Why Would a Pastor Condone Freemasonry

[Ben W]

Dear O.F.F, I noted that you wanted to know why one poster here only posts on threads on the Freemasons. If you go and have a look at his recent posts, you will see that he posts on a number of subjects on the Baptist Boards.

Yet you yourself only post defamatory posts on the Freemasons here. I think that is a little hypocritical. To accuse someone of something that you do yourself.

Intersestingly the Lodge Room Forum took a poll on Christian Religious affiliation and it was found that Baptists outnumbered the other denominations with the most members. In fact the IFB Baptists were particurly noted as having an affiliation with Freemasonry.

Freemasonry is a Fraternity much like the Elks, oddfellows etc. It encourages its members back to whatever religious group they have come from. Some of the other septs involved like the Rose Croix, Red Cross of Constantine and the Knights Templar are restricted to only Trinitarian Christians because they teach Christianity and require members to study further the Bible.

What I want to know is why the Anti Masonic Sites are so keen to teach Gnostiscm? Why do they teach that Christians can be cursed and that some type of prayer mantras have to be offered to God to break these curses? Jesus Christ sets you free from ALL curses the moment you recieve Him as your Lord and Saviour. There are no Generational Curses or anything like that over Christians, In fact Jesus Himself stated in John 8:36 "If the Son has made you free, you shall be free indeed".

So why is it then that the anti Freemasonry movement is promoting Gnosticm, teaching that "extras" are required other than what Jesus did on the cross to set us Free. As I see it, the Anti Freemasonry movement is teaching a dangerous Gnostic Heresy, and I would consider there heresy a far greater concern than belonging to a Fraternity.

 

[O.F.F.]

Ben, you said:

Dear O.F.F, I noted that you wanted to know why one poster here only posts on threads on the Freemasons. If you go and have a look at his recent posts, you will see that he posts on a number of subjects on the Baptist Boards.

Yet you yourself only post defamatory posts on the Freemasons here. I think that is a little hypocritical. To accuse someone of something that you do yourself.

Where have I accused anyone of only posting in one section of this board? Perhaps you misunderstood something I said, or you are blatantly lying. In either case, please provide a quote of what I supposely said to make you think this.

I could care less where someone chooses to post messages. My interest at this time is to inform the saints here about the truth regarding Freemasonry. If I decide to post in other sections, I will exercise my freedom to do so and I expect other members of this forum to do the same.

Intersestingly the Lodge Room Forum took a poll on Christian Religious affiliation and it was found that Baptists outnumbered the other denominations with the most members. In fact the IFB Baptists were particurly noted as having an affiliation with Freemasonry.

It's no secret that Freemasonry in America is predominately made up of Baptists and United Methodists. Attempting to lend denominational credence to support the false teaching of the Masonic Order is no better than trying to lend Scriptural credence to do the same. It's a deceptive attempt to undermine the truth and Ex-Masons for Jesus are here to expose it for what it really is.

Freemasonry is a Fraternity much like the Elks, oddfellows etc. It encourages its members back to whatever religious group they have come from. Some of the other septs involved like the Rose Croix, Red Cross of Constantine and the Knights Templar are restricted to only Trinitarian Christians because they teach Christianity and require members to study further the Bible.

Freemasonry is a cult, and as I have pointed out in this and the other thread, it is also arguably a religion no matter how much you try to say otherwise. Thank God that there are plenty of saints here who have the spiritual discernment to see through Masonic lies.

What I want to know is why the Anti Masonic Sites are so keen to teach Gnostiscm? Why do they teach that Christians can be cursed and that some type of prayer mantras have to be offered to God to break these curses? ... So why is it then that the anti Freemasonry movement is promoting Gnosticm, teaching that "extras" are required other than what Jesus did on the cross to set us Free. As I see it, the Anti Freemasonry movement is teaching a dangerous Gnostic Heresy, and I would consider there heresy a far greater concern than belonging to a Fraternity.

You make generalizations without merit. Go to the Official Site of the Order of Former Freemasons (http://www.fish4masons.org/home.html) and show me where WE teach gnostism. You are grossly mistaken, or you are deliberately lying, for it is Freemasonry and its legend of the Temple Builder that promotes such heresy.

