Tongues

Singer,

I am truly and utterly disturbed by that post.

I am going to have to say that you don't seem to know the Bible at all.

You spent 30 years going to a dead place once a week (or more) and how ever many years going to a cult, and NOW you feel justified in not attending ANY church because of the bad experiences that you had.

You just ratted off several points that ARE shown is scripture, and hasten to say that there is no mention.

In your 30 years as a pew warmer did you ever actually HEAR what the Spirit says to the Churches? Because with all that talk you talk about 'feeling' the Spirit, I don't see any evidence of you HEARING Him.

It seems to me that with all the mention of HEARING in the Bible in regards to the Spirit, and SO few mentions of 'feeling' the Spirit, YOU, not us, are the one quenching the Spirit.

By your refusal to listen.

Just examining fruit.

God Bless

 

Singer, Experience cannot counterdict scripture, there is no way around that. To me it sounds like you have a real heart for those around you. Jesus came to serve and so should we. I never want to be thrown in a category where somehow study of the Bible takes the place of the "Good Works" I was created for. I love people and will take an hour of serving others over an hour of Bible study any day. I share your passion and see your point I just don't ever want to get to a point where God's very words, The Bible, are minimized or lose their authority to any degree. Thanks for your posts and your passion for Jesus.

In our Lord,
Brian

 

Thanks for clearing it up for me, but you need'nt have. Do you see the "winking smiliey" in my post? that usually means that a person is joking. Well...now you know. You misjudged me! Isn't that funny?

Laurenda

 

Don't worry about me. I'm not afriad of whatever repercussions stem from my own actions. I have never, nor will I ever, agree with someone because it's safer. Sticking to my own spiritual discernment without jumping on the "popularity bandwagon" is just how God made me. There is no honour in being a mindless go along as far as I'm concerned.

In the end I'm accountable for the choices I make, and the spirit with which I was true and honourable to God and to myself.

In Christ,
Laurenda

 

The Sabbath Commandment doesn't say 'go to church', it says 'do not work'. It isn't anything that you can do, to gain salvation, but there are things that you can do, and not do, that can be the cause of the loss of your salvation. Once saved always saved is something that is highly controvercial. You want to know why? Because there is so much scripture that is not in agreement with it.

Your beliefs have a problem with what the Bible says. The Bible always takes presidence over any thing that a person says is true. The Bible should be admonished here, OVER your own feelings.

Paul makes a very valid point about people who think as you do.

Romans 3

1. What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2. Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4. God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5. But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) [if we break the law, and God punishes us, does that make God unrighteous?]--->
6. God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? [and he answers his own question]
7. For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? [he makes mention of the 9th commandment]
8. And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. [here is your opinion, that we don't want to even TRY to be good, because that way GRACE may abound, and you see the outcome]
9. What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10. As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14. Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15. Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16. Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17. And the way of peace have they not known:
18. There is no fear of God before their eyes. [ok, he just touched on the first 4 Commandments (lack of fear) and the 9th again, and also the 6th]
19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [who is under the law? EVERY mouth, and the WHOLE world.]
20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. [NO flesh justified by the doing of the law (what part of the law justified men? Circumcision. (which is what Paul starts out talking about), the point being that by knowing the law, you can know what it is that displeases God, not that the DOING alone can save you, but through it, you know you are a sinner.]
21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [now, WITHOUT the DOING of the law there is the Righteousness of God MANEFESTED, in GRACE. It was not the doing of the law that saved the pre-Christ believers, it was their FAITH in the workings of the law that saved them. They sacrificed by faith, in the Shadow that is Christ, and God forgave their sins.]
22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [all who believed were given the righteousness of Christ, through the workings of the law. If they HAD NOT done the things written in the law, they would have been called 'children of disobedience' and would NOT have been acting in faith.]
23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. [We all sin, therefore we all need a Savior. We are JUSTIFIED by Christ, it is through FAITH (the law of faith) that we are placed in His Grace]
27. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. [so is there any place for pride here? Can we say that WE achieved grace? NO all of it is of Christ. It was HIM that they were sacrificing to, and it is HIM that payed the final sacrifice. It is by faith in Him, that He will justify us. It is ACCORDING to the LAW of Faith.]
28. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. [Justified by Christ, without having to sacrifice, and circumcize. (that is what he is talking about when he says DEEDS of the law. This isn't referring to the 10 Commandments. It is referring to WHAT used to justify the Jews. The Shadow. Now that Christ has fulfilled the 'shadow', it is no longer a valid way of justification. Only Christ can justify.]
29. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: [Now we see that Grace is for all. It is not limited to those circumcized. (that is how you became 'jewish' if you weren't born Jewish)]
30. Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [Then he separates the two, the Jews (by clip clip) are justified BY Faith, and it is the non Jew who is justified THROUGH Faith. What's the difference?]
31. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
[Those who are justified THROUGH faith ESTABLISH the law. Do you think that is talking about the clip clip and the sacrifice, or something else? Could it be the 'law of faith' in this case, considering he is talking about the non Jew?]

