By grace and grace alone

Dear Forum Members --

I am currently reading Christian Perfection and Contemplation According to St. Thomas Aquinas and St. John of the Cross by Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P. (Published by TAN Books 2003, reprint of first edition printing 1937 - Nihil Obstat F.J. Holweck - Censor Librorum Imprimatur Bishop John J. Glennon)

In article III, on page 92, I quote the following:

We now come to the foundation of the loftiest mystical theology, that of St. Paul, St. Augustine, Dionysius, St. Bernard, St. Thomas, Tauler, Ruysbroeck, the author of the Imitation and St. John of the Cross. In the work of salvation, all comes from God, even our co-operation. We cannot glory in contributing a single part, however small, that would be exclusively ours. Man of himself is sufficient for evil; but for good, he can do absolutely nothing without the natural or supernatural help of God. On the other hand, with God and through Him he can achieve the greatest of actions; he can co-operate in the salvation of souls, each of which is of more value than the entire material universe; he can make acts of charity, the least of which has greater value than all angelic natures taken together.

Click to expand...

Further on, in article IV we find the following:

St. Thomas, following St. Augustine and opposing Pelagian or semi-Pelagian naturalism, grasped the depth and the height of our Lord's words: "Without me you can do nothing," and of St. Paul's words: "For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to His good will." "For who distinguisheth thee? Or what hast thous that thou hast not recieved?" In the work of salvation we cannot distinguish any part that is exlusively ours; all comes from God, even our free co-operation, which efficacious grace gently and mightily stirs up in us and confirms.

The grace, which is always followed by its effect, is refused to us, as we said, only if we resist the divine, auxilium praeveniens, sufficient grace, in which the efficacious help is already offered us, as fruit is in the flower. If we destroy the flower, we shall never see the fruit, which the influence of the sun and of the nuourishment of the earth would have produced. Now man is sufficient to himself to fall; drawn from nothingness, he is by nature defectible. He is sufficiently assisted by God so that he falls only through his own fault, which thus deprives him of a new help. This is the great mystery of grace.

Click to expand...

And further on pages 96 & 97 of same article:

This doctrine leads first of all to profound humility. According to this doctrine man has as his won, as something coming exclusively from himself only his sin as the Council of Orange declared. He never performs any natural good act without the natural aid of God, or any supernatural good act without a grace which solicits or attracts him, and also efficaciously moves him to the salutary act. As. St. Paul says: "Not that we are sufficient to think anything of ourselves as of ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God."

Click to expand...

Futher on in article three, on pages 101 and 102, it is written:

This doctrine of the powerful efficacy of grace leads finally to great heights in the practice of the theological virtues. This it does because it is intimately bound up with the sublime mystery of predestination, the grandeur of which it fully preserves. St. Paul, in the Epistle to the Romans, tells us: "And we know that to them that love God, all things work together unto good, to such as, according to His purpose, are called to be saints. For whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of His Son; that He might be the first-born among many brethren. And whom He predestinated, them He also called. And who He called, them He also justified. And whom He justified, them He also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who is against us?" St. Paul teaches the same doctrine in the Epistle to the Ephsians.

St. Augustine and St. Thomas haev explained these words of St. Paul without lessening their real meaning. Bossuet, their disciple, sums them up with us usual good mastery by saying:

I do not deny the goodness of God toward all men, or the means which in His general providence He offers them for their eternal salvation. The Lord does not will that any should perish, but that all shoudl return to penance. But however great His designs may be on everyone, He fixes a certain particular gaze of preference on a number that is known to Him. All those on whom He gazes in this way, weep for their sins and are converted in their time. That is why Peter burst into tears when our Lord looked at him benignly....

Click to expand...

There is so much more, but a few choice quotes serve my purpose. I offer this with Nil Obstat and Imprimtur showing that this is teaching in line with and not contradictory to orthodox Catholic teaching to show that there is the teaching of grace in the Catholic faith, and indeed, such grace that we, sinful humans that we are, have nothing in and of ourselves which may either merit that grace or obtain salvation on our own

From beginning to end, it is the work of God. Yet, because we know that man must choose to co-operate with God, we are accused of somehow sabotaging grace and taking a heretical Pelegian stand in which we would somehow attribute our salvation and the gaining of eternal life as being that which we, by ourselves, have done.

