One new man...

The Scripture seems to indicate that Jews and Gentiles who find faith in Jesus are one in Christ.

There is also another sense that ' . . . some of the branches were broken off ' so that 'a wild olive tree might be grafted into Christ.' [Romans 11:17] In a general sense the Israelites have refused to accept Christ as their Messiah and Savior. This is why they are broken off; but this does not mean that no Israelites can turn to the Lord. They can come just as Gentiles come into the faith.

After the rapture and the fulness of the Gentiles come into the faith [Romans 11:25] the Israelite world will come back to Christ by the thousands. Israel will rise again spiritually speaking as a national people; they will find Christ. This is what Ezekiel 37 is all about. Romans eleven verse twenty-six says the same. 'And so all Israel shall be saved . . . '
What an ingathering this will be!

 

Saints throughout history have suffered martyrdom and paid a huge price for their faith in Jesus Christ. American Christians today expect they will carried to Heaven on flowery beds of ease. American Christians don't hope for a great resurrection, they hope for a great escape. I guess they must think they are more special compared to Christians in the past
2000 years.

 

If it is true that Messianic Christians worship on the Sabbath while Christians worship on the first day of the week, there might be a problem here that will have to be resolved. There are other deeper problems like Messianic Christians believing in the Kingdom Age/Millenimum/1,000 year reign of Christ on the earth, while most Catholics and even some Protestants don't believe the O.T. or N.T. Scriptures as to Christ's future reign on earth in Jerusalem. [Ezekiel 37; Micah 5:2; Zechariah 14:17; Revelation chapter twenty]

Christ our Lord knows that we are one with Him. I don't understand why we must walk arm in arm with these brethren when we do not do this as Catholics and Protestant and other indendent Christians. Is window dressing really that important? Sure it would be nice but it will never happen because of the differences of personality and the uniqueness of our various Christian doctrines.

 

Jim --

As a Torah-observant believer, I am very
uncomfortable in churches. What makes me
uncomfortable? If I list those things, it will only
serve to cause division and more arguments in this
thread, but they are legitimate concerns which my
Torah community seems to have solved within our
synagogue, as well as traditions and practices
that are unacceptable to me as a believer.

Indeed, as one mentioned, I will never switch my
day I set aside weekly for worship and rest away
from the Sabbath, so this is a built-in area of
contention. While I do, on rare occasion, visit my
husband's church, I am very ill at ease there,
especially during your holidays -- and during my
holy days as well!

This year, Christmas occurs during the Chanukah
season. My husband will have his decorations
up, and I will have mine up, sharing the space.
Fortunately for me, he does not do trees, santa
clauses, etc., concentrating purely upon the birth
of Messiah. Regardless, this places me in a very
uncomfortable position, because the fact is that I
dislike Christmas -- extremely!

My grandchildren will perform in their Christmas
programs, as will my children and husband. I will
"bite the bullet" and attend, but it is hard. If not for
my love for these wonderful people, I would not
go to any Christmas celebrations or the following
Easter pageants.

At the same time, those in churches look askance
at us because we love and observe the festivals.
They call them the "Jewish feasts," when our God
calls them His.

We are called Judaizers, but admittedly, some
call you Greekizers, Romanizers, and other choice
names.

Be back

 

Abiyah, apparently, I would join the Roman Catholic Church before joining a Messianic Christian group, if this is your honest view.

After all it is only Jesus birth; who cares. And Easter is only the day of our Savior's resurrection; no big deal!

Are you worshipping the Torah and the scrolls or Jesus Christ?

 

Continuing with my previous post, I also know that
both Christians and "Messianics" are going to have
to get over a lot of their centuries-old prejudices
-- Christians against those who wish to follow the
Lord according to the dictates of the whole Bible
and not just the "New Testament."

As for "Messianic" prejudices, there are false and
errant doctrines among these groups, too. Some
groups are so prejudiced as to limit non-Jew
participation in their groups, and some go so far
as to have signs on their doors which read, "Jews
Only." Lunacy! Where does this show the
breaking down of "wall of partition"?

I also happen to know that some people choose
a Messianic lifestyle simply because they enjoy
being different, or enjoy making waves. Until
these stop playing synagogue, nothing of eternal
value will come of them.

There is also as much false doctrine among some
Messianics a there is among churches. Period.

Unfortunately, until Messiah comes and straightens
out the mess we have made of His legacy, we will
never come together, in my opinion.