What is the Law of Faith? Did you know that if you are in Christ through FAITH, that you are UNDER the Law of Faith? Let's see what that is.

Read Galatians 5, and Ephesians 4, Philipians 3, 1 Timothy 6, Hebrews 11, . They sum it up pretty well.

Titus 1:16. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Hebrews 6: 9. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
10. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12. That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10: 22. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25. Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30. For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

James 2:8. If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9. But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14. What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15. If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16. And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17. Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22. Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23. And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I am not saved. I am commited to Christ, and I am IN Christ through Faith. I will not be saved until Jesus comes back. Faith without works is dead. If I say I have faith in God, and I live in sin, then I have FAILED the Grace of God, and proven myself a liar. If I say I love God, and do not obey His Commandments, I am a liar and the truth is not in me. So YES, if I say I have faith, and that it saves me, and then I live contrary to the Bible, I am really only fooling myself, for I am truly lost.

I couldn't have the same heart's commitment and call the day of the sun 'Sabbath' (that is what you mean). Worship can be done on any day. We gather because that is when no one is at work. The commanment says not to work on that day. If I STOPPED keeping the Sabbath Holy, ON PURPOSE, then YES that would condemn me, for if we sin wilfully after coming to the knowledge of the truth, there is no longer a sacrifice for our sins.

You must have a different Bible from me then. Mine says it does.

No, silly, you should keep the Sabbath because God told you to, and you love Him, and you want to obey Him, because of your faith. It isn't to GAIN salvation, you have that by Grace from God, THROUGH your faith. That, without works, is DEAD!

God doesn't agree with you. Read the Bible.

Again, you make yourself out to look rather ignorant putting forth these assumptions.

James 1:21. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24. For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26. If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

On that statement you are correct, your believing is the first step. Faith takes over.... and leads you to obedience.

So then you know that there is a reward for your actions (bad and good). You aren't as ignorant as you seem.

You want to know what it is?

Revelation 22: 11. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.


2 John 2: 5. And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
6. And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
7. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11. For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Matthew 16: 24. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

I could go on for days on the Sanctified life. I will leave you with that to chew on. It is all Bible. These ideas you put forth, disagree with the Bible. Don't be hard hearted, like the Hebrews were, heed the Spirit. Search your heart.

God Bless

 

Can anyone tell me who RYAN WHITE is?

 

RYAN WHITE:

Isn't he that little boy that died from AIDS, that he got from a hemopheliac transfusion?

That is what is coming up in my mind when I hear that name.

The Ryan White Story

That's the only Ryan White I know of.

Why do you ask?

God Bless

 

My thought's on tongues...Singer is this...
Yes I believe people are given this from the
Lord..
But I also believe...That it should be interpatated to those visiting a Church..That's
not able to understand this..

Because: I have a brother..inlaw that was not
saved..was visiting a Church & they scared Him
out of the Church...

It took a few year's before He would ever go
back into a Church..

But thank the Lord above He did finely..But
still to this day he's still weiry of this?

And in all honesty He visit's Church now..But I
still don't believe he's made a true comitement.

Because he's not atending very offten at all..
So I pray this didnot stop him from openning
His heart up to the Lord...& I mean giving his
soul to the Lord!!

Because this would be allful if this Man was
afraid to the point that he looses his soul to
the devil..All because of speaking in tongues!!

And yes we have tryed to speak to him about this
& you have to understand this guy...He's kindof
slow getting thing's..So we are not sure if what
we are trying to get threw to Him is getting their..So I'm not Sure a bout his salvation??