It is by grace that God became man, for He was under no legal obligation to do so. It was grace which bore Him to the Cross and procured His death for all mankind. It was grace which sent and continues to send the Holy Spirit to the earth to call to sinners and woo them. It is grace which makes the sinner respond and grace which makes the saint obey. Without grace, without God's timely and purposeful intervention, nothing can happen in me that would make me look to Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Regardless of whatever response I will get to this post, let me again say that my obedience (or "covenant keeping", as I have called it) is only a response to His prevenient grace in this issue. It is He Who has chosen to motivate me to obey, but He awaits my response in obedience to His calling. That does not make me the author of my obedience.

I have offered this post because I have not sufficiently and clearly made my position on this matter known. Somehow, in my feeble attempts to speak on behalf of God's covenant, I have made it sound, according to my critics, that I am trusting in my own efforts, apart from God's gracious intervention, to obtain for me eternal life. May God FORBID that even one atom of my being or will should rest upon my merits exclusive of Christ within working His good pleasure through me!!!!

I have been so blessed in reading this book. It reminded me that my repentance and return to Christ some 30+ years ago, was nothing of my doing. I was only interested in sin and "having my cake and eating it too". If Jesus could give me peace and not disturb my life, well, great!!

But He had far more than that for me, for He was not interested in allowing me to continue in my bondage to sin. And through the years that mysterious grace has continued to gently call me and nudge me towards Him and away from those things which are natural to me as a fallen human being.

And in the end, as all bend the knee and proclaim Christ to be both Lord and God to the glory of the Father, all will acknowledge before Him that by and through Him alone, through the action of mysterious grace, did we obtain eternal bliss.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed

[ October 25, 2003, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: CatholicConvert ]

Beautiful, Brother Ed!

I also recommend Reginald the Rigid's Predestination, also published by Thomas A. Nelson.

Carson Weber & Catholic Convert,

Five point Calvinists and someone like me who believes in the absolute security of the Christian as to his promised hope of eternal life, smiles when they see your clear self-deception.

Your Catholic view in our day, is heavily weighted in Semi-Pelagianism. Grace is given by the Lord but then you must keep up on your 'works' in a myriad of colors and shapes. "Make sure you make your Easter Communion;" like that would impress him of your one holy day of obligation. A love for the Lord and a genuine faith in Him should insure more of a faithfulness to Him in the life of the church. Your system of gathering merit to protect your soul is not an 'all of grace concept.' It is faith plus works like you so readily like to point out with your Book of James.

James, the half-brother of our Lord, merely wanted us to see that if our faith is genuine, then we will have good works as a result of justification by faith. {Romans 5:1} But, Roman Catholics like to make their ultimate salvation dependent on human 'good works.' Therein is the Pelagian error.

Your church father's try to portray justification by faith through Christ's grace, but bottom line is they fail miserably because of Roman Catholic teaching and their merit system, as do some Arminian, Protestant Churches.

I am only about a third through the book and am already blessed immensely. No doubt this one is a "multi-read" publication for my bookshelves.

I do hope our Protestant friends appreciate rather than take issue with our love of God's grace in our lives. Despite the bad definitions of it, by both myself and many Catholics I have met, it is the defining point of God's work in mankind.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed


Just a second or two before I hit my post button, the post from Ray must have popped on the screen.

Isn't it strange that no matter how much I fall on my knees and tell God that I am dependant upon Him alone, no matter how much I tell others that I am hoping in the grace of God, and no matter how much I try to refine the errors out of my view so that I can be totally dependent upon God for everything, there is always someone looking over my shoulder telling me what I am thinking rather than accepting my words at face value.

That kind of mind reading is amazing, Ray. Would you care to help me choose some Pennsylvania Powerball numbers for tonight's drawing?

*sigh*

Grace alone is nothing new for the Roman Catholic Church. Faith alone would be something new. Or, rather, it would be returning to something old.

Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.
Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification between the Catholic Church and the Lutheran World Federation

Originally posted by CatholicConvert:
Isn't it strange that no matter how much I fall on my knees and tell God that I am dependant upon Him alone, no matter how much I tell others that I am hoping in the grace of God, and no matter how much I try to refine the errors out of my view so that I can be totally dependent upon God for everything, there is always someone looking over my shoulder telling me what I am thinking rather than accepting my words at face value.

Click to expand...

What an interesting thread!

Bro. Ed, thank you for your testimony!

For some, it is apparently "flawed" simply because it comes from the pen of a Catholic!

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+

Not riches, but God.
Not honors, but God.
Not distinction, but God.
Not dignities, but God.
Not advancement, but God.
God always and in everything.

- St. Vincent Pallotti -

Faith alone

It's the alone part that grace has a problem with, John. When you take the fiduciary trust in Christ's atonement and place an artificial, forced barrier between this trust and the filial obedience of the Christian (Romans 1:5; 16:26), you're separating what ought not be separated.

