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Why Would a Pastor Condone Freemasonry

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by O.F.F., May 22, 2004.

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  1. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    We can solve some of this problem rather easily...

    Would any current member of a Masonic Lodge please post the full unedited text of his oaths (plural) on this thread...

    And, state their current membership level or ranking.

    If not? Why not?
     
    #41 SpiritualMadMan, May 26, 2004
  2. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    No I would not because I said I would not. But read a book called Born in the Blood by John Robinson.
     
    #42 Jacob Webber, May 26, 2004
  3. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Here again we have the deceit. Jacob refuses to say what we all know. He has spoken false against those who have asked questions. Major B, never even inferred that he did not preach the Gospel. It is the role of the pastor not to just evangelize but also to disciple and to protect the sheep. The Bible tells us in 1 Thessalonians 5: 21-22, "But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil"

    Lay it out there you professing brothers in Christ, let it be examined in the light of the Scripture. If it stands the test I will be the first to apologize. But you know it won't. We are still waiting and will continue waiting, but while we are we know what you have said in your bloody oath and we know the promise of salvation spoken when you received your apron, that has nothing to do with Jesus.

    By the way Jacob, you have stated that freemasonry teaches salvation by Jesus, and you have ironiously stated that the SBC said such. Does that mean every practicing Mason is a Christian? And if not how could a good mason who has had as part of the ritual the teaching of Christ and not believe still be a good mason.

    Bro Tony
     
    #43 Bro Tony, May 26, 2004
  4. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    It will not happen, even though we know what is said because of our brothers who have come out of the darkness of masonry.

    These men who remain in masonry and profess Christ would rather keep their childish yet devilish secrets with there brothers in the lodge than examine them with truly saved brothers to find out if they are biblical. They are walking in darkness and they are bringing judgment on themselves and the church. They accuse pastors of not preaching the Gospel when that pastor speaks against the evils of masonry, but they cannot see that their very involvement in the lodge denies the Lord Jesus Christ.

    We must continue to call them out, who knows maybe some will hear and be set free.

    Bro Tony
     
    #44 Bro Tony, May 26, 2004
  5. Major B

    Major B <img src=/6069.jpg>

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    #45 Major B, May 26, 2004
  6. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

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    To All,

    The only secrets in Freemasonry are the "modes of recognition," which include the signs (right angles, horizontals & perpendiculars), due guards (the position of ones hands while taking the obligation or oath), passwords, and grips (secret handshakes). Everything else can be shared, including the oaths. Corey is either afraid to share the oaths in fear of violating them, or in fear that they will be shown to violate God's Word when placed under the light of Scripture.

    The following links are provided to help in answering your quesitions:

    The Secrets of Freemasonry

    The Masonic ritual:

    The Master Mason or Third Degree (the oath can be found on page 9 & 10 of the Ritual in this PDF file starting midway on the right-side of the page)

    The Fellow Craft or Second Degree (the oath can be found on page 9 of the PDF file near the top left-side of the page)

    The Entered Apprentice or First Degree (the oath can be found on page 9 near the top right-side of the page)

    Let me know what you think, particularly in light of Scripture.

    In so far as Ben's question about a curse on the families of Masons, I believe that if a man repents, renounces Freemasonry, and resigns from the Lodge, he is set free from any of its affects. However, as long as he remains in the lodge, he and his family will suffer the consequences, just as they would with any other sin. Hence, the curse that comes from that passage of Scripture that talks about generational sins past down from our fathers and forefathers.

    In other words, if my mother or father was an alcoholic, then I'd have the potential to becoming one too, if I were to follow their example. In the same way, had I remained a Mason, perhaps my sons would grow up and become Masons, who could have my grandsons follow them into the lodge, which could result in the perpetual curse of being duped by the false teachings of Freemasonry for generations to come.

    However, I am a firm believer that once the cycle is broken, it's broken for good. For "he who the Son sets free is free indeed." (John 8:36)

    In Christ Hands,

    Mike Gentry
    Order of FORMER Freemasons

    [ May 26, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: O.F.F. ]
     
    #46 O.F.F., May 26, 2004
  7. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    Major B
    You are there to present the Gospel if anyman tells or trys to hinder you. You do not stop you contuine. I understand I would not want a Jehovah's Witness or Morman in leader ship postion in my Church. But I would not quit because of it I would approch the issue using Gods word and straighten the matter out. Do not run from the problem confront it with God and He will see you thru it.