Given your vehement defense for the indefensible, I take it you are a Mason? If not, perhaps you're strongly considering the idea of joining a lodge.

 

[Bro Tony]

I continue to be amazed at the lack of discernment and the Word of God of those professing Christians who stand and defend freemasonry. O.F.F., praise God for your stand, but these men will not hear for they have been blinded by the enemy. To call those who stand against one of the most mystical and gnostic organizations gnostics is laughable, if it were not so sad.
We indeed are there, the church is in full blown apostasy. I fear for the Body of Christ when it cannot even see something as ungodly as freemasonry for what it is. Does no one have ears to hear and the heart for God to understand?
Bro Tony

 

[O.F.F.]

Thank you Tony!

I applaud your post.

May God richly bless you!

Sincerely your brother in Christ,

Mike Gentry

 

[Jacob Webber]

Mike
I answered your points. Even thou you left out the part we SBC just does not like the terms or the wording because people like you can easily take them out of context. The SBC did not say the statments were false just that they could be misunderstood easily.

Mike you have not exposed anything you have mislead alot of people into thinking Freemasory is an ocult. Mormonism is an ocult. Joseph Smith got alot of his ideals from Freemasonry on the setup of the Temple the Preist Handshakes the Aprons worn by Priest. I fear alot of people have decsided since Joseph Smith was a Mason that it must be evil or that since the mormon church has alot of Masonic influnce in it thou not held true to Masonic teachings means that the Masonic Lodge is an occult. This is simple false. I have been to Anti-Masonic Sites and I was treated very poorly called names by my Christian Brothers told that I was not a Christian that my Testimony held no merit. Even thou I accpeted Jesus as my Savior I was told I was going to Hell simply because I was a Mason.

All 8 points are opnion based from someone just because they do not like the words used that thru Tradition are the words used in the Mid Ages and have not changed much since than in Freemasonry. Thou their modern meanings may have changed they are explained to everymason as to there True meanings again such as:

Worshipful Master meaning Respectiable Man

Light: Meaning Knowledge

Much like the Atheist and Progressive Creationist use the King James Bible to show Old Age or a Luciferian Flood. They use the verse were God tells man after they sin to replenish the Earth. People for some reason the same as you will take this to mean to frefill the Earth because life was once wipeout before. But if you do you reseach you will find that in 1611 Replenish means to Fill or Stock just as Worshipful Master means Respectiable Man you need to put the defintion in the time it was used. Or else all of England commited Heresy ever time they used the Term Lord of the Manner or Lord of Yorkshire.

(I fear for the Body of Christ when it cannot even see something as ungodly as freemasonry for what it is.)

What I fear for the body of Christ is People who are suppose to bring people to Christ are condiming their Brother Christians to Hell for being a Mason. Christ is more powerful than any Masonic Lodge or any Frat He overpowers all that is my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ my Jesus does not loss power to a Frat. I will not burn in Hell for being a Mason Jesus has me and no thing can take me from Him. Why that is so hard for some to understand.

 

[Bro Tony]

Jacob,

Of course Jesus is more powerful than any Masonic Lodge. He is more powerful than satan, that does not mean that Christian men can be involved in satanism and it not matter. The issue here is not the power of Christ, but the obedience of the Lord's people. You are certainly free to join anything you want, but don't try to say that which is anti-biblical is acceptable for Christians.

As far as the SBC and their report on freemasonary, it is clear and simple that they were cowards. Their own report stated that freemasonry is not compatible with the Christian faith and Baptist doctrine, but the refused to condemn it. They have not minded to condemn mormonism and other clearly definable cults they should do the same for freemasonry. Why? They are not receiving any funds from the mormons, but they are from disobedient church members who are a part of the lodge.

There were those who warned DL Moody to tone it down as he spoke against the lodge, that he would drive them out of the church. His response,
"But what if I did? Better men will take their places. Give them the truth anyway, and if they would rather leave their churches than their lodges, the sooner they get out of the churches, the better. I would rather have ten members who are separated from the world than a thousand such members. Better one with God than a thousand without Him."

To which I say Amen! And how I wish, as a Southern Baptist pastor the SBC would have agreed.

