Have the "gifts of the spirit" ceased?

That makes since to me. I haven't seen it proven other wise fron the Word of God. Those are gift of the Spirit.To say the gifts have ceased....wouldn't that would be like saying the Spirit ceased, because they are the gifts of the Spirit? (1Cor 12:4-6)

1Cor.12:7~ But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

Music4Him

 

Your heart is in the right place, but you are making the common error of not understanding what a Spiritual Gift is. All of us have faith, but we do NOT all have the Gift of Faith. Spiritual Gifts are special empowerments given to individual believers to aid in their specific ministries to the Church and the world. We receive these when we are first saved and receive the Holy Spirit (which is NOT evidenced by speaking in Tongues, btw, but that's another topic). The Gift of Faith is a special ability to keep oneself and others around him/her focused on and trusting in God, even in very hard times. It's something beyond the general faith we all have, and as is the case with each individual gift, only a small percentage of all believers have it.
I don't mean to pick on you, but it's pointless to have a discussion on Spiritual Gifts if we don't all understand exactly what they are and are not.
God's peace be with you! </font>[/QUOTE]Hello.....and thank you because you made my day!Yes faith has been dealt to every man a measure (Rom.12:3)(its up to the man to use his faith just as it would be with all the gift of the Spirit if the man chooses). Heres another scripture (John 3:34) is that the same Spirit talked about in 1Cor 12?

The Gift of Faith is a special ability to keep oneself and others around him/her focused on and trusting in God, even in very hard times.
Well if thats your measuring stick ....then I can say I must have the 1Cor.12:9 gift of the Spirit faith then! God is good! All the time!

Music4Him

 

Amen Rosell~
I too have seen that sometimes happen and things get out there in left field too. I have never seen the animal imitating though. I have been filled with joy over flowing several times, this I wouldn't say has anything to do with speaking in tongues, but possible depression/oppresion being lifted off someone? (Anyone know if this is right?) A merry heart doeth good like a medicine ya know, but you are right that tongues need be done in line with what the scripture says.

So I stick with what the Word says.

Music4Him

 

The key word in basically every debate about spiritual gifts...EXPERIENCE.

The problem is that experience is not measurable, against Scripture, against other experiences, anything.

It is not my place to say what is still active and what isn't, but I do want to leave this to think about: How many do you know immediately received anything akin to what is described in the bible as spiritual gifts at conversion? (Excluding 'tongues' since anyone can, and most do, fake them )

The gifts of the Spirit are that, gifts. Not what you could do beforehand. How many of these do we see now? I think that the post that spoke of us as being too self-sufficient to allow God to move was right on the money.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Thanks Walguy, that was a very clear working of the Biblical teaching of Spiritual gifts. I have never seen a person arguing for Tongues or the Gift of Healing write anything that direct or clear. The reason being is that they are taking verses to prove their already established beliefs and not looking at what the Bible really says. When I studied Tongues, after being saved I had no feeling or belief either way. I started looking at it blindly so-to-speak and came to my conclusions based solely on what the Bible says. Not to say i didn't read commontaries or speak with other believers because I did. The person who lead me to Christ believed in Tongues, he didn't speak in them but believed they were a legitimate gift. Anyway, clearly, the Bible says what it says. Tongues were a sign that pointed to something and when that something came, in 70ad they faded away as Paul said they would. Healing and Miracles as gifts were to give the early church authority to preach. The church is established, God's word is complete and is now the authority by which we share the gospel, so healing and miracles as gifts have ceased. It is clear for those who take the time to study this. All other service gifts remain and are being used today to strengthen and grow the "body", locally and globally.

atestring, I don't think anyone here believes tongues ended when the Bible was complete, they ended before that when the people given the gift before 70ad died. You should have read Walguys post and you would have seen that he just answered what you said. DHK believes all the other gifts ended with the completion of the Bible. Walguy and I do not, though I respect DHK's view.

How about a direct refuting of Walguy's posts using scripture, not experience, to back your claim?

Johnv, If no one was present who spoke only the language that the tongue speaker was speaking in, then you did not see biblical tongues. The Bible only teaches that tongues are real languages and are needed for one to converse with someone who speaks a different language. It was very miraculous to speak fluently, in conversation, in a language you didn't know.

In Love and Truth,
Brian

 

I don't know why but the 70 A.D. argument seems so "full preterist" to me.
If it is that tongues were a sign for the unbelivers and it ened when "when it was pointing to that something and when it came in" (please clairify this "something" that you mentioned?) they faded out. This just don't make since. Has the gospel been preached all around the world? If not wouldn't we still need tongues and preachers, because of the unbelivers. What scriptures back up not needing the gift of tongues.