    (Sophistry. There is a mock resurrection, and you know it.)
    This is a Lie and you know it read the ritual again tell does anyone come back to life.

    Bro Tony
    I have asked you twice already to show the Heresy and yet again you did not post any. I have ansered your questions but you refuse the answer because it is true and can not be twist to suit you need the oath uses poetic language that can easily be twisted into something it is not. I simple took out the poetic language and presented the core meaning of the Oath. I also addressed the Apron and you refuse to accept it because again becuase I broke it down to its core meaning without the us of poetic language so that it can not be twisted.

    (By the way Jacob, you have stated that freemasonry teaches salvation by Jesus, and you have ironiously stated that the SBC said such. Does that mean every practicing Mason is a Christian? And if not how could a good mason who has had as part of the ritual the teaching of Christ and not believe still be a good mason.)

    Of course not every practicing Mason is a Christian (Not every practicing church memeber is a Christian) He can be a good man just not a perfect man perfected by the Blood of the Lamb. Thru Christ we are made perfect our sins are forgiven.

    The same as a person who can goto church all of there life and never accept Christ. Just because you are thaght the loving Grace of Jesus Christ does not mean you will accept it.

    (These men who remain in masonry and profess Christ would rather keep their childish yet devilish secrets with there brothers in the lodge than examine them with truly saved brothers to find out if they are biblical. They are walking in darkness and they are bringing judgment on themselves and the church. They accuse pastors of not preaching the Gospel when that pastor speaks against the evils of masonry, but they cannot see that their very involvement in the lodge denies the Lord Jesus Christ.)

    Let me ask you this the early christians used sercert signs of recognition so that one would know another is a christian. During the Roman killings of Christians a christian would come up and draw half of a fish on the ground if the other fellow was a Christian he would complete the fish this was a secrect know only to the christians. There was guards posted at the doors of houses that were holding church meetings or sermons they kept these a secret so that the roman guards would not find them and kill them they would only tell those who were seeking Christ.

    You comdem Freemasorny for having secret signs and using a ritual teach about charity, love and the keeping of ones word even at the cost of his life. Because if they reveiled the name of a brother it would have cost that brothers life. because they were being hunted down and killed just for being a Mason. Under tourcher they would confess to any sort of heresy just to be relieved.
     
    #47 Jacob Webber, May 26, 2004
  8. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    (Corey is either afraid to share the oaths in fear of violating them, or in fear that they will be shown to violate God's Word when placed under the light of Scripture.)

    I have shared the core meaning of the oaths I just left out the poetic language because it can easliy be twisted into something it is not.
     
    #48 Jacob Webber, May 26, 2004
  9. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Or on the other hand can be disguised from what it really is.

    Jacob, your comparison of the secrecy of the lodge and that of early Christian sickens me. Your silly oaths and secrets have nothing to do with the life and death situation that our forefathers went through. Secondly, they did not keep secrets from their brothers in Christ, the same cannot be said by those involved in masonry.

    Finally, you have said I have not provided any examples of heresy or that which would conflict with the Christian faith. I have, I asked you to look at your oaths and your ceremony when you received your apron. That you do not see the false and contrary teachings is more the pity. You may be a professing Christian, but you have shown yourself to be blind to the truth. Your "poetic language" is devilish and anti-christian, and you can't hide behind your self-serving interpretation of it. It is bloody, ugly and you ought to be ashamed before God that you took it and are now trying to defend it.

    I again warn you with fear and trembling before a holy God, please come out!
    Bro Tony
     
    #49 Bro Tony, May 26, 2004
  10. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Jacob,

    O.F.F. has given links to the oaths at the top of this page, if you don't remember what you said. I do not need to repeat them in my posts. You know what they are you just don't seem to understand what they really say. [​IMG]

    Bro Tony
     
    #50 Bro Tony, May 26, 2004
  11. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    (Jacob, your comparison of the secrecy of the lodge and that of early Christian sickens me. Your silly oaths and secrets have nothing to do with the life and death situation that our forefathers went through.)

    Perhaps if you had done your research you would find out other wise.

