ituttut:
When you refer to what Jesus taught on earth, you need to recognize He thought of His coming on a Day that includes the signs of Seal 6 and the Hour of the “7th Trumpet”. He revealed what happens on the Day of Wrath, i.e., a Day when signs in the sun and moon continue from “noon until the light returns at twilight”! Amos 8:9; Zech.14:6-7.
On that Day of Wrath and at the Hour of the
“last trump, the last of seven trumpets, Jesus will be crowned at the “Hour” of its first sounding and He will do three things during the “Hour of Trial on all mankind to which no Believer is appointed”! I Thess.5:9; Rev.3:10.
You follow the traditions of men that make Jesus wait for 7 years to (1) “Judge the dead in Christ” (by including Trib-Martyrs at the 2nd sounding of the “last trump”) which also requires the Rapture of all who survive.
You claim Paul did not honor the “word of the Lord to raise up all believers on the “last day” because (2) the 2nd sound of that Trumpet is when “God also brings the souls of those that sleep in Jesus with Him”.
Jesus will “gather the elect from earth to heaven and bring both the souls of the dead in Christ AND His rewards with Him for every believer on that same last day”. John 6:38-40; Mark 13:27; Matt.16:27; Rev.11:18; Rev.22:12.
What you are missing is the "instant of time" during which, at THE SIGN of His coming and Presence, while the tribes of earth begin to mourn, and at the 3rd sound of the 7th Trumpet, “a great sound”, Jesus will (3)
“Send His angels to complete the gathering of the elect and to fulfill the “Resurrection and Rewards” of Rev.11:18.
Then He “destroys the destroyers of earth on the same Day He comes as a thief and during the Hour of Trial coming on all the inhabitants of earth at His Presence”. Luke 21:34-36; I Thess.5:2-3.
He does this while the Jews “beg to escape and prevail to stand before the Son of Man”. All who prevail are “kept alive”. Rev.16:15; Matt.24:30-31; I Thess.5:2-3; Luke 21:34-36; Luke 17:33.
Paul and Revelation require for all believers ON THAT DAY what you claim applies only to the Jews! John was told that “no one can enter the Temple in heaven to hear the 7th Trumpet sound until the last Plague empties in the air.
That’s why, before Seal 7 opens on the Last Day, the elder identifies the Martyrs coming from under the Altar for the first time and entering the open Temple for the Court of Seal 7. Here you must see that Rev.7:9-Rev.8:5 occurs just before the Temple "was open" for Rev.11:15-19.
"No one can enter the Temple until the last of
the seven Plagues empties and the smoke of God's
glory and power clears the Temple"! Rev.15:1,8.
Then the “Temple was open" for the 1st sounding of the 7th Trumpet’s Coronation of Christ as the kingdoms of this world have become His Kingdom!
Who is confused? You wrote the following:
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Paul does not want them to be ignorant, so he explained to them the "rapture", but they forgot, or believe those that deceive, for he
has to tell them again they won't go thru the tribulation. In II Thess.1:7 he tells the confused one's, those troubled and not
understanding, WHEN Jesus does come with His mighty angels, we will be at rest when this happens”.
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Here is your “confusion” because it was your response to what Jesus and Paul taught, i.e., that “God will bring the souls of all the
dead in Christ WHEN Jesus comes with His mighty angels. NOT seven years before He comes “as a thief” at Armageddon. But while the angels are gathering the elect and the tribes of earth
continue to “beg to stand before the Son of Man”. Rev.16:15; I Thess.5:2-3; Luke 21:34-36.
In quoting 2 Thess.1:7-10 above your confusion cries out for correction under the delusion that 7 years separate the gathering and the timely
“deliverance from tribulation for ALL who believe ON THE DAY Christ comes with His mighty angels”!!!!
Your confusion jumps out again at me in your response to this quote:
My quote:
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For you to claim God's wrath begins "before" the
7th Trumpet sounds completely ignores that
"God's wrath is not announced from heaven as having come" until the 7th Trumpet sounds. Rev.11:15-18.
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Your response:
The "rapture" is not in "prophecy" which Revelation is. When we get to Revelation we can find no such "resurrection" for there is only one such, and it is only found before anti-christ becomes known.
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Evidently you have determined to exclude all the dead rising up at the “first resurrection” of Rev.20:5.
Again:
Your quote:
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The book of Revelation is for the people of Daniel and not we today. The book is for those who believe in the Hebrew church of believing only what Jesus taught while here in the flesh, coming as their King, or those of the "Kingdom Church". The Tribulation is foretold For Them.
All churches are said to be in Asia. Not one is in the USA. Paul tells us all in Asia had left his teaching. Evidently when John was told to write this book, there was not a "Body Church" in Asia, and there will not be one there or anywhere else in the tribulation.
Mel, why do you continue to doubt Scripture: "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come." How can you say we go into tribulation, when we are already delivered from it?
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Your basic premise assumes that “waiting for the Son from heaven” is only for a Pre-Tribulation Church and that only they are “delivered from God’s wrath”!! Nobody, saved or unsaved, pre-trib or pre-second coming, dies from God’s wrath!
His wrath is limited to the Day Christ appears!!
You falsely assume we are delivered from the so-called tribulation of seven years which is never called “a day of wrath”. You assume no “Body of Christ Church existed in Asia because Paul said they had left his teaching”.
Your whole scheme presents two gospels, two ways
of salvation and two resurrections of believers by dening the “rapture and resurrection” occur in Revelation. Your most shameful denial of
God’s truth is that “The book of Revelation is for the people of Daniel and not we today”
No wonder you stated “we don’t know what
happens at the 7th Trumpet”! The gathering of the saints from earth to heaven and the Resurrection of all believers (John 6:38-40; which you deny) and the destruction of the Armageddon soldiers occur on the same Last DAY and same Last TRUMP!
Seals 6 and 7 occur after the last Plague “exhausts God’s anger (thumos). God’s wrath (orgay) occurs on a DAY “after the great tribulation” and after the 7th Trumpet sounds 3 times. It sounds 1st for Christ’s Coronation as the “time for God’s wrath has come; 2nd for Jesus to “raise up all believers on the last day and 3rd for the angels, at the sound of a great trumpet, to complete the gathering out of all extremities of the heavenS”. John 6:38-40; Mark 13:27; Matt.24:31.
You have refused to accept the new truth Paul taught, i.e., that the “dead in Christ arise first” at the (2nd) sounding of the last
trump. For Paul honored the “word of the Lord that God will bring the souls of all whom Jesus raises up (including martyrs out of the great tribulation) on the last day”. Like Paul, I accept the “word of the Lord”!
Mel Miller
www.lastday.net
