Crucifixion and the days of the week

Alcott,

Actually there is no dilemma because Jesus made it QUITE clear that it is LAWFUL to do GOOD on the Sabbath.

We do not take pay for the time spent on the Sabbath doing these vocations that are 'good', (meaning helping others) because THEN it would be 'doing our own' work on the Sabbath, which is ALSO part of how we observe it.

Do you consider washing your self and putting on clothes exertion? Would you consider that work?

The Pharasees thought the way that you are about the Sabbath and it is WHAT Jesus fixed about the Sabbath when He came.

He returned it to how God intended it. As a Joy.

God Bless

 

As Christ said - the Priests get PAID for doing WORK on Sabbath and "yet are WITHOUT sin". Matt 12:5 It is not a transgression of the Sabbath for them to do that.

Trying to get Christ to "fail" by arguing that the ONLY issue for the Sabbath pre-cross was "IS IT WORK" - does not stand the test of Matt 12:5.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Is it? I thought you were under grace....
The 'doing good' on the Sabbath that Jesus was speaking about was HEALING. That is what doctors, nurses, fire and police DO. In one form or another they are either protecting life or helping it to heal. THOSE vocations REQUIRE that you have a JOB at the place of service. Those people who serve others ON THE SABBATH do so out of compassion and desire to help. It WOULD BE work if they got paid. This isn't a difficult concept.

This is a rediculous question. Do you think that PAUL was fed and housed and clothed by the church??? What of the Apostles? Do you think they STOPPED preaching on the Sabbath even though they had a common support of one another and the 'work' that they did was as a minister of the Gospel? Paul lived off of goods given to him by the Church. He preached on the Sabbath. Ask him.

So did the Pharisees.

You do not need to believe in Sabbath observance to approach it with a Pharisaical attitude! You are approaching it with everything you can muster out of your 'idiocratic question' bag, making light of the people who cherish it and mocking the God who created it. Just like the Pharisees!

NOPE that was NOT how God intended it. The Law was ADDED because of TRANSGRESSION. If Israel would have kept the Sabbath and Hallowed it the way that God told them BEFORE SINAI, He would not have had to give them all those regulations.

They were stupid.

I didn't answer your question because it is a 'doubtful disputation'. I don't know of anyone who questions the international date line. You are the first that has ever done so in my view.

I know someone who celebrated it twice in a row because he flew over somewhere, Australia I think, and when he left where he was, Hawaii I think, it was the Sabbath and when he got to Australia it was the Sabbath again! He was HAPPY to celebrate it twice.

That is what you don't seem to get. We do not keep the Sabbath out of obligation, just like we do not give to God of our increase out of obligation. We do it out of a sincere desire to please God and to spend time with Him, One on one, without any distractions for a WHOLE day.

The Seventh Day.

God Bless

 

...THOSE vocations REQUIRE that you have a JOB at the place of service. Those people who serve others ON THE SABBATH do so out of compassion and desire to help. It WOULD BE work if they got paid. This isn't a difficult concept.

It is WORK no matter whether they are paid, they are not paid, or if they themselves pay to do it.

Do you think that PAUL was fed and housed and clothed by the church???

Certainly not by all of them (I Corinthians 9).

What of the Apostles? Do you think they STOPPED preaching on the Sabbath even though they had a common support of one another and the 'work' that they did was as a minister of the Gospel? Paul lived off of goods given to him by the Church. He preached on the Sabbath. Ask him.

That paragraph graded a B until you said "Ask him." He does not happen to be here to ask.

So did the Pharisees.

That does not follow.

You do not need to believe in Sabbath observance to approach it with a Pharisaical attitude! You are approaching it with everything you can muster out of your 'idiocratic question' bag, making light of the people who cherish it and mocking the God who created it. Just like the Pharisees!

If this is "mocking the God who created it," so is claiming it is required of NT Christians by flipping off Romans 14:5 and Colossians 2:16, for it is the same God who changed His requirements to no longer having to stone a man for gathering wood on the 7th day to allowing us to be convinced in our own minds about regarding one day above another or every day alike.

If Israel would have kept the Sabbath and Hallowed it the way that God told them BEFORE SINAI, He would not have had to give them all those regulations.

They were stupid.

I think we agree in theory here. But just to be certain, are you calling the laws God gave to Israel "stupid?"

I don't know of anyone who questions the international date line. You are the first that has ever done so in my view.

What an honor! I feel like I'm at the Oscars.