    (Secondly, they did not keep secrets from their brothers in Christ, the same cannot be said by those involved in masonry.)
    Masons do not keeps secrets from other Masons. The same can be said.


    (Finally, you have said I have not provided any examples of heresy or that which would conflict with the Christian faith. I have, I asked you to look at your oaths and your ceremony when you received your apron.)

    I look at the Oaths they are not Heresy to vow to help, add and protect someone even at the cost of my own life is not heresy if it is than the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force are all guilty of Heresy and When you take your wedding vows You pledge to love and stand by them until death do you part.

    Male
    ______, I love you. Today is a very special day. Long ago you were just a dream and a prayer. This day like a dream come true the Lord Himself has answered that prayer. For today, ______, you as my joy become my crown. I thank Jesus for the honor of going through time with you. Thank you for being what you are to me. With our future as bright as the promises of God, I will care for you, honor and protect you. I lay down my life for you, _____, my friend and my love. Today I give to you me.

    Female
    ______, I love you and I know you love me. I am confident that God has chosen you to be my husband. It is my prayer and desire that you will find in me the helpmeet God designed especially for you, and in confidence I will submit myself unto your headship as unto our Lord. Therefore, _____, I pledge to you my life as an obedient, faithful and loving wife. Whither thou goest I will go, whither thou lodgest I will lodge, Thy people shall be my people, And thy God my God.


    This wedding vow pledges to lay down there life for one antohter to protect. Freemaosnry pledges to protect even at the loss of my own life. I ask you what is the difference.

    The Apron Lecture I receive is different from the one Mike posted. But never the less you will also see the may it be your portion to hear it does not say it will be your portion to here because Freemasonry does not claim to know the relationship between you an God and it can not tell you that you are going to Heaven.


    (MAY it be your portion to hear
    from Him who sitteth as the Judge Supreme the
    welcome words: “Well done, thou good and
    faithful servant! Thou hast been faithful over a few)

    So you see the Oath does not commit Heresy and the Apron Lecture does not commit Heresy again I ask you to post the Heresy.

    (if you don't remember what you said)

    I do remember what I said and it is ot on those pages. And some words are left out. Because the books are designed that way.
     
    #51 Jacob Webber, May 26, 2004
  12. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Jacob,

    I have done my research and have read the urban legends of freemasonry. And even if the "secret" signs and symbols were needed to protect the craft when it was practiced, they surely are not need now.

    I know you don't keep your secrets from your brother masons. You do keep them from your brothers in Christ. This action show that you have a higer allegience to the lodge than to the Church of the living God. If you didn't you would be willing to have genuine Christian brothers join you in a biblical examination to see if the teachings of masonry stand up to biblical standards.

    Finally, your inane comparisons continue to go lower and lower. You have compared your ungodly bloody oaths to the military, to the early Christians, and now to marriage. By the way Jacob, if you are married, what did you do with your wedding ring when you took your oaths and how much have you shared with your wife, of whom you are supposed to be one with? You have slandered the military, our forefathers and the God ordained covenant of marriage with your delusional comparisons.

    I have to wonder where this stuff comes from, but it is clear for all to see that a man walking in darkness has no idea where he is going. He will believe anything, and even distort the truth to justify his blindness.

    Come back to Jesus and His Word and let Him give you the real Light.

    Bro Tony
     
    #52 Bro Tony, May 26, 2004
  13. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    (I know you don't keep your secrets from your brother masons. You do keep them from your brothers in Christ. This action show that you have a higer allegience to the lodge than to the Church of the living God.)

    Bro Tony
    I do kept secrets from some of my Brothers in Christ. People who are not Masons and are Christians have told me things and asked me to kept it a secret. I have kept it a secret from everyone except God. If someone entrust me with a secret I do not care if I am around my Christian Brothers and Sisters I will keep it a Secret because I am a Man of my Word. It is not an higher allegance to the Lodge. It is what is called Keeping your Word and it has helped me witness the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ to people because they know that they can share stuff with me in confidence that I will not tell anyone else and it really opens doors to Share the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    (I have done my research and have read the urban legends of freemasonry. And even if the "secret" signs and symbols were needed to protect the craft when it was practiced, they surely are not need now.)