So do you believe this is right or wrong???

WILLOW 2

 

not at the fact of who Ryan White is but the fact that Ryan White that I posted about is someone I knew.

I recently told him about the board and he got on here i guess and emailed me a nasty letter...in jest.

So i got to work this morning and found the email that he wrote. So at first glance I did not recognize the name. But after a few minutes it dawned on me who he was.

Now I can email him your responce. I'm sure we will get some laughs out of it.

God bless

 

Willow2, Welcome to the discussion. Just out of curiosity have you read my posts or posts by DHK about tongues, on this very thread. We have presented scriptual evidence that tongues were a sign to unbelievers (Jews in particular) of pending judgement and when the judgement occured the gift faded out. The Bible really says that if you take an honest sincere look at the evidence. the problem is that people speak in tongues first and investigate the Bible second. Once someone speaks in tongues to get them to admit they are in error is very difficult, because they enjoy the experience and Hey, its human nature to struggle with admitting we are wrong. (remember the "Fonz" on happy days? ) Read the evidence and feel free to present your own scriptual evidence why you support tongues as a active gift in 2003.

Thanks and again welcome,
In Christ,
Brian

 

Willow 2,

Welcome to the discussion.

I think I can help you in answering your concern.

I too know people who were turned off to GOD because of encounters with tongues speakers. These accounts are in my previous post.

I won't dare tell you to go read this whole thread, or we might not hear from you again! The post I am referring to is on the bottom of page 16.

I think it is up to the person who is seeing these things to realize that God gave the church peramiters to know if a person's actions merit credit to God's Spirit. When we apply those tests, it ensures that the blame is placed where it belongs.

If what your friend was seeing was anything like my own experiences the blame should be placed on the people, not God.

God is NOT the author of confusion.

God Bless

 

Brian,

Why would God have needed to use tongues to warn the Jews of the impending judgment?

Jesus warned the Apostles about it.

Why would tongues need to be used to get that message accross?

I'm not seeing the connection here to the 70AD destruction, and what the 3000+ believers that resulted from the day of Pentecost.

God Bless

 

It is not a question of why.

Isa.55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Here is what God says on the matter:

1Cor.14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

It is God that said with the sign of other tongues will I speak to the nation of Israel. Yet they will not hear me. Because they did not take heed to the warnings, the signs, the Word of God, judgement came.
DHK

 

DHK,

Ok, I'm following you, but what about the people who were converted by the tongues event?

Also, at what point were the Jews warned about the judgment in 70AD through tongues?

They were warned by Daniel, and also Jesus mentioned it.

How was that not enough?

I am not questioning God on this, I am questioning your understanding.

Would you please clarify?

God Bless

 

Hey there...I'm not going to try & read the
intire thing.. I would be hear
all night.But I'm very curious 3 AngelsMom..
How long did it take you to write all that on
March 10..? And for the other person's question
Did I read the other post not all of it & I believe I will...But I still believe in tongues!
Because the bible speak's of tongues..I never
stated I believe it's God speaking threw them..
I Believe they are doing it because of the spirit.But I will go back & read & if i'm proved
wrong..I will own up to it..I will be the first
to mit..I don't understand all the Bible & I
don't believe I have enough time on earth to
ever do that....I can't judge what other's fill
In all honesty I'm not sure...But I will look
into it,
WILLOW 2

 

No it doesn't! How you can LOSE your Salvation has NOTHING to do with how you GOT IT!

No, if you KNOW that the Bible says to keep the Sabbath Holy, and you don't keep it Holy, you aren't 'not doing' good works, you are DISOBEYING God. That is a pretty serious thing don't you think? NOW, myself personally I do not 'go into all the world' to preach the Gospel, but Jesus said to do that didn't He? Do I PREACH the Gospel though? YUP. Can I GO into ALL the world? Sure, if I left my husband, and children, and became a hitchhiker, and stowaway!

You see something as SIMPLE as 'don't work' as a problem, and to me, it is a solution. We are overworked, at least I am, and I need that rest, AND the fellowship.

For the sake of getting jumped on, I am going to let God answer that one.

Hebrews 10:22. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25. Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30. For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

God Bless

 

Matthew 7:13. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

God Bless