Do we need to have the Holy Ghost to be saved?

Hmmm.

Rom 9:13 says that God hated Esau. I seem to recall that Yahweh said "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." Rom 9:15

If He died for all then He partly died in vain, intentionally.

 

A) I don't have a question about it. The Bible is clear.

B) Given that you brought it up in this thread, this is the appropriate thread.

 

Lorelei:
John's baptism was not valid because it had been supercede by the baptism of Christ. Mat. 28:18-20.
The text of Acts 19:1-6 also point out that one cannot be taught and believe wrong and be right before God.

The 120 did not receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The text makes it clear it was the 12.Luke 24:46-50, Acts 1:4,5;2:1-4,7,14.

Cornelius received the Holy Spirit for the purpose of proving that gentiles were to receive the gospel as well as Jews. See Acts 11:15-18;10:11-48.

The inspired Peter said baptism was for the remission of sins. Acts 2:38, Acts 10:48, I Pet. 3:21.

 

ONENESS posted:

This was Oneness's original question? Actually I think she misquoted me. Without looking back at the thread I believe I said that one doesn't need the baptism of the Holy Spirit to go to Heaven. There is a big difference between that and what Oneness said.

However, Frank, my challenge to either one of you is to give a plain presentation of the plan of salvation without going outside of the Book of Romans. Can you do this. Or must you rely on some of your pet verses in Acts to uphold some of your unorthodox doctrines?
DHK

 

DHK:

I believe the whole counsel of God. Acts 20:27. The sum of it is truth. Psalms 119:160. The sum of the truth reveals the plan of salvation. Mk. 10:32,33, Luke 24:46-50, Mk. 14;24, Hebrews 9:22,Hebrews 10:19- 22, Rev.1:7, Eph. 5:26 Acts 22;16, John 8:24, Luke 13:3, Mat. 10:32, Mk. 16:16, Mk. 1;15, II Thes. 2;14,15, I Cor. 15:1-4, John 3:36.

Jesus said, all these things were essential for salvation. By the way, none of these are from the book of Romans.

Why do you exclude the rest of the New Testament? Are the other 26 books not good enough for you?
The first Gospel message was preached in Acts 2. Just go to the source to find the plan of salvation. It is all there. Just accept the simplicity of Christ. II Cor. 11:3. In Acts 2, you will find the death burial and resurrection of Christ. vs.23,24,27, 31. The hope it brings to man. vs.26-28. The message of salvation. vs, 37,38.Of course, you would not get to close to the book of Acts, especially 2:38-41. Tell me, does your Bible have a book of Acts and or James in it? Or, did the Holy Spirit tell you to remove them because Peter and James were wrong about salvation and you are right?

This is so much just blowing in the wind. Just let it take you any where you want to go.

 

"However, Frank, my challenge to either one of you is to give a plain presentation of the plan of salvation without going outside of the Book of Romans. Can you do this. Or must you rely on some of your pet verses in Acts to uphold some of your unorthodox doctrines?"

In other words Frank, your answer is NO, you cannot show the plan of salvation through the Book of Romans, a book that deals entirely with salvation. You need supporting verses from the Book of Acts especialy to support your heresies. You have just proven my point.
DHK

[ November 25, 2002, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

DHK:
I just provided the evidence for the plan of salvation. These scriptures provide the answer to the divine question, " What must I do to be saved?" Acts 2:37;9:6;16:30. The rational mind makes only those conclusions as are warranted by the totality of the evidence. You,sir, just as you have at other times posting about this subject, have along with this latest challenge, proven that you are irrational.
I answered your challenge harmoniously from the words of Christ, the gospel accounts, and the book of Acts. The presentation was both simple and thorough. You just do not like the answer.
Of course, I understand you have difficulties in math and english. For you, it is grace alone and faith alone. However, when something is alone,it is all by itself. Grace alone and faith alone are not alone but equal two. However, other times, it is the blood alone and Christ alone. Other times, it also includes repentance and confession. I believe that makes six. This must be that new math! Each and every one of these elements is a different word with a different meaning. Logic dictates that things that are different are not the same. The same is true for the english and greek language, which is the original language of the new testament.

Furthermore, and is a coordinating conjunction that connects two in likeness. See Mk. 16:16. But contrasts two or more things or phrases. see Mark 16:16. It is most difficult to prove anything to someone who changes the rules of english and math. However, such is the nature of irrational thought.

I cannot help the fact you refuse to search the Bible to see if these things are so! Acts 17:11, II Tim. 2:15; 4:1-4.

In other threads, I have posted at least ten elements essential to salvation, ALL DIRECT QUOTES FROM THE BIBLE. This does not help, as you ignore grammar, word meanings and are lacking in math skills. If this does not work, you array scripture against scripture. Again, this approach to knowing the truth is both irrrational and illogical.

I challenge you to learn addition, word meanings, the rules of grammar, and most importantly the new testament and the rules of interpretation. if you know these things, then use them!

 

So if you can't answer a question, you answer with mean spirited innuendo. Is that right?

I will ask again:

Until you can show me the plan of salvation out of Romans, Frank, I will assume you do not know what the plan of salvation is.
DHK

 

The question was not how many, the question was when were they baptized "in the name of Jesus"?

Again, the question was not for what purpose, it was how was that possible since they had not yet been baptized?

~Lorelei

 

Thanks for clearing that up! The thread was started because of a comment you made, but they didn't show us what comment they were referring to. Knowing what you believe, I was really confused at what they were trying to say you said, because I know you wouldn't say what they said you had said. But now I know what you did say and you are right, there is a big difference in what you did say and what they say you said!

The quote box is used so often when it isn't necessary and then forgotten when it should be used.

~Lorelei

 

Note for All:
On the "Baptism for Baptists Thread" the last post was this:

Originally posted by ONENESS:

Answer by DHK

This was what was originally said, and from where ONENESS 'quoted' from.
DHK

 

Romans 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to REPENTANCE?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
--It is only the goodness of God that leads you to repentance; that will lead you to change your mind about your sinful way of life and turn you to God. But you despise the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering. Because of the hardness of your heart your treasure will be the wrath of God in the day of judgement. As long as you spurn the gospel, faith in his sacrificial blood, and faith alone, you keep adding to that wrath. "God is angry with the wicked every day." You already have "the revelation of the righteous judgement of God." You refuse his revelation to repent of your wickedness in including baptism as a part of your salvation. Repent of this wickedness. Salvation is by grace alone. Accept it by faith alone. God provided it by His grace. It was by grace He died on the cross. It was His grace He loved you and died for you. Accept this sacrifice by faith, lest you treasure up for yourself His wrath in the day of wrath.
Repentance is taught in Romans.
DHK