected at this point to face their Judge.
But that is not what you said before. You said 'they were ALREADY resurrected at this point'.
There are two resurrections separated by just over a thousand years, one thousand and seven years to be precise.
Firstly, DUH, of course there are 2 resurrections, however they are separated by 1000 years as the Bible says (as opposed to the FALSE statement you just made):
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
NO, not EVERYTHING is relative. Do you know what 'relative' means? Not the 'theory of relativity' but the word relative. It means 'that which relates to'. So if forever in Samuel, means until he died (for he is not still in the temple NOW) and forever in the Levitical law for slaves meant until he died (for a slave is not still serving his master NOW), then forever in reference to a MORTAL wicked man, means UNTIL he dies.
What is logical here is: If forever in Samuel means until he died, then forever in a heavenly scene means for eternity. Samuel served in the temple on earth in space and time. The Great White Throne Judgment will take place in Heaven where there is no time--only eternity, and the punishment is likewise eternal.
Ok, that made no sense. Samuel- mortal, IS not serving in the Temple RIGHT NOW. Even if he was in heaven (which he could have been part of the special resurrection at the time of Christ’s death) he wouldn’t be serving in the temple! The Great White Throne Judgment is HERE on earth AFTER the 2nd Resurrection and the New Jerusalem has been brought down. Eternity, and eternal life only applies to the SAVED. The lost do NOT get eternal life. They do not receive immortal bodies. THAT IS A DOCTRINE OF DEMONS.
and since wicked people will not have ANYTHING that is immortal, 'forever' for them is until they die.
Where do you get these sick lies?
I'm sorry, did you want to back that up with scripture? WHERE does it say that the wicked will be raised immortal?
Rev.20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
--Those in the first resurrection will "reign with him a thousand years" (vs.6). Those in the second resurrection (vs.5), "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." At the end of the thousand years is the second resurrection when every unsaved person will stand before God, as Judge. They will be there in both body and spirit. A resurrection always refers to the body.
They will be there in the bodies that were in the grave. NOT new immortal ones. They will be the same thing that went into the grave, the ‘living soul’ that was here before. This same ‘soul’ that died and slept in the grave, will hear His voice and come forth to the judgment. There is NO mention in scripture of a 1007 years between the 2 resurrections. The doctrine that is sick is one that is TOTALLY made up.
1007 day prophecy – Left Behind- By Tim Lahaye and Jerry B. Jenkins.
At the second resurrection, what is resurrected? What stands before God at the Great White Throne Judgment?
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
MEN are judged not 'spirits'.
That is correct, men are judged. Men are composed of both body and spirit.
Men are body and spirit, the bodies are sleeping awaiting the resurrection, in which they will ‘hear HIS voice’ and come forth. The wicked to everlasting damnation and the righteous to IMMORTALITY and everlasting life. This doctrine you hold is false.
We just agreed it is men that are judged (and women). They are not just spirits. The second resurrection speaks of bodies. A resurrection, any resurrection speaks of bodies. There is no such thing as a "spirit" resurrection, as the J.W.'s try and teach. It is a concept that does not make sense. Like Solomon said in Eccl.12:7, the spirit goes back to God at death. But Solomon never referred to that as a resurrection.
I didn’t say that spirit was resurrected, you are dodging the question. WHERE in the Bible does it say that the wicked receive immortality?
Just like Samuel, serving forever, and a slave serving his master forever, the fire will burn until they die.
Never does it say anywhere that the fire will burn until they die. You believe a lie.
Never does it say ANYWHERE that the wicked will have the ability to live forever, YOU believe a lie.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
DEATH. They die. The nature of fire is that it burns while there is fuel for it. Eternal fire is only different in ONE respect, that the thing that is burned up WILL NOT ever be rebuilt. Look in the bible at ever place that ‘eternal fire’ is mentioned and you will see that anything or anyone who suffered ‘eternal fire’ were, utterly consumed, burnt up, destroyed, and furthermore were NOT rebuilt or revived. The fire is not eternal, the effects of the fire are eternal.
Ok, if there is a new heaven (the whole universe outside our planet) and a new earth (either a new one entirely or a new earth on the 'abyss' of this one) and the 'old' things are passed away, WHERE are the wicked? If ALL things are new, and there is NOTHING left that is from the 'old' universe, WHERE are the wicked?
The word "heaven" is used in three different ways in the Bible: Heaven, as in God's abode; Heaven, as in all the universe; and Heaven, as in the atmosphere of our earth. The question is, in both 2Peter 3:10-12, and in Rev.21, what Heaven is God referring to. We know He is not referring to His abode. Many believe that the Heaven He is referring to is simply the atmosphere of the earth, since the rest of the universe was left untainted by Adam's sin. Thus a new heaven and a new earth would refer just to our planet and its atmosphere. Exactly where Hell is, the Lake of Fire, the wicked, etc: these are all speculative questions and cannot be answered, because the Bible does not give us any information concerning it. Where the Bible is silent we must be silent. God is still in control.
The Bible is NOT silent as to WHERE the Lake of Fire will be. IT WILL BE HERE!!!!
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and
fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
The Lake of Fire is established when Fire comes down out of heaven and CONSUMES the masses.
What about the moon? Man has been on there, now it is tainted too?
The countless of millions that will spend eternity in Hell will do so for one reason only. They decided to of their own accord: by rejecting Christ as Savior.
The countless millions who rejected Christ as Savior, rejected the gift of ETERNAL LIFE, therefore it would be IMMPOSSIBLE for them to be LIVING in hell. The wages of sin is DEATH. NOT eternal life in hell.
The wages of sin is death--eternal death (contrasted to eternal life). Your problem is the definition of death. Death is separation. It is being eternally separated from God in the Lake of fire. Death is not sleep, cessation, nor is it annihilation. It is separation from God.
Physical death, spoken of in James 1:27 is separation of the body from the spirit. When the body separates from the spirit one is dead. Death is separation. DHK
There are so many contradictions in that statement that I don’t know where to start.
You say ‘the wages of sin is death- eternal death (contrast- life) You just added a word to the BIBLE. It does NOT say eternal death. It says death.
Your problem is that you REFUSE to believe that the BIBLE calls death SLEEP. I will admit that the actual word 'annihilation' is not in the Bible, but you REFUSE to admit that what the Bible says is true!
‘Death is not sleep’
THAT my friend is a lie.
James 1:27 you say?
James 1:27. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
What did you mean to put?
God Bless
Edited for spelling
[ January 25, 2003, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: 3AngelsMom ]