    Good than you relieze the parts you consider blood are symbolic of those times as a remind of what the craft went thru.

    You do not like the comparisons because they are true people get that way when confronted with the Truth. And yes I am married and Yes I share alot with my wife. But again wether someone is Mason or not if they tel me something and ask me to keep it a secret than I will not tell it again it is called Keeping Your Word.

    (You have slandered the military, our forefathers and the God ordained covenant of marriage with your delusional comparisons.)

    No slander just showed you clearly how they say by Oath that You would lay done you life if necessary to protect someone. You can reject it all you want but that is what it says.


    I would wlecome any study into Freemasonry I would just like for you to kept an open mind and not condem Freemasonry right of the bat but study it first.
     
    #53 Jacob Webber, May 26, 2004
  14. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

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    Corey,

    While Bro. Tony has a valid point with respect to the Masonic Oaths, I believe there is a strong case of heresy in other aspects of Freemasonry. You asked for the heresy and I presented it several pages ago, which you were unable to biblically refute.

    I will re-visit one aspect again, which in my opinion is the greatest Masonic heresy of ALL. The Masonic concept of God as described by Larry Kunk of Ephesians 5:11, Inc.:

    The Masonic Paradigm

    Freemasonry is able to accept the Christian’s faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as faith in the existence of "A Supreme Being." Similarly, Freemasonry is able to accept the Mormon’s faith in a god who was once a man living on another planet as faith in the existence of "A Supreme Being." Freemasonry likewise accepts the Moslems faith in Allah, a god who has no son, as faith in the existence of "A Supreme Being." The Hindu is also able to satisfy the Masonic requirement of faith in the existence of "A Supreme Being" with his faith that everything that exists is part of Brahman.

    How is Freemasonry able to accept these different, incompatible concepts of God as expressions of faith in the existence of A (SINGULAR) Supreme Being? Freemasonry is able to do this essentially because the Masonic paradigm of God holds that all men worship the same God, simply using a variety of different names. Somewhat like Hinduism, Freemasonry holds that all of the various gods, along with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are all in essence the same God, viewed from the different vantage points of the many world religions. Freemasonry rejects the concept of a false god, as well as the concept of false religion. These Masonic teachings are clearly explained in Masonic Monitors, Masonic Code and other Masonic materials published by the authorities of Freemasonry, the Grand Lodges. Consider the follow excerpts:

    "There never was a false god, nor was there ever really a false religion, unless you call a child a false man." - Max Müller

    Quoted in Louisiana Masonic Monitor, 1949

    Not only does Freemasonry teach that all false gods are actually God by another name, Freemasonry applies teachings of eternal life to all Masons, with or without faith in Jesus Christ:

    "As Masons we have one faith, one hope, one charity. We believe in, and depend upon the same God, have the same hope of eternal life, and that same charity which is of an enduring and uniting nature, which will enable all the good and true to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace and in righteousness of life."

    Kentucky Monitor, p. 169

    The Masonic concept of monotheism is much like the Hindu concept of monotheism, rather than the Christian view which dictates that there is One God and many false gods. Hindu monotheism views all of the various Hindu deities and all gods of other religions as merely extensions of Brahman and therefore actually the same deity. Masonic monotheism holds that all of the various gods of all false religions are the same God as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Freemasonry requires that its members believe in one God.

    Additionally, Freemasonry requires that its members accept the Masonic doctrine known as the Fatherhood of God, Brotherhood of man. This last requirement is not stated verbally, but rather is implemented by acceptance of organizational requirements.

    "The first of the universally recognized Landmarks of Freemasonry states that ‘monotheism is the sole dogma of Freemasonry. Belief in one God is required of every initiate, but his conception of the Supreme Being is left to his own interpretation. Freemasonry is not concerned with theological distinctions. This is the basis of our universality.’"

    Indiana Mentor’s Manual, p. 19

    "Masonry has no religious dogma other than that it requires a belief in Deity. Any man, good and true, whether he be Christian, Jew, Mohammedan, Parsee, Buddhist, Brahman or Deist may be admitted to Masonry because all these religions require a belief in Deity."