I know someone who celebrated it twice in a row because he flew over somewhere, Australia I think, and when he left where he was, Hawaii I think, it was the Sabbath and when he got to Australia it was the Sabbath again! He was HAPPY to celebrate it twice.

I guess if you don't like to work, you can cut an extra day out like that. BTW if astronauts are orbiting in spacecraft, must they cease from labor on every 7th orbit, when they see the sun 'set' over the earth? [That is how the Bible defines a day, isn't it?-- sunset to sunset.] A couple of sabbaths every day could be a wonderful blessing.

We do not keep the Sabbath out of obligation, just like we do not give to God of our increase out of obligation. We do it out of a sincere desire to please God and to spend time with Him, One on one, without any distractions for a WHOLE day.

Have at it.

 

Bob Ryan:

You quoted Luke 24:21 where it said- "This is the Third Day since these things happened" . Since that was a Sunday, your reasoning is that Saturday is the second day(since) and Friday is the third (day since) and therefore Christ must have been crucified on a Friday.

Maybe its the mathematics in me, but I want to propose another idea that I suppose nobody thought of. (In testing any theory as in mathematics, oftentimes to prove something one must approach it from multiple angles or create a hypothetical situation).

Suppose they would have said instead "this is the first day SINCE these things happened." Based on your reasoning here, that would be the equivalent to saying the SAME day. Now do you seriously think people talk that way? Even back then? If something happened TODAY in other words, I would not say (nor would they have said) "This is the first day since this happened". No, I would say, "This happened TODAY." Three days SINCE Sunday is Thursday, the same day God reckoned (according to the feast days) that Christ was laid in the tomb. On the Jewish calendar, he really died on the cross the day before since a day begins at sundown. Jesus died on Nisan 14th (Passover) He was laid in the tomb at the commencement of Nisan 15th (the High Sabbath day) and this was the FIRST day in the tomb. Three days later and 72 hours brings one to the end of Nisan 17th. As that day came to a close and Nisan 18th dawned (Sunday) he arose again.

I'll agree with you on this fact, that Jesus arose on a Sunday as it dawned--- although that is late Saturaday afternoon at sunset by our reckoning. Otherwise, in order for Jesus to be in the tomb three days and three nights in accordance with Matthew 12:40, he died on a WEDNESDAY.

 

Christ said he would be in the ground 3 days and 3 nights.

The desciples said that sunday "in the day time" was the THIRD day since the events they recounted (that started with his trial and ended with his death) had occured. If the 3rd day was Sunday - in the day time - then only a Friday crucifixion is possible. Notice also they say "And besides - today is the third day since these things happened". Luke 24:21 "These things" included his arrest and and his being turned over to the Romans by the Jews.

Sunday - in the day time - is the 3rd day. Christ declared "I will be raised up ON the 3rd day" Luke 9:22.

So when they said "TODAY is the 3rd Day" in the day time on Sunday and we note that Christ said "I will be raised ON the 3rd Day" their lament seems that much more signifcant. He was raised on Sunday AS it began to dawn - possibly just before Dawn.

In Christ,

Bob

 

BobRyan:

Well, OK. If that method of counting is OK with you. I know that to most people it is not, nor does it make any sense. I find your reasoning very difficult to follow.

I like to keep things simple and believe what Jesus said: three days and three nights. In addition, the feast days were prophetic of things to come. Regardless of the days of the week, His death was late on Nisan 14th (to fulfill the Passover) and his burial as Nisan 15th commenced (Unleavened Bread). As Paul said, these were shadows of things to come. Had both the death and burial been reckoned from the same day, then the feast types would not have been fulfilled properly. Then, he had to be in the tomb 3 full days the 15th, 16th and 17th and as the 17th ended and the 18th began (Firstfruits) he arose. Since Firstfruits was supposed to have fallen on Sunday, then just create a calendar month that places the 18th of the month on a Sunday. From there one can see what days of the week the others fall on. Simple math.

 

Actually - although he would need to be sacrificed on the 14th - nothing says they would need to wait until the 15th to bury him.

In fact the Bible account says they "stopped" the burial process short of the spices that would be needed - and left because it was the preparation day "the day Before the Sabbath". This was one of the big problems - they came back to the tomb after resting on The Sabbath day "According to the commandment" and needed someone to OPEN the grave so they could finish the burial process that was "interrupted" due to the onset of Sabbath.

The 14th of the month appears to have been the time for both the crucifixion and the burial.

In Christ,

Bob