If our justification is our sonship, and if grace makes us sons - not merely declaring us as sons - then we grow in the justification received at baptism as we are conformed to the image of Jesus Christ because we are further immersed with the life and love of the only Son of God.

Originally posted by Carson Weber:
Faith alone

It's the alone part that grace has a problem with, John. When you take the fiduciary trust in Christ's atonement and place an artificial, forced barrier between this trust and the filial obedience of the Christian (Romans 1:5; 16:26), you're separating what ought not be separated.

If our justification is our sonship, and if grace makes us sons - not merely declaring us as sons - then we grow in the justification received at baptism as we are conformed to the image of Jesus Christ because we are further immersed with the life and love of the only Son of God.

Click to expand...

Faith is never alone because it bares the fruit of filial obedience. Grace is never alone because it comes to us through Word and Sacrament.

Originally posted by John Gilmore:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Carson Weber:
Faith alone

It's the alone part that grace has a problem with, John. When you take the fiduciary trust in Christ's atonement and place an artificial, forced barrier between this trust and the filial obedience of the Christian (Romans 1:5; 16:26), you're separating what ought not be separated.

If our justification is our sonship, and if grace makes us sons - not merely declaring us as sons - then we grow in the justification received at baptism as we are conformed to the image of Jesus Christ because we are further immersed with the life and love of the only Son of God.

Click to expand...

Faith is never alone because it bares the fruit of filial obedience. Grace is never alone because it comes to us through Word and Sacrament. </font>[/QUOTE]Sacrament? Which one? Or two? Or more?

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+


Christus Vincit! Christus Regnat! Christus Imperat!

Faith is never alone

If faith is never alone, then why are you advocating faith alone?

With the exception of Paul, who was recruited in a manner completely inconsistant with all other conversions in scripture, has there been even one human who has been saved under God's grace that did not have faith? Even one? How about just one?

Time's up! NO, there has never been a single human being saved who was not saved because of Faith and nothing else...while God's grace prevailed.

Keep in mind, that the Grace of God has been present with man from the very first man. So if it is grace that saves, virtually every human who ever lived is saved because all have had the Grace of God in their lives. The same cannot be said for faith. However, every man that ever lived who has had faith has been saved!

So, then it comes back to "how does one get faith?

Faith cometh by hearing (a human faculty) and hearing by the word of God (that which God provides to persuade man into faith). Where does faith "come" from? Faith is the only thing that human's have that God does not! It comes from within man, it is not superimposed into man by God, but rather it comes from within man due to man's acceptance of God's word. The more of God's word you have in you, the greater will be your faith in God.

"By Grace and Grace alone"? BIG MYTH! Other than perhaps Paul, NNE can name a single person who, lacking faith, was saved by "grace alone".

Ephesians 2:8,9 is always interpreted wrong because many people in 'high places', many who are stupid beyond comprehension, and who have no greater ability to interpret scripture than average Joe Bloe, claim that the gift of God is grace. That claim couldn't be further from the truth! The truth is that Salvation is the Gift of God, given to ALL who God has shown unmerited favor toward, but only to those who have responded in faith. Salvation through faith in God while grace prevails. Believe it or not!

By the way, Grace is not a commodity that God hands out like candy! It is something that has been and remains true of God, an Attribute of God.

Faith is not something that God has, so
God cannot give faith to anyone, but he can persuade man to believe in Him making God the object of faith.

Salvation is the only thing that God can give to man, and he does so to those who believe.

Originally posted by Yelsew:
Other than perhaps Paul, NNE can name a single person who...was saved by "grace alone".

Click to expand...

Wrong, Yelsew. Anyone who is saved is saved by grace alone for without God's grace NNE can be saved. Period.

Furthermore, if we are not saved by grace alone, then you are inserting works into the salvation plan of God, and you are extremely in error to do so. And you are saying that God's efforts on man's behalf are not sufficient for salvation, again showing you to be in error.

Originally posted by Carson Weber:
Faith alone

It's the alone part that grace has a problem with, John. When you take the fiduciary trust in Christ's atonement and place an artificial, forced barrier between this trust and the filial obedience of the Christian (Romans 1:5; 16:26), you're separating what ought not be separated.

If our justification is our sonship, and if grace makes us sons - not merely declaring us as sons - then we grow in the justification received at baptism as we are conformed to the image of Jesus Christ because we are further immersed with the life and love of the only Son of God.

Click to expand...

Carson, there is but one ingredient, that if missing, results in NO man being saved. And that one singular, individually identifiable ingredient is FAITH. FAITH alone determines whether or not one is saved. Therefore it is Faith alone that saves.