Music4Him

 

M4H, read Isaiah 28, that Paul references in 1 corinthians 14 and you will see that the foreign tongues were how God spoke to His people but they did not listen and were judged and scattered. When the scattering happened and Isreal lost her land, the sign pointing to that happening is no longer needed. Just like a "curve ahead" sign is not put after the curve.
Take care and have a great weekend,
In Christ,
Brian

 

Walguy said:
As a postscript, some believe that ALL the gifts ceased when the Bible was completed, but the I Corinthians 13 passage which they use as the proof text actually contradicts that idea too, as we have seen. In addition, 'the perfect' cannot refer merely to the completion of the Bible, because Paul goes on to tie our own understanding of God's truth to 'the perfect' in this context. The Bible is indeed perfect in itself, but obviously our understanding of it isn't, or we wouldn't be having all these theological arguments. We would all perfectly understand, and perfectly agree on everything. Unfortunately, even with a perfect Bible we are FAR from the perfect understanding Paul wrote of in verse 12. We are still seeing in a mirror dimly, and knowing only in part. Only when God's perfect eternal Kingdom finally arrives, and all believers have been given their eternal perfect bodies, will this passage be fulfilled.

I am one of those who belive that when Jesus comes agian and the eternal kingdom is here then everything will be perfect because we will be perfect in all understanding and knowledge. Until that day it seems that the gifts are still for today...the last days (as Paul was living and as we are living in today)

BTW, (becuse someone will probley ask it) I have no idea why not "all" who go to a faith healer are healed? I would just love to hear one preach the salvation message along with the message on healing and teach the people who really does the healing (i.e. God). I read post after post and see someone type in "Peter healed all who came to him" then in the next breath they will say God is the healer (indeed He is). I think theres also another problem that people have when going to a faith healer...and thats confusion.... because they belive its the faith healer that does the actual healing.

But the good news is that we have the bible now, and we have the knowledge to read it, and understand the part we read with the help of the Holy Ghost (of whom Jesus said he would send in the book of John).

Music4Him

 

Your problem is that you don't want to reconcile Apostolic times with modern day times. You are not ready to admit that The Book of The Acts of The Apostles, is just what it says--the Acts of the Apostles--not the Acts of Benny Hinn, Paul and Jan Crouch, Morris Cerullo, Music4Him, Tambourine Lady, or any other person living in this century. They are a record of the Acts of the Apostles. And thus we read:

Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Note the conditions:
1. There were multitudes--meaning many, many people.
2. Out of the cities (plural) round about Jerusalem.
3. The were bringing both sick and demon possessed people.
4. Every one of them (that means ALL of them) were healed.

Can these conditions be duplicated today, by anyone living today? The answer is no.
Does the Lord work this way in any person alive today? The answer is no?
God does not work in this fashion today. Any honest person will readily admit this. This being so, we can safely say that the gift of healing has ceased.
That does not mean that God does not heal; it means that God does not give this spiritual gift to anyone today. It has ceased. It is no longer needed today. It is not God's will for everyone to be healed.
The Bible says "we wait for the redemption of our bodies."
DHK

 

Hi All!

I was reading here. and I'd like to put my toe in the water.

I am not really interested in fighting about this subject. or arguing the subject.

I only want to bring the Word and dispell some misinterpreting of the Bible by the Baptist's...

Okay... passage that is wrongly misinterpreted...

Okay... first off. This version of the Bible is (KJV) is 393 Years old... Let's look at it in a version that's a bit more newer....:

As you see, this verse is referring to our KNOWLEDGE of the Word... Now, there are those that Believe that the KJV Bible is a "perfect" Bible... this is very untrue... first of the KJV Bible isn't the Inspired Word of God, it's a Copy.. The Inspiried Word of God was the Original Scrolls. Which aren't even around anymore... all we have is copies of copies... So, to say the KJV is perfect is just plain stupid.

want proof? Go get your KJV Bible... a Large print version is preferred... any word that is in ITALICS was a word added by the KJV translators to make the passage make sense. So, much for your "perfect" Bible... Most of the Italic words, started out as margin notes. added by the translators. and once that original word became obsolete, they would add the word to the scripture. So much for your perfect word. Further more, the KJV's final editor was a flaming calvinist, which makes the KJV Bible a Calvinist Version. Not only that, the first guy to translate the KJV, was a catholic! So, it has a Catholic Slant as well! and one of Members of the KJV Translating committe was a Drunk! and further more, King James was a closet Homosexual! (There are books to support this!)