    Masonic Code of Alabama, p. 141, 1963

    "To the altar of Freemasonry all men bring their most votive offerings. Around it all men, whether they have received their teachings from Confucius, Zoroaster, Moses, Mohammad or the founder of the Christian religion--just so long as they believe in the universality of the fatherhood of God and universality of the brotherhood of man--meet upon a common level. The Jew returns to his synagogue, the Mohammedan to his mosque and the Christian to his temple--each better prepared for the solemn duties of life by the associations in this universal brotherhood."

    Louisiana Monitor, p. 150, 1988

    The Fatherhood of God, Brotherhood of man doctrine embodies the foundation of Masonic teaching. It holds that there is one God who is the Father of all men and is worshiped by men of any and all religions. Freemasonry teaches that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the same spirit which the Hindus worship as Brahman, the Moslems worship as Allah, the Mormons worship as Elohim, and the Zoroastrians (Parsees) worship as Ahura Mazdah.

    All Masons implicitly embrace the doctrine of the Fatherhood of God, Brotherhood of man; they put it into practice when they participate in Lodge. Freemasonry prohibits a "discussion of religion" within the Lodge. When a candidate is brought before the Lodge to be voted into membership, no one is allowed to ask if the candidate is a Hindu, Moslem, Mormon, Buddhist, or if he claims to be a Christian. By voting to admit men who may not have faith in Jesus Christ as God into membership, or by sitting in Lodge with such men, the "Christian" Mason and all other Masons put the Fatherhood of God, Brotherhood of man doctrine into practice.

    By sitting in Lodge, or recognizing other men as Masons, a man implicitly agrees that the other men have met the key requirements for membership. Those requirements are that they believe in the existence of "A Supreme Being" and that they believe that there is only one God. Scripture states that anyone who does not abide in the teachings of Jesus does not have God. (2 John 9) Jesus said, "No one comes to the Father but by Me. (John 14:6) Freemasonry disagrees.

    "Each Mason, at one point in our ceremonies, expresses a belief in the existence of a Supreme Being. To refuse or decline to do so would have denied him the privileges of Freemasonry. We welcome to our doors and admit to our privileges Worthy men of all faiths and creeds who possess the indispensable qualifications, and bar none because of their faith or creed."

    Masonry and the Mason, Grand Lodge of Texas, p.7, 1997

    If a particular Mason were to believe the teachings of Christianity and understand the Christian paradigm which holds that the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons rather than God, he could not knowingly accept a man who has faith in a false god as one who has faith in the existence of "A Supreme Being." To do so would be to take the inconsistent position that demons are Supreme Beings.

    The difficulties in joining men of incompatible religions around the altar of universal religion becomes obvious when the issue of prayer is considered. Freemasonry cannot choose the god of any well known false religion as the object of worship, as even immature Christians would recognize the error immediately. Similarly, they cannot choose Jesus Christ, or the Holy Trinity as the object of worship because Jews, Moslems and others in the Lodge would be offended. The obvious solution is to to keep Jesus out of the Lodge and attempt to cause all present to believe or pretend that they are praying to the same spirit they worship when they meet congregationally with others who practice their particular religion. Freemasonry solves this problem with the Masonic paradigm that all men worship the same God, simply using different names.

    Freemasons offer prayer to a god who is known as the Great Architect of the Universe (GAOTU.) Freemasonry defines the nature of the GAOTU with adherence to the Fatherhood of God, Brotherhood of man doctrine. The GAOTU is implicitly defined as Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Allah, the Mormon Elohim, Ahura Mazdah, Baal, Molech and all other false gods which have ever been named by man. When Freemasonry causes pagans to join in prayer to the GAOTU, are they then worshiping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? No, they are still worshiping demons, as would be any Christian who would join with them. Participation in Freemasonry ensnares a man in idolatry.

    In the Lodge, prayer is offered by one man for all present. Grand Lodges confirm the nature of Masonic teachings and prayer:

    "A Mason offering prayer in the Lodge may pray to his God -- observing his own conception of Deity. . . . None should take umbrage because he addresses his prayer to his own conception of Deity. He must use prayer in the Ritual in all ritualistic ceremonies. Any other prayer is out of order in such ceremonies."

    Masonic Code of Alabama, p. 141-2, 1963

    "When addressing the Deity in prayer it should never be done in a way that excludes Brothers of other faiths and of necessity should be inclusive and universal, not sectarian or denominational."

