Joel Osteen

Quoting Ac 5:38 "And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:" is NOT a way to measure truth, Gamaliel was probably Paul's mentor as a Pharisee and Paul counted his former life but dung. Gamaiiel was not defending the Christians, he wasn't even a believer. By the same logic he proposed we could say Islam is a work of God because it has not come to nought. Romans 16 tells me to mark them which cause division and that's what I'm gonna' do!!!

Atestring said:Winston Churchill once said, " It takes a skilled carpenter to build a barn , but any old jackass can tear one down."

Right on Atestring!!

To the rest of you, Jesus spoke the following scripture, so what do you say about that?

Mark 9-39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.


Peace,

Tam

I almost fell for it. I used to listen to him, and I purchased his book. After reading the first two chapters, it seemed as if he was promoting breaking of the 10th commandment. He seemed to say that it was OK to covet other people's things, because God wants to give you His favour and provide you with them.

I found it to be extremely controversial.

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

Acts 5-35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.


Keep attacking what could be more of Gods people at your own peril.

Peace,


Tam

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Tam Lady, there is no peril in exposing false teachings, and that is what Osteen is putting out. In fact, Eph. 5.11 tells us to expose evil, which would include false teachings.

Read for yourselves:

http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/archives/lichow2.htm

http://www.internetmonk.com/archives/2005/01/019842.html

http://cultlink.com/ar/osteen.htm

These have been posted on page one, but this is for those who haven't been or won't go to page one.

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

To the rest of you, Jesus spoke the following scripture, so what do you say about that?

Mark 9-39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.


Peace,

Tam

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This passage has nothing to do with false teachings and is one incident. It is not telling us to accept false teachers, is it? Of course not! Since Jesus warned against false teachers, and Paul himself said that false teachers would rise up withing the church (see Acts 20), we know that we are supposed to be on the lookout for them. We cannot stand idly by while people misuse God's word to mislead people.

False teachings are not only an attack on the Bible and the faith, but are an attack on Jesus Christ Himself. The most deceptive teachings are the ones that appear to be Christian, that use the same terminology, but teach doctrines against God's word.

Marcia, [snipped] what was I thinking!!

Of course I should know that Baptists have the WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUTand are never wrong about anything.

Why do I try??

It's all yours!!!

[ March 11, 2005, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

Tam, if you don't like the stance that Baptists take on issues of false teachers and such, then perhaps you might want to consider posting on a board that considers those wolves sound in the doctrine, no matter what they believe.

What do you mean "why do I try?"

Are you attempting to convince us that Joel Osteen's teachings are biblical, or that we should accept whatever he teaches because it is in the name of the Lord?

Either one is an afront to God and His precious truths in scripture.

I think the work being done through Osteen is good, for the most part, because he is good at motivating people to feel good about themselves and to live their lives right. However, I believe that is in spite of his theology, rather than because of it.

He's great at teaching the basic doctrine of loving the Lord and living right, but almost all of the rest of his theology is down right abhorent and people should be aware so they do not believe such things as "God's hands are tied and we must loose them for Him".

I heard Osteen say that with my own ears. If that is not heresy, then I just don't know what is. How many thousaands of people now believe that very false doctrine because he "preached" it to them?

If he would stick to a "feel-good" message (motivational speaking), and leave the doctrinal preaching to a qualified man, then we wouldn't be complaining about him.

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

Marcia, [snipped] what was I thinking!!

Of course I should know that Baptists have the WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUTand are never wrong about anything.

Why do I try??

It's all yours!!!

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Tam lady, I think this sarcastic personal attack on me is beneath you, don't you? There is no substance in it. I and others have provided links showing the truth of what Osteen teaches. Why do you ignore it? Why do you feel you must defend him and/or attack a brother or sister in Christ for the sake of a false teacher? This has nothing to do with being Baptist.

Instead of making such a remark, why don't you say why you agree with Osteen's New Thought teachings (New Thought and Word Faith are almost the same -- your thoughts will create your reality in New Thought; WF adds your words will create reality)?

I havent seen Joel Osteen on TV much, so take this with a grain of salt, I guess. This might not be accurate of what he usually preaches.

But the thing that I have noticed on the few times I did stop for a little bit when flipping through the channels was the almost complete lack or scripture during the message.

It came across sort of like another Robert Schuller. In other words, just a christianised "pep talk"

"You can be happy"

"You can hang in there!"

"God will see you through!"

"You can make it!"

"You can hang in there!"

"You can have victory!"

"God will see you through"

Etc etc etc etc.

There are times when those things are great encouragment, and should be said during a message, but that shouldnt be the entire message with no scriptural truth to explain WHY those things might be true.

Mike

An auctioneer has a lot to say---and at the end of what he has to say, I can take something home with me!

Olsteen has a lot to say---but the problem is---at the end of what he has to say---there's nothing to take home!

Marcia,you said:

Tam lady, I think this sarcastic personal attack on me is beneath you, don't you? There is no substance in it

This was not intended as a personal attack on you. If you read it before the "snip", you would probably have seen that.

My point is that most everybody keeps missing my point.

I am NOT defending Joel. He says things I don't agree with either.

I am merely pointing out what Jesus said about such people. You might want to compare Joel to the tares growing up with the wheat.

Heres one more scripture:Luke 9-49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

But I will leave this particular thread to the more accepted comments of others.

Peace,

Tam

I don't know much about this preacher to form an opinion about whether or not he is a brother in Christ. I do know that I cannot stand to listen to him for more than a few minutes and I have to change the channel.

He doesn't sound like he takes the Word of God seriously but rather is using it as.... well I just can't put I finger on it. This is just an opinion for I don't know much about him, but what little I heard him preach was not sitting well within my spirit.