Brot Tony

 

[DHK]

It is difficult to find a country that will ban Masonry because of religion. American Masonry asks the candidate, "In all your trials, troubles, and difficulties in life, in whom do you place your trust?" The candidate must say, "In God," but he does not have to say which god. In my twenty years in the Lodge, I only found a very few men whom I could believe were believers in God (the God of the Christian).

It does not require a mental giant to see that this is pure Occultism. Even the Masonic authors seem to be writing about it with tongue in cheek.

The more we investigate the ritual, the more obvious it becomes that we are witnessing a ceremony in which the candidate, if not completely hypnotized, is at least partially so. And yet for all this, men professing Christianity and some even claiming to be ministers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ willingly go into this evil religious system. They support it and say they are proud to be members of the Order.

Many pastors who are not Masons themselves and know that it is a false religion never speak against it for fear of losing some members of their congregations. Could human perversity be better exemplified? I firmly believe that in the manufacture of Freemasonry Satan has outdone himself.

Beware of Freemasonry

 

[Jacob Webber]

Bro Tony

I did not say that it is ok for a Christian to contuine in sin and the willfuly know it. What I said is that Even thou I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior it is not good enuff for thos who believe a Christian can not be a Mason and tell me I will burn in Hell even thou I am a Christian because I am a Mason.

Tony show me in Masonic ritaul not by a Book that a Mason wrote like Bridge to light or Morals and Dogma that a Majority of Masons do not recomend reading. But by Ritual show me the Heresy being thought that you have found. The SBC posted 8 opnions not facts of Heresy. Perhaps you will be able to or Mike for that matter. Again the SBC Study said that Freemasonry teaches Salvation thru Jesus Christ (Lion of the Tribe of Judah). Again the Blue Logde Degrees come from the York Rite a Christian Frat that claims Salvation thru Jesus Christ.

 

[Bro Tony]

Jacob,

First, I did not nor do I judge your salvation. I am concerned as a professing Christian to your blindness to the lodge. Why, if you are faithful to the Lord and active in His church do you need or have time for the lodge? That being said you do have the freedom to do what you want, but that doesn't make it right.

Your refusal to adhere to the writings of acknowledged masonic leaders is the same argument I have heard from every mason who will not honestly look at the lodge. It is so easy to say I don't believe these men or they don't speak for the lodge, or no one officially speaks for the lodge. The following men are recognized be the the authorities of the State Grand Lodges, their writings are given to masons and are held in high esteem in the lodge. They include, Albert Pike, Albert Mackey, Henry Eilson Coil, and Arthur Edward Waite. In their writings the occult is clearly seen. I know you will not accept this, it will just return to the old argument that they don't speak for the lodge, although clearly they do.

Now to the ritual, you have been through it. What did you say in your oaths as you went through the blue lodge? Can you really say that the words you stated are of God, and that they bring glory to Him? Can you even biblically say that you as a Christian are at liberty to take such oaths. What was said to you as you received your apron? You know! How can that not be seen as anti-christian? Jesus is the only way to salvation, not your apron or you living a good and proper life. Your own ritual condemns the practice of freemasonry.

I sure this will not convince you. Unfortunately, like so many others you choose because of your experience, or tradition not to see. These things taken out of the context of the lodge that you trust would clearly be seen by any Christian for what they are--Occult. That you may not accept a certain writer does not mean that they don't speak the truth about freemasonry. By the way the above writers are not anti-masonry, what they wrote was to promote the lodge. Strange now that Christians who want to stay in the lodge, at the same time deny those who wrote for the lodge.

I genuinely pray that you will leave the lodge and put your time and life in Jesus and His service.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

(What did you say in your oaths as you went through the blue lodge?)

To promise to protect others even at the cost of my life this is what I said. I would think that my willingly ready to die before giving someone up to protect them from harm is something God would like.

(Can you even biblically say that you as a Christian are at liberty to take such oaths.)
An oath to protect yes I would think I could that that oath

(What was said to you as you received your apron?)

You mean the part that according the the SBC says that God requires everyone to be without sin to enter Heaven? Yes I remember that part thou there is nothing about salvation in it as the SBC pointed out and several non and anti masonic Pastors I asked said.