    Masonic Manual of Minnesota, p109, 1998

    "Masons believe that there is one God and that people employ many different ways to seek and to express what they know of God. Masons primarily uses (sic) the appellation, "Grand Architect of the Universe," and other non-sectarian titles, to address Deity. In this way, persons of different faiths may join together in prayer, concentrating on God rather than on differences among themselves. Masonry believes in religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and God is personal, private, and sacred."

    Masonic Manual of Minnesota, p16, 1998

    The Grand Lodge of Indiana reveals that the object of prayer in the Lodge, the GAOTU is not actually God, but rather merely a symbol:

    "One fundamental of Freemasonry is its non-sectarian character. Any man may offer his devotions to the Deity he reveres, under the Masonic title, no matter what name he may use in his religious worship. Thus, Great Architect of the Universe (or any of its variations) is a symbol of Deity as named and worshiped in all religions."

    Indiana Mentor’s Manual, p. 49

    Christians who accurately understand the Masonic paradigm concerning God will never become a Mason. Those who become aware of the Masonic paradigm after joining the Lodge will renounce Freemasonry. Genuine Christians will not knowingly worship at a pagan altar, be it a Masonic altar or any other.

    Church leaders should include teaching about false concepts of God as part of the church’s educational program. Some have claimed that we should simply preach the Gospel and ignore error. That is not a sound position for two very obvious reasons. First, addressing error is Scriptural. Paul wrote:

    I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. (2 Tim 4:1-5)

    John clearly explained how to recognize the heresies of the Gnostics:

    Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the Antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. (1 John 4:1-3)

    We should recognize the spirit behind Freemasonry for what it is. Freemasonry does not confess Jesus. Second, simply preaching the Gospel will not keep church members from becoming ensnared in paganism. Proof of this is present within many churches and often within leadership.

    Many church members are Masons and members of other pagan fraternal orders, such as the Elks, Eagles, Moose, Odd Fellows, etc. If all church members understood the Masonic paradigm, they would be able to instantly recognize the same heresy when it is taught in other fraternal orders. Freemasonry is the archetype for virtually all other fraternal orders.

    Dialog with "Christian" Freemasons has provided evidence that many of them not only understand the Masonic paradigm concerning God, but are willing to defend it. Very few men who are active in Freemasonry over a period of time are ignorant. It is generally the new Mason, or the inactive Mason who is misled. (END)

    Corey, this is NOT misinformation, these are the FACTS. How can you biblically defend these Masonic quotes from Grand Lodge authorities from which your Grand Lodge fully recognize as fellow Masonic brethren in the Craft? Can you show us anything different from your Grand Lodge of Tennessee? More importantly, can you provide verses of Scripture to support such HERESY?

    [ May 26, 2004, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: O.F.F. ]
     
    #54 O.F.F., May 26, 2004
  15. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    It speaks volumes that you cannot distinguish between keeping a confidence and taking an ungodly bloody oath. Truly you and I do not speak the same language, which certainly makes it hard to have a reasonable discussion or debate.
    If only this statement were true, you would actually be the first active mason to be willing to do this. I am sure you are like the rest though you will not openly discuss what goes on in the lodge or even reveal the oath or anything else. You don't really desire or welcome any genuine examination of the lodge. This discussion between you and I is closed as far as I am concerned until you are willing to be open and honest with your Christian brothers. I will one more time implore you to come out of the lodge and walk only in Christ. In Jesus we need nothing else.

    May the Spirit of the Living God touch your heart and bring you out of darkness into His wonderful light.

    Bro Tony
     
    #55 Bro Tony, May 26, 2004
  16. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    #56 Ben W, May 27, 2004
  17. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    Mike, you have rightly quoted John 8:36 "he who the Son sets free is free indeed". Yet can you not see that a person who accepts Jesus Christ is set free there and then? He is forgiven under the blood of Jesus all of his sins, past present and future. Christians pray daily for forgiveness of sins yet we pray for forgiveness knowing that we are already forgiven.

    The cycle of Sin is broken for good when a person commits His life to Jesus be he in any situation. What Jesus did on the cross broke the power of sin for all those that would accept Him forever. It broke all of it not leaving extras to be taken care of later by another means.