Originally posted by KenH:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Yelsew:
Other than perhaps Paul, NNE can name a single person who...was saved by "grace alone".

Click to expand...

Wrong, Yelsew. Anyone who is saved is saved by grace alone for without God's grace NNE can be saved. Period.

Furthermore, if we are not saved by grace alone, then you are inserting works into the salvation plan of God, and you are extremely in error to do so. And you are saying that God's efforts on man's behalf are not sufficient for salvation, again showing you to be in error. </font>[/QUOTE]Why don't you prove me wrong? If I am wrong it should not be difficult for one who knows the truth to do.

Name me one person who was saved by grace alone. or grace plus anything...except faith. If you can proved that person is saved, then you may have something by which to prove me wrong...But you cannot!

Ken, Who are you to declare that FAITH is a work? Where in scripture is FAITH declared to be a work?

It requires not even one ERG of energy, which is a measure of work, to have faith. Faith requires No effort on man's part, you either have it or you don't.

It sure irks you that God did not work his plan in accordance with what you are willing to believe.

Originally posted by Carson Weber:
Faith is never alone

If faith is never alone, then why are you advocating faith alone?

Click to expand...

Faith clings to Jesus' cross alone
And rests in Him unceasing;
And by its fruits true faith is known,
With love and hope increasing.
Yet faith alone doth justify,
Works serve thy neighbor and supply
The proof that faith is living.
Salvation Unto Us Has Come, Paul Speratus, 1523

Originally posted by Yelsew:
Faith is the only thing that human's have that God does not! It comes from within man, it is not superimposed into man by God, but rather it comes from within man due to man's acceptance of God's word. The more of God's word you have in you, the greater will be your faith in God.


Faith is not something that God has, so
God cannot give faith to anyone, but he can persuade man to believe in Him making God the object of faith.

Click to expand...

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Salvation is the only thing that God can give to man, and he does so to those who believe.

Click to expand...

There is nothing that you have or ever will have that was not given to you by God.

Trying2understand,

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Click to expand...

BUT, the very least we "MUST DO" is rightly think about God, and about man the way God created him to be. We must reason in the truth, about the truth! We must never think of ourselves as anything but the created.

There is nothing that you have or ever will have that was not given to you by God.

Click to expand...

Granted, we are the created not the creator! 'nuff said!

Interesting discussion. In the book I am currently reading the author made a interesting observation that at least I, personally, have overlooked. It is clear from Eph. 2:8 that we are saved by or because of grace and grace alone. Now for some reason I always read the rest of the verse like faith and works were the two things being contrasted. However, when the author wrote about it, it became clear to me (and maybe I am just slow or have not used my brain much) that it is grace and works that are being contrasted. Mere works are not the means of God's grace. It is faith, true faith, not just some mental exercise. True faith ALWAYS shows itself through works. It was like a lightbulb went off for me. Faith and works are not competing ideas, but rather intimately connected. You can have works without faith, but it is impossible to have true faith without works. Thus James says, "So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead." (James 2:17, RSV)

And this whole notion of faith alone is beginning to disturb me a bit. I have always accepted it, but looking at Scripture, I see no support for it. Over and over Christ talks about what people do. And the only "faith alone" I have seen so far (if you know of other passages, please, share with me) is James 2:24 (RSV): "You see that a man is justified by works and not faith alone." Do works alone justify? No. Does faith alone justify? No. But faith with works seems to do the job. To my finite, fallible mind, it definitely does not appear to me that James is referring to works alone, but seems to be assuming faith when he makes this statement in verse 24. It appears clear to me from the whole chapter that it is faith + works, not faith only, nor works only. Now, the book of James no longer seems to be a thorn in my side or a problem, but refreshing and invigorating. Faith in the Scriptures is a real, live, tangible thing that is active in our daily lives!

Just some thoughts that needed to be sorted through, tweeked, enlightened, etc.

In Christ,
Neal

There is no conflict between Paul and James. We are saved through faith alone not works. But faith must produce good works or it is dead.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Eph. 2:8-10

There is no conflict between Paul and James. We are saved through faith alone not works. But faith must produce good works or it is dead.

Click to expand...

I never said there was a conflict. However, where does it ever say "faith alone" in Scripture the way you are using it? Another thing, is it really faith alone? Isn't faith alone dead? Does dead faith do any good? Really, think of what you are saying. You say faith alone, but then you put a disclaimer on it. If we had no works that lined up with faith, would that be effective enough to mediate salvation to someone?

In Christ,
Neal