 

Yelsew --

Actually, we have a particular time during which we
celebrate Messiah's birth -- Sukkot, what you may
call the Feast of Tabernacles. It is an eight-day-
long observance. During that time, we eat and
relax in a "booth" or temporary shed we build for
that purpose in the back yard. We have guests
over, eat special foods, and, in general, enjoy the
privileges of His provision with others, looking
forward to an eternity of doing this in His
presence.

The "booths" are built so that when we look up,
we can clearly see the sky through the roof. This
is to keep us in mind of eternity with Him and of
an eternal rest, when friends and family will be
enjoyed to the fullest.

These holy days were chosen to celebrate
Messiah's birth because historically, we believe
this was possibly when He was born. Although
we do not normally exchange gifts, we enjoy the
gifts of friendship and love of one another in His
honor. It is a precious time.

 

Ray! My friend! We have "talked" before! I thought
you would know my answer to this question!

But since you asked, I would return the favor and
ask you: are you worshiping your holidays or
the Lord? Everyone here knows I could go on,
knows the criticisms I could make of those
holidays, but I will not, because it would make
little difference, and because I am not here to
cause division. Also, this thread is about the
dissolution of division.

Ray, have you ever read that I worship scrolls?
I did not say that, and I do not. However,
Torah is our God's instruction. I do believe that
we are to take that very seriously and to follow His
instructions the best we can.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Yelsew --

I forgot to mention:

I have no personal regard whatsoever to what is
commonly called "Judaism" for Judaism's sake.
I do not attend the ordinary synagogues, and
we are heavily criticized by them for our beliefs.,
just as much as thechurch criticizes us. What I do
regard is what the Bible says, how it tells us to
worship and live, etc. In observing these, yes, I do
love and serve the Messiah -- Y'shua-Jesus. He
is my life, not Judaism.

 

Thank you, Jim, for your very kind post. You bring
up some important points.

One of these is that some in the church teach and
observe some of the mitzvot without either
knowing or acknowledging this, and while it is
fortunate that while these churches faithfully
teach following some of Torah, it is unfortunate
that they, at the same time, instruct so strongly
against Torah -- God's instruction!!

Just considering some of the 613: </font>

• have no other gods</font>
• make no images for the purpose of
  worship</font>
• don't give your children to Moloch
  (although some churches believe in
  abortion)</font>
• do not practice witchcraft</font>
• do not blaspheme the Holy Name</font>

I think most Christians have no problem with most
Mitzvot, because indeed, as part of the first fruit
of the new covenant, their hearts and minds have
been changed. Unfortunately, they are not being
taught the whole council of our God when part of
His council is so vehemently neglected.

At the same time, however, some "Messianics"
neglect the Apostolic Scriptures to a great fault.
Some have gone so far as to say that Y'shua is
Messiah but not divine!! Both "sides" have some
great repenting and relearning to do.

However, this is the season of reflection, of
introspection, and of repentance. May we all
join in this, seeking our God for those changes
in ourselves to make us more of what He wants
in us.

 

As a "Christian" from a gentile background I still
feel close to anyone who has embraced CHRIST as
their personal Savior. I support FRIENDS OF
ISRAEL and receive ISRAEL MY GLORY.

I personally feel that the role of the Messanic
Jewish person is to be a witness to those Jews
who are not saved. He is in a special place of
understanding and comraderie that most Christians
could only wish for.

I have no problems being with fellow "Christians"
and those of a Jewish background are brothers
and sisters in Christ who makes that bond.

 

Jim --

While I agree that it is, indeed, human tradition that
is partly to blame for keeping us apart, I must say
that I believe that it is more: I believe that it is the
unwillingness of Christians (meaning believers
who are not "Messianic") to: </font>

• Accept that the whole Bible remains
  relevant</font>
• Accept that the feasts are not "Jewish
  feasts" but God's feasts (as stated in the
  Torah)</font>
• Understand that their observance is not
  tedium but joy, celebration, and privilege
  which teach deep truths to generations</font>
• Realize that their teaching has come
  down through centuries of anti-Jew
  concepts which have heavily influenced
  their understading and teaching of the
  Bible.</font>

At the same time, in Torah communities, we
have our own similar faults: </font>

• There are those who either insiste
  on conforming with extra-biblical
  traditions or, at least, lok down on
  those who do notconform with them</font>
• There are those who are over-
  zealous for these traditiions</font>
• etc.</font>