    Every Christian that dies does so with some measure of Sin in his life. Yet when the Judgement is to be applied, the blood of Jesus covers fully any sin. It is impossible for any person to die sinless without knowing Jesus as his Saviour.

    You stated that if any mason stays in the lodge his family will suffer the consequences. Untrue. If his family know Jesus as their saviour, there is no possible curse that can be over them, there may well have been generational curses over people in the Old Testament. Yet like every other curse they were broken by Jesus on the Cross. If you have been tricked into believeing that a Christian can be cursed, you have been decieved. Where is there a Scripture in the New Testament that states that a Christian can be cursed? There is not one because Jesus broke every curse on the Cross.

    Why is it that I defend the Masons? that is a reasonable question. Click on my post records and you will see that I have been the author to quite a few posts sledging the Freemasons, particurly with the word jah-bul-on.

    I gave my life to Jesus at 15 years of age in a Salvation Army church. Some people there had a hate on for Freemasons. Some while after I was converted, I was told that because my Grandfather and great uncle were Freemasons, I was under some type of Generational Curse and needed to go through there deliverance ministry of these curses being broken. So much for all cursed being broken by Jesus Christ. This happened and I went away thinking that all was well. yet what they had done was insert doubt into my mind, was I really saved. Was what they did at the altar enough to break these curses and would God accept me?

    Years went by and without realising it Fear has been implanted in my life. Instead of having a loving relationship with God I was living in fear and not feeling that I was right with God, and no I had nothing to do with Freemasons or any other Fraternity sect or religious group.

    People that know me here know that I went through a stage in the last two years that I believed that by keeping the Sabbath I would gain Gods favour. I was trapped in a law based religion of works and I could not see where it had all come from. Which I recognise now as the gnostic lies of my anti masonic friends.

    At the start of this year I read tbe book "The Grace Awakening" by Charles Swindoll which I advise you and every other Anti Mason to read. This book changed my life as I realised that God really did love me and accepted me by Grace all based on the fact that His Son Jesus had died just for me that I would have eternal life. no manner of works that I would do could change any of it. I realised that if perfect sabbath keeping was required for people to be saved, then Jesus did not have to come at all.

    Today I am a changed man. The Grace of God has changed my life and I realised that when I first let Him in, He came in and changed my life forever, despite what others may have tried to put on me.

    I would like to reach out to anyone who is under any type of condemnation, believing that certain works are required to save them. I want people to know that if they have asked Jesus into their hearts then they have an assurance of Salvation. and no man can take that away from them.

    I encourage everyone to read "The Grace Awakening" by Charles Swindoll, It will change your life forever.
     
    #57 Ben W, May 27, 2004
  18. Jude

    Jude <img src=/scott3.jpg>

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    Does the Baptist Church have a 'position' on Freemasonry? What about nationally-known ministries such as the BGEA or 'Focus on the Family'?
     
    #58 Jude, May 27, 2004
  19. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

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    Ben,

    Please do not misread what I said, or take it out of context. As you said:

    If you carefully read what you've quoted, I am saying the same thing you are. However, correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that after coming to Christ there is no need for personal accountability to strive to live a lifestyle of repentance.

    "Christian" Masons violate the First Commandment as they kneel in prayer at a "common" altar with believers in false gods and, they commit idolatry as they pray to the "generic" god of Freemasonry called (GAOTU). They also violate the same as they tacitly agree with the Masonic teaching that all gods are basically the same, and that all 'holy' writings of all the world religions are inspired by that same god. Together they are sins of HERESY, plain and simple.

    As a Christian, I have no right to question another Christian's salvation. That is between them and God. However, if they have truly accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, as brothers & sisters in Christ we have an obligation to point out their sin, in order that they may repent.

    Yes, but as "Christian" Masons are informed of their sin by their involvement in Freemasonry, they have a choice to repent, not a struggle to repent. What I mean is, you're right, we all will die with some measure of sin in our lives. But, while refusing to resign from the Lodge may be the result of some spiritual stronghold, I don't think it is the same as struggling with other sins, such as alcohol or some sort of sexual addictiion. But whether it is or not, we still have the same obligation to help a brother overcome the stronghold, just as we do with an addiction. (2 Timothy 4:2)

    Yes Ben, there are consequences for all sin, some are very obvious, others are subtle. Most Masons don't beat their wives, but as long as they remain in the Lodge that will gradually influence them and their children to view the world from a Masonic perspective, which is spiritually harmful. It only make sense that they will have such influence, since they cannot live their Masonic lives in a vacuum.