(How can that not be seen as anti-christian?)
I wonder how it could be seen as Anti Christ Christ clearly teaches that we must be cleansed of Sin before we can Enter Heaven how repeating this is Anti Christian I do not know

(Jesus is the only way to salvation)
I agree fully and according to the SBC Study they say the Lodge says Jesus is the way to Salvation.

(not your apron or you living a good and proper life.)
No where does Freemasonry say you can get into Heaven by works so not only do I agree with you Freemasonry does as well.

(Your own ritual condemns the practice of freemasonry.)

My Ritual according to the SBC promotes God as YHWH, God in the Threefold aspect of the Trinity and Salavtion thru the Lion of the Tribe of Judah(Jesus Christ) not really sure how this condimes Freemasonry.


(I sure this will not convince you)
Well you are right you really did not post anything. You just asked.

Dr. Gary Leazer a Christian writes for the Lodge. Have you read any of His work. The first masonic constition written in 1723 was written by a Christian Minister.

 

[Bro Tony]

Now it is a matter of honesty. You know that your three oaths in the blue lodge said more than what you said. You are good a revisionism. What did you say in the oaths. Again, biblically you are not at liberty to even take oaths, the Bible calls it a sin. Your unwillingness to be honest concerning what was said when you received your apron speaks volumes.

Finally, you have again revised the truth of what the SBC said about freemasonry. You need to tell the whole truth. Their conclusion was split down the middle, they said many tenets are not compatible with Christianity while others are. How much error must be involved before the whole is wrong. Did not Jesus answer that, "a little leaven, leavens the whole lump."

PS.. I have no respect for the spiritual discernment of Gary Leazer. I have read his responses after the conflict in the SBC. If he could look at the lodge and still join it, his biblical discernment and spiritual insight are not something I would want to investigate. He needs to be prayed for, not admired.

Again, if you men who are putting all your time and energy into the lodge would whole-heartedly follow Jesus, you would not have time for such folly. The lodge cannot add anything to what Jesus gives to His children.

Bro Tony

PSS- I knew this would get no where as you have no real desire to evaluate what your involved with honestly and biblically. That is typical of professing Christians who are in the lodge. I warn you with fear and trembling--Come out from among them.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Jere are two different web sites 'takes' on Freemasonry....

John Ankerberg's: http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/apologetics/AP0301W4.htm

and

The Assemblies of God: http://ag.org/top/beliefs/christian_character/charctr_16_secret_societie.cfm

CONCERNS:

Since the statement in the Assemblies of God bylaws on Secret Orders does not mention any organization by name, some have felt that their involvement in Masonry is not what the statement is about. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the original statement was drafted primarily because of concerns about Freemasonry. However, the official statement and the above reaffirmation apply not just to one organization, but to all organizations that make secrecy and oaths a part of their operation.

Referenced Constitution & Bylaws: http://ag.org/top/about/bylaws_08_10.cfm
(See Section 4 Membership in Secret Orders)

I am amazed that 'good Baptists' would rail so about the Catholic Church, or my own denom the Assemblies of God...

Yet 'welcome' or, at the most, wink at Free Masonry.

Here's the scenario a few well to do Free Masons join a church... Stay out of trouble and finally get elected as Deacons... Remaining Masons first, (that's part of the oath they take from what I've read and heard and if I am not mistaken it's a blood oath against themselves and their future generations.) Baptists second, and most likely not regenerate 'christians'...

Tell me how much of a 'chill' do you think that might have on true ministry.

The biggest problem is that people remember 'The Shriners Hospitals'... And, slough off the fact the the Mason's are occultic in practice.

But, **NO** amount of man's efforts at being good, honorable, and righteous can change the fact that without true sworn allegience to Christ as ONLY Lord first... There can be no salvation...

And, without salvation, no matter how good and logical it sounds, it can't be inspired by the Spirit of God in a leadership role...

I know it's hard to fight against all the good publicity... But... They need to get saved, first!

You can *NOT* serve two masters...

Either Jesus is Lord... Or, He isn't.

 

[Bro Tony]

SpiritualMadMan,

Thanks for your post, I like how the AOG phrased these reasons that no Christian should be involved in the societies. Christian men read and take great care to hear the voice of God's Spirit.