Of course I like to hear the meat of the Word and not that everyday is just wonderful for the believer in Christ. He has one tone all the time with a smile on his face! A good preacher preaches the full counsel of God and many things that cannot be preached with a smile.

I believe he is so well liked because he doesn't tell people what they need to hear. He tells them what they want to hear! "Make me feel good preacher"!

I believe in a balance. I don't see any in Joel.

God Bless!

If any think Joel is not preaching right, please compare what Joel preaches with what this says.........

"In Christian bookstores, there are almost always 'cult' sections which include the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. So, I am not alone in describing what a non-Christian, bible based cult is. Nevertheless, what makes something non-Christian is when it denies the essential doctrines of the Bible.

The Deity of Christ, which involves The Trinity
the Resurrection, and
Salvation by Grace"

*This information was found at http://www.carm.org/cults/cults.htm
(I know this is taliking of books but also I feel it can apply to preachers too.

I have to agree with Tam where she quoted the words of our Lord and Savior "Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."

If Joel isn't up and up or his steps are not being ordered by the Lord then he will be exsposed. (*Or the tare will eventally be pulled out of the wheat. Once the wheat is grown and strong.) BTW, In Joels ministry i see him as an ecourager, I figure there are some Christians that may need encouragement. Also the Lord also made exhorters didn't He? As we all know there h*ll, fire, and brimstone preachers and then there are preachers who exhort.....hey and if your lucky you can acually find a well balenced preacher too. As far as saying Joel said this and that and this was wrong or that was wrong....ask yourself this....has your preacher ever said anything out of context or off the path at any time? What about you have you ever said or believe anything to later find out that is wasn't exsactly right? We are human folks, but thats no excuse. What about "to err is human, but to forgive is devine". Since some have posted this info of Joel's doctrine mistakes... I have to ask did you ever shoot him a email and ask exsactly what he ment by it and point it out to him? What did Joel say?

Matthew 18:15-20 tells us what to do with a brother who sins, would this also apply to Ole' Joel?

Matthew 18:15
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican.
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.


Music4Him

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

Marcia,you said:

Tam lady, I think this sarcastic personal attack on me is beneath you, don't you? There is no substance in it

This was not intended as a personal attack on you. If you read it before the "snip", you would probably have seen that.

My point is that most everybody keeps missing my point.

I am NOT defending Joel. He says things I don't agree with either.

I am merely pointing out what Jesus said about such people. You might want to compare Joel to the tares growing up with the wheat.

Heres one more scripture:Luke 9-49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

But I will leave this particular thread to the more accepted comments of others.

Peace,

Tam

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Your quotes do not refer to false teachings. Jesus warned us against false teachers and told us to reject them. Paul spoke out against false teachers and teachings.

It's not just a matter of Osteen not quoting much scripture of being like Schuller in his motivational type sermons. He actually teaches that our thoughts and words create reality -- this is not only unbiblical but comes from New Thought and Word Faith teachings, which are against the Bible.

You are saying we should not speak out against false teachings? I have to disagree.

Originally posted by Marcia:
It's not just a matter of Osteen not quoting much scripture or being like Schuller in his motivational type sermons. He actually teaches that our thoughts and words create reality -- this is not only unbiblical but comes from New Thought and Word Faith teachings, which are against the Bible.

You are saying we should not speak out against false teachings? I have to disagree. [/QB]

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You're absolutely right, Marcia. I've heard Osteen teach these very things on TV. When he teaches this stuff he is not teaching the Gospel of Christ, but a new gospel. This kind of doctrine is unbiblical. This kind of false teaching needs to be exposed as erroneous.

It sounds like Joel Osteen doesn't say "shiboleth" in a way that some people like it pronounced. Didn't people that said shiboleth with the wrong accent get killed?
Is that what some of you want????

Originally posted by atestring:
It sounds like Joel Osteen doesn't say "shiboleth" in a way that some people like it pronounced. Didn't people that said shiboleth with the wrong accent get killed?
Is that what some of you want????

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What are you talking about atestring? This has nothing to do with false teachings. Why don't you discuss the issues of Osteen's teachings? Did you read the links? Do you know what he teaches?

BTW, atestring, your post is known as a straw man.

After glancing through these posts, about Osteen, I'd like to know what all of your pastors preach on a Sunday night service?

I mean like from the time you enter your church, what happens that is so much more biblical than what Joel preaches.

I would go as far as to say that he preaches repentance or "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." So, why all of the complaining?

Keep in mind that this is your doctrine of salvation..not mine. I believe there is more to the meaning of "Believe" than some think...but that's another topic.

If you all don't like his style, it seems that someone does!...or why would he have so many followers?

I heard my mother talking about him and how much she liked him. Now, my mother is seventy-six years old and hasen't served God since she was in her teens. If this man can get her attention through his preaching, I'd say there is hope for her return to God. That's make his preaching OK in my book. At least it's a step!

Now back to my question, "What happens in your churches on Sunday nights that is so much greater than that of Joel Osteen's?"

MEE

"See the Bible says that we can grow in favor," said Osteen in his sermon "Increasing in Favor" (available in RealAudio at http://www.lakewood.cc/a_v_library.htm). "I believe one of the main ways that we grow in favor is by declaring it. It’s not enough to just read it it’s not enough to just believe it. You’ve got to speak it out. Your words have creative power. And one of the primary ways we release our faith is through our words. And there is a divine connection between you declaring God’s favor and you seeing God’s favor manifest in your life…You’ve got to give life to your faith by speaking it out."
http://www.cultlink.com/ar/osteen.htm

This is not repentance. It is not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ an be saved.
It is believe or "have faith on your own words," and that is heresy.
DHK