By grace and grace alone

[CatholicConvert]

One does not have to be a believer for God to cover him with His GRACE. Every human who ever lived, is living, or will live, does so while God's grace prevails. ALL are covered by God's Grace. God's grace is an attribute of God that according to God's will constrains God's behavior toward mankind. GRACE is not a commodity that God passes out like candy, or selectively gives to individuals.

Oh, I AGREE with you!! This is EXACTLY the mercy and love of our great God. He so loves the world that He is kind and gracious to the worst of sinners. Grace is not limited to believers only. Any kindness of God to any man is grace given.

Salvation is receiving Eternal life through FAITH in God!

Okay...let me agree with you partially. Salvation is indeed receiving the seed of eternal life through faith in God. The way I put it made it sound like salvation was tied to the works we do. Receiving the seed of eternal life WITHOUT ANY WORKS ON OUR PART is the beginning and is of grace alone.

FAITH IS NOT A WORK that man can do! The Work of the Father is that you have faith in his son. It is the father's work that we have faith, that is, the father did all the work so that we can have faith.

I think I agree with what you are saying. That sounds kinda like what I posted in the beginning post -- i.e., that even our faith is a gift of God's grace. In short, as I said before, EVERYTHING in salvation from beginning to end is of His grace.

Jesus death on the cross is for the atonement of ALL sin. There is no need to die in one's sins.

Most certainly. One death for the sins of the whole world. But not just one application at the time you "accept Jesus". That is where Protestant theology breaks the covenantal mold. The sacrifice must be applied to my soul for its cleansing every time I fall into sin. When I break the covenant, I must restore it by an act of repentance, confession of sin, and the renewal of my covenantal vows. In covenant, this taking of vows was most oftenly associated with the "covenantal meal." You can see this in the historic Suzerainity covenants of the OT.

The Eucharist is that covenantal meal of renewal and restoration of fellowship.

Brother Ed

 

[Yelsew]

CatholicConvert,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Salvation is receiving Eternal life through FAITH in God!

Okay...let me agree with you partially. Salvation is indeed receiving the seed of eternal life through faith in God. The way I put it made it sound like salvation was tied to the works we do. Receiving the seed of eternal life WITHOUT ANY WORKS ON OUR PART is the beginning and is of grace alone.</font>[/QUOTE]You certainly have difficulty with Grace don't you?

By what you post, it is clear that you do not understand that Grace is an Attribute of the one possessing it. Grace is not a commodity that one being (entity) can transfer to another as in the giving of a gift. It is rather a behavioral characterist that one exibits to others. God's grace is the manner in which he relates to his creation. It is a characteristic that is influenced by his other attributes of Love, mercy, Justice, etc.

Faith is what God looks for in his creation, those possessing faith get saved, those who do not have faith do not get saved, but rather get judged and then cast into the lake of fire.

God does not look for His Grace in others, but only for faith in Him and his Son, Jesus.

Yes, it is a gracious act on the part of God to save those who have faith in Him, but it is faith that cause one to be saved and lack of faith that keeps another from being saved.

 

[Sularis]

Yelsew, I would again disagree with you as to the nature of grace

Lets look at all the meanings of grace
1. Seemingly effortless beauty or charm of movement, form, or proportion.
2. A characteristic or quality pleasing for its charm or refinement.
3. A sense of fitness or propriety.
4. a) A disposition to be generous or helpful; goodwill.
b) Mercy; clemency.
5. A favor rendered by one who need not do so; indulgence.
6. A temporary immunity or exemption; a reprieve.
7. Graces Greek & Roman Mythology. Three sister goddesses, known in Greek mythology as Aglaia, Euphrosyne, and Thalia, who dispense charm and beauty.
8. a) Divine love and protection bestowed freely on people.
b) The state of being protected or sanctified by the favor of God.
c) An excellence or power granted by God.

Each of the following verses deal with the finding of the grace of God - ie His favour - His mercy - His love - His protectionGenesis 6:8 - Genesis 19:19 - Genesis 32:5 - Genesis 33:8 - Genesis 33:10 - Genesis 33:15 - Genesis 34:11 - Genesis 39:4 - Genesis 47:25 - Genesis 47:29 - Genesis 50:4 - Exodus 33:12 -
Exodus 33:13 - Exodus 33:16 - Exodus 33:17 - Exodus 34:9 - Numbers 32:5 - Judges 6:17 - Ruth 2:2 - Ruth 2:10 - 1 Samuel 1:18 - 1 Samuel 20:3 - 1 Samuel 27:5 - 2 Samuel 14:22 - 2 Samuel 16:4 -

(I started to get lazy here as its now 2:18 in the morning and I have work tomorrow)

Grace being shown by God
Ezra 9:8

Grace being given by God and other people
Esther 2:17 - Psalms 45:2 - Psalms 84:11

Grace as ornementation
Proverbs 1:9 - Proverbs 3:22


I admit I should have done this using NEW testament but since the word is charis and it used over a 100 times rough count - Im getting tired, and the dictionary claims it is used with around at least 7 different meanings
Grace CAN be transferred - as can righteousness - it IS a commodity not only a characteristic - both things are so precious and so rare that it is only in the purest form found in God, but as we as flawed Christians struggle with the aid of the Holy Spirit, that precious characteristic becomes ours, as we grow in Love - Everything ties into the Love of God - we will never personally be able to dispense the ultimate grace which Christ does and did for us; we are expected to show His love to those who are unworthy of it.