Secret societies are in conflict with the teachings of Holy Scripture. A Christian must never affiliate with any organization that 1) yokes together believers with unbelievers in unholy alliances (2 Cor. 6:14-18); 2) requires a pledge to unscriptural oaths which are sealed by using the name of God improperly or in vain (Ex. 20:7, Lev. 5:4-6, Matt. 5:34-37, James 5:12); 3) represents itself as providing teaching in harmony with the Bible when in fact it does not (2 Peter 3:16); 4) represents itself as being religious and offers a false hope of salvation through works, yet dishonors the only true God and our Savior the Lord Jesus Christ (John 17:3, 1 Tim. 2:3-6, Col. 2:8-10, Eph. 2:8,9).

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

(Now it is a matter of honesty. You know that your three oaths in the blue lodge said more than what you said. You are good a revisionism.)

I guess you do not know what I said than do you. Simply put I will help, add and assist any at the cost of my life if necessary. This is what is thought just as an Army recruit takes and Oath to protect His Land and its Ideals even at the cost of His Life. You my friend are the one who does not seem to want to present anything about it. I did no revising what I posted is the meaning of what I took an Oath to do to help add and assit even at the cost of my life if necessary.

Again you say that there is Heresy being taught in Freemasonry and again you fail to post it as I asked. Please post it so that I may address it.


As far a Mr. Leazer if you feel that way fine but at less do some research do not just go by what someone says. Check both sides the Pro and the Anti. Anyone who just goes to church and listens to the Preacher and does not check His sermon than they are following someone blindly.

(knew this would get no where as you have no real desire to evaluate what your involved with honestly and biblically. That is typical of professing Christians who are in the lodge. I warn you with fear and trembling--Come out from among them.)

You must post something for it to get somewhere all you did was acuse without any refrences or any Heresies you said the SBC said that Freemasonry taught. How am I to learn of them if you do not post them.


(Your unwillingness to be honest concerning what was said when you received your apron speaks volumes.)

I was being Honest it teaches God laid down a rule that you must be with out sin to enter Heaven. Think of it this way You are given a clean dirt Free Sheet at Birth God said in order for you to get to Heaven it must be Clean always. Freemasonry stops at that Point it presents the Rule God laid down. Christ fulfills the Meaning of the Rule by saying I payed the price for your cleaning Bill 2000yrs ago It is a Free Gift from Me to you, your cleaning Bill is paid. Now it is your choice to either accept the payment I made or try to clean it on your own.


(Remaining Masons first, (that's part of the oath they take from what I've read and heard and if I am not mistaken it's a blood oath against themselves and their future generations.) Baptists second, and most likely not regenerate 'christians'...)

Total and complete Lie! Mason's First duty is to God. No blood oath on His generations to come or on himself.

 

[Bro Tony]

JW,

Your assertion that the oath in freemasonry and the oath or affirmation taken by a soldier are the same, is a lie and an affront to those of us who served and affirmed our commitment to this country. You still have not stated the oath, but your bias and darkened understanding of it. Just say what it says, word for word and any discerning Christian can see that it is not of God.
By the way I served in the US Army and even then I did not take an oath. I affirmed or as the Bible teaches, "I let my yes be my yes..."

Your continuing to hide whst you said at your oaths and what was said when you received your apron speak volumes. Until you are willing to be honest, and I mean completely honest you are just speaking into the air alot of empty words. Which is common among those in the lodge. Just come out with it and let it stand on its own, then let it be evaluated by the light of Scripture, as all things should be. I know what you said in your oaths and I know what was said to you when you received your apron. I just waiting for one man of honor to be honest, I guess I will have to keep waiting.

Bro Tony

 

[Bro Tony]

(Remaining Masons first, (that's part of the oath they take from what I've read and heard and if I am not mistaken it's a blood oath against themselves and their future generations.) Baptists second, and most likely not regenerate 'christians'...)
This was not my quote, I would appreciate it when you are addressing me that you do not make it seem like I said something that I did not. Also, I will state again what I said about Gary Leazer. I read his material after the battle in the SBC, I did not say I read what someone else said about him. Please if your going to respond, at least respond to what I did say. Your lack of understanding in these simple post gives me a good indication of how you could have been so easily hoodwinked by the lodge (Do you remember that experience?)

Please open your eyes and come out of the lodge, I implore you!

