Originally posted by Singer:
Miss Spitfire 3AM:
Ok...your turn. I love your vigor for the Lord.
Thanks for examining my fruit, but I've already been inspected and have been found righteous in the eyes of the Lord. And ya know what ? It wasn't anything I did. I emphasize the word did ... DID. Like in DO. You know....like in DO go to church on Saturday. That wouldn't make me righteous.
The Sabbath Commandment doesn't say 'go to church', it says 'do not work'. It isn't anything that you can do, to gain salvation, but there are things that you can do, and not do, that can be the cause of the loss of your salvation. Once saved always saved is something that is highly controvercial. You want to know why? Because there is so much scripture that is not in agreement with it.
Your beliefs have a problem with what the Bible says. The Bible always takes presidence over any thing that a person says is true. The Bible should be admonished here, OVER your own feelings.
Paul makes a very valid point about people who think as you do.
Romans 3
1. What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2. Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4. God forbid: yea,
let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5. But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) [if we break the law, and God punishes us, does that make God unrighteous?]--->
6. God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? [and he answers his own question]
7. For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? [he makes mention of the 9th commandment]
8. And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. [here is your opinion, that we don't want to even TRY to be good, because that way GRACE may abound, and you see the outcome]
9. What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10. As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14. Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15. Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16. Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17. And the way of peace have they not known:
18. There is no fear of God before their eyes. [ok, he just touched on the first 4 Commandments (lack of fear) and the 9th again, and also the 6th]
19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [who is under the law? EVERY mouth, and the WHOLE world.]
20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. [NO flesh justified by the doing of the law (what part of the law justified men? Circumcision. (which is what Paul starts out talking about), the point being that by knowing the law, you can know what it is that displeases God, not that the DOING alone can save you, but through it, you know you are a sinner.]
21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [now, WITHOUT the DOING of the law there is the Righteousness of God MANEFESTED, in GRACE. It was not the doing of the law that saved the pre-Christ believers, it was their FAITH in the workings of the law that saved them. They sacrificed by faith, in the Shadow that is Christ, and God forgave their sins.]
22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [all who believed were given the righteousness of Christ, through the workings of the law. If they HAD NOT done the things written in the law, they would have been called 'children of disobedience' and would NOT have been acting in faith.]
23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. [We all sin, therefore we all need a Savior. We are JUSTIFIED by Christ, it is through FAITH (the law of faith) that we are placed in His Grace]
27. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay:
but by the law of faith. [so is there any place for pride here? Can we say that WE achieved grace? NO all of it is of Christ. It was HIM that they were sacrificing to, and it is HIM that payed the final sacrifice. It is by faith in Him, that He will justify us. It is ACCORDING to the LAW of Faith.]
28. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. [Justified by Christ, without having to sacrifice, and circumcize. (that is what he is talking about when he says DEEDS of the law. This isn't referring to the 10 Commandments. It is referring to WHAT used to justify the Jews. The Shadow. Now that Christ has fulfilled the 'shadow', it is no longer a valid way of justification. Only Christ can justify.]
29. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: [Now we see that Grace is for all. It is not limited to those circumcized. (that is how you became 'jewish' if you weren't born Jewish)]
30. Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [Then he separates the two, the Jews (by clip clip) are justified BY Faith, and it is the non Jew who is justified THROUGH Faith. What's the difference?]
31.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
[Those who are justified THROUGH faith ESTABLISH the law. Do you think that is talking about the clip clip and the sacrifice, or something else? Could it be the 'law of faith' in this case, considering he is talking about the non Jew?]
What is the Law of Faith? Did you know that if you are in Christ through FAITH, that you are UNDER the Law of Faith? Let's see what that is.
Read Galatians 5, and Ephesians 4, Philipians 3, 1 Timothy 6, Hebrews 11, . They sum it up pretty well.
Titus 1:16. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Hebrews 6: 9. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
10. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12. That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Hebrews 10: 22. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25. Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30. For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
James 2:8. If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9. But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14. What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15. If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16. And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17. Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22. Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23. And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Examine Spitfire.....
Why are you saved.? You know it's because of God's grace via your faith. If it is something you do....then if you stop DOing it...you're lost ????
I am not saved. I am commited to Christ, and I am IN Christ through Faith. I will not be saved until Jesus comes back.
Faith without works is dead. If I say I have faith in God, and I live in sin, then I have FAILED the Grace of God, and proven myself a liar. If I say I love God, and do not obey His Commandments, I am a liar and the truth is not in me. So YES, if I say I have faith, and that it saves me, and then I live contrary to the Bible, I am really only fooling myself, for I am truly lost.
Imagine that if you take your same heart's committments and woship on Sunday. Would
the change of day condemn you ..?
I couldn't have the same heart's commitment and call the day of the sun 'Sabbath' (that is what you mean). Worship can be done on any day. We gather because that is when no one is at work. The commanment says not to work on that day. If I STOPPED keeping the Sabbath Holy, ON PURPOSE, then YES that would condemn me, for if we sin wilfully after coming to the knowledge of the truth, there is no longer a sacrifice for our sins.
NO....There's no evidence of it in the bible.
You must have a different Bible from me then. Mine says it does.
On the other hand, if I were to change to Saturday to gain salvation, then a WORK would have saved me.
No, silly, you should keep the Sabbath because God told you to, and you love Him, and you want to obey Him, because of your faith.
It isn't to GAIN salvation, you have that by Grace from God, THROUGH your faith. That, without works, is DEAD!
Works are not a salvation issue.
God doesn't agree with you. Read the Bible.
Remember it's Whosoever Believes....not Whosoever Does.
Again, you make yourself out to look rather ignorant putting forth these assumptions.
James 1:21. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24. For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
26. If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
27. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Belief does not require actions to create salvation.
On that statement you are correct, your believing is the first step. Faith takes over.... and leads you to obedience.
Belief is followed by voluntary actions that build rewards.
So then you know that there is a reward for your actions (bad and good). You aren't as ignorant as you seem.
You want to know what it is?
Revelation 22: 11. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
2 John 2: 5. And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
6. And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
7. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11. For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Matthew 16: 24. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
I could go on for days on the Sanctified life. I will leave you with that to chew on. It is all Bible. These ideas you put forth, disagree with the Bible. Don't be hard hearted, like the Hebrews were, heed the Spirit. Search your heart.
God Bless