    The word "curse" has several definitions. When I referred to the Curse of Freemasonry in the quote you posted above, I meant this one: "a cause of great harm or misfortune."

    Continued involvement in Freemasonry can (not necessarily will) cause a number of consequences, including but not limited to the following:

    </font>
    • Conflict between family members as a result of some having a Masonic worldview vs. other who have a biblical worldview. I've heard testimonies of bitterness, strife, physical abuse and divorce as a result of such conflict.</font>
    </font>
    • Confusion regarding essential doctrines of the historic Christian faith, such as the nature of God, what constitutes the inspired Word of God, the divinity and lordship of Jesus Christ, salvation by faith in Him alone, etc.</font>

    </font>
    • The indoctrination of children into the Masonic worldview via Rainbow Girls, Job's Daughters and the DeMolay (Masonic youth organitions)</font>
    </font>
    • Generational Masonry as a result of sons, fathers, grand fathers and great grand fathers being Masons, which perpetuates the propagation of the false teachings of Freemasonry.</font>

    The list goes on, but I hope you see my point. From a biblical perspective, these potential consequences can most certainly be the cause of great harm and misfortune.

    [ May 27, 2004, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: O.F.F. ]
     
    #59 O.F.F., May 27, 2004
  20. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    Mike

    As you know the what you call Masonic Monitors are setup in a way they do not present everything text are left out. Plus I have never watch a degree in KY,AL,LA or IN so I could not refute what you said because like you I lack to info from that state. I am in TN I can tell you the TN Craftsmen is what we use again it does not have all of the text in it so you only post half of it and not all.

    First right of the bat the Blue Lodge is not a Christian Frat it does not claim to be one. It asked that you believe in a Supreme Being for the purpose of knowing that you are accountable to something other than yourself and in that you can be trusted. The God in the Ritual of Fremasonry is YHWH if you studied it you would know Freemasonry again does not ask you to believe in YHWH. As I stated before it does not know your relationship with God. It is up to the Christians who belong to the lodge to witness the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ to those without Him. Freemasonry seems to have started out as a Christian only Frat in place of GAOTU the name YHWH was used. Than some Jews wanted to join YHWH's name could not be pronounced by jews due to their tradtions. So it was changed to God. Than a Presbyterian minister change it again to Great Architect of the Universe which He got from John Calvin:

    By Leazer
    The phrase Great Architect of the Universe came into Freemasonry as early as 1723, according to Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia, when it appeared in James Anderson's Book of Constitutions. Anderson, a Scottish Presbyterian minister in London, did not invent the phrase. It was repeatedly used by Reformed theologian John Calvin (1509-1564). "In his Commentary on Psalm 19, Calvin states the heavens 'were wonderfully founded by the Great Architect.' Again, according to the same paragraph, Calvin writes 'when once we recognize God as the Architect of the Universe, we are bound to marvel at his Wisdom, Strength, and Goodness.' In fact, Calvin repeatedly calls God 'the Architect of the Universe' and refers to his works in nature as 'Architecture of the Universe' 10 times in the Institutes of the Christian Religion alone" (Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia, p. 516). If we accept the logic of Masonic critics, then Calvin must have believed the God revealed in the Psalms and elsewhere in the Bible is a false god. This, of course, is absurd, as are all of the Masonic critics' arguments.

    Bro Tony
    (I am sure you are like the rest though you will not openly discuss what goes on in the lodge or even reveal the oath or anything else. )

    I will dicuss what I can. But what puzzles me is that you tell me to let my yes be yes and no be no and than you want me to go back on my yes that I would not reveal the secrets of the Lodge.

    (It speaks volumes that you cannot distinguish between keeping a confidence and taking an ungodly bloody oath. Truly you and I do not speak the same language, which certainly makes it hard to have a reasonable discussion or debate.)

    Truely I guess we do not I am willing to keep my word when you want me to go back on it.
     
    #60 Jacob Webber, May 27, 2004
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