Bro Tony

 

[Major B]

Oh, well, let me jump in here. As a former 3rd degree Mason and as the son, grandson, and great-grandson of men who were both 32nd degree Scottish Rite AND also worked up through the York Rite, let's lay some things out.

1. A Jew (or for that matter, anyone else who believes in a god of some kind) can belong to the Blue Lodge, and, can, in fact, move up through the degrees of the Scottish Rite. It is not required to believe in Christ.

2. A Mason swears an oath to protect a brother Mason in any crime except treason or murder, and that is up to the discretion of the Mason in question. The oaths of the first three degrees ( the only ones I worked through before I got saved and rejected this cult)ARE blood oaths, as the signs associated with them signify.

3. The 3rd Degree features a mock death and resurrection.

4. Masons in church power positions will use that power to further their friends and to attack pastors who have displeased their friends, no matter what the circumstances. The Masonic lodge in this area has effectively ended my pastoral ministry, and I absolutely did nothing to deserve that treatment except to preach too close to the totally Godless lifestyle of a prominent lodge member. [The funny thing is that when I condemned the idea of professing Christians regularly attending riverboat casinos, I had no idea this man was a regular attender.] The men who helped ruin my career knew nothing of the situation except that "brother so-and-so is against this preacher..."

5. I have personally heard Masons who were Sunday School teachers in Baptist churches, who denied the Trinity and who denied the exclusivity of salvation in Christ.

I would never pastor a church again who had any member of the lodge in any position of leadership, any more than I'd let a Mormon preach in my pulpit.

 

[O.F.F.]

Bravo Major B, Bravo!

Spoken like a true Ex-Mason for Jesus.

God bless you!

Mike

 

[Ben W]

Originally posted by O.F.F.:
Corey (Jacob Webber),


You need to ask yourself a question. Why is it that when you visit a Christian discussion board that has a topic on Freemasonry, it is always under a thread relating to the occult, cults, or other false religions. I challenge you to find me a Christian website that positively promotes the Masonic Order. If it were really Christian that should not be very hard to find.


A
Mike

Sorry Mike, when I read the post I misinterpreted what you said in your sentence where you posted "Why is it when you visit"

With Gnosticm in the Anti Freemasonry movement, consider it this way. When a Christian Freemason comes to you, do you or does the organisation advocate a prayer for a curse to be broken?

 

[Jacob Webber]

Bro Tony

You are the one saying Freemasonry teaches Heresy it is for you to post the Heresy being taught and yet a second time you did not. Where is the Heresy. Again it is your misinteruptation of the Apron Lecture that leads you to think something other than it is. I do not have to give something word for word if I can give the meaning behind it. Because for some they will twist it to be something it is not.



As far a Dr. Leazer I stated that you should not just believe what a man says you should read and research for your self.


9Your continuing to hide whst you said at your oaths and what was said when you received your apron speak volumes. Until you are willing to be honest, and I mean completely honest you are just speaking into the air alot of empty words)

I did not hide what I said I told you I would help, add and assit and kept my word even at the cost of my life. And yes telling someone that God can not alow sin in Heaven does speak volumes I am not sure what your problem is with that statement.

Major B

There is no resurrection in the Third Degree. As far as for number 4 than they are wrong But it in not because they were Masons there are those out there who are not Masons who will do the same thing. And number 5 holds no merit again it is there beliefs that they do not teach Trinity not because they are a Mason. Freemasonry according to the SBC says God in the Three fold aspect of the Trinity.

(I would never pastor a church again who had any member of the lodge in any position of leadership)

I am truely sad for those without Christ because you refused to Preach the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ to them because a Mason is a Sunday School Teacher. It is clear you do not agree with Freemasonry but if you are going to stop preaching the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ because of a Mason in your presence than my Friend you need to rethink your postion. Paul had people in the Church that was not doing according to Gods will and He did not back down He preached the Truth and yet you would not may I ask why?

And Mike I do not think I would apllaud a man who will not preach the Gospel when faced with opposing views.

I would rather be a Mason for Christ and Preach the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ who died on the Cross for all. He is the only way to Heaven. He is the second in the Trinity God the Son. All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. Jesus is the way the Truth and the Light. No one comes to the Father but thru the Son. He created the Universe around 6000yrs ago in 6 days He created it.