Click here for more info on the King James Bible's errors and a full reproof of the King James Only Doctrine

More on King James's issues

Another Biased opinion from a KJVO site...

Okay... Back to the gifts!

There are scriptures that are cited by the Baptist's that they "Claim" say the gifts died off... these are easily dispelled...

Now, ANYONE who says that this is talking about anything else, than AGAPE Love is a biased Baptist who tries to make the Bible say things it's NOT saying, READ THE ENTIRE CHAPTER, it's talking about LOVE. Not the gifts at all!

Further more, Paul goes on to say to the church of Corinth...:

Notice He says, Forbid not???? Why would he say that, if it were going to die off and why would we have in cannonized Scripture???

Okay, Now before anyone accuses me of not playing by the rules and taking something outta context...:

Now, I ask you this... Here we have written instruction as to how were supposed to use the gifts... I ask you Baptist's WHY would God allow for this to become Cannonized Scripture, if it wasn't for today? You all say the Bible is the Inspired Word of God, Yet the Baptist's Reject the very notion that the Gifts are in existance today! trouble is, there is NO Scripture in the word of God ANYWHERE! that proves this BEYOND A Shadow of a Doubt! None Whatsoever! All there is, is Speulation by MEN, No Word whatsoever...

Further more, if this was the case, why did Peter say....:?

I suppose Peter was only kidding, right?

Face it Baptist's... your doctrine is wrong... and it's been proven, time and time again...

Blessings...

SeekingAfterHim



[ May 22, 2004, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: SeekingAfterHim ]

 

SeekingAfterHim, great post! Although, I'll have to say that not 'all' Baptists believe that the gifts have ceased...just a few.

MEE &lt;-----Not a Baptist!

 

Oh, I know this... although, the majority of them on this board do. and they're wrong.

 

Tongues are not for today. And the gift of tongues not only is not for today; it never was for women in the first century or in any century. They are not permitted to speak in the church at all--when it comes to tongues. If the churches kept just this one restriction, tongues would probably cease on their own.

Tongues are not for today. If they were there would be unbelieving Jews present in the church everytime they were spoken. The purpose for which tongues existed has been fulfilled. They were a sign to unbelieving Israel. The prophecy that Paul quotes in verse 21 is found in Isaiah 28. He is speaking about unbelieving Israel. Even though they will here tongues being spoken from the lips of other nations they still will not believe. That was the sign. Wherefore tongues was a sign to them that believe not--Israel. Does the nation of Israel attend your church?? Actually this prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D., when judgement fell upon the Jews for their unbelief. Thus tongues have ceased. They have fulfilled their purpose. They are no longer needed.

Why would God allow Himself to speak to Moses through a burning bush, if burning bushes are not for today?? The burning bush has become Canonized Scripture too. For that matter so has the serpent speaking to Eve in the garden. Have you spoken to any serpents lately? History is history.
DHK

 

Do you have *ANY* SOLID scriptural PROOF of this?

No.

All you have is MEN's Speculation. No SOLID PROOF, Just mere Speculation. and that's it.

Again, More of MEN'S Opinion and NO SOLID Scriptural Proof Whatsoever to back it up, give it up DHK, because you ain't gonna win this one, bud, I've got you out talked, out scripturally proven, and plainly exposed.

Ah, The Classic history cop out of the Baptist. again, I say, you all say the Bible is infallable, YET, you deny the word being totally for today.

again, I ASK for SOLID, SOLID, SOLID, SOLID PROOF THAT TONGUES CEASED... YOU CAN NOT GIVE ANY. YOU TRY AND TAKE SCRIPTURES OUT OF CONTEXT, BUT THE WORD IS FOR TODAY...

Try again DHK, Because you didn't sell any shoes here, babe.

-Seekingafterhim

 

Seekingafterhim, that was amost concise post.

A big and kudo's to you. But a word of warning, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.

God Bless you and yours,

Tam,

 

Tongues are not for today. And the gift of tongues not only is not for today; it never was for women in the first century or in any century. They are not permitted to speak in the church at all--when it comes to tongues. If the churches kept just this one restriction, tongues would probably cease on their own.
</font>[/QUOTE]~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Have you ever read the rest of that passage?

1Corinthians 14:36-40 ~ What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. 39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
Paul is answering a letter about questions the people of Corinth was asking.
You know my stand on women in the church that are of God. They have freedom as any man of the church as long as they are knowlegeable of the things of God, because men and women do not question the preacher who understand word of God. So I would think that the women in question were unlearned in the word and how the order in church was to be observed.

BTW, if there is something I don't understand, I have the Holy Ghost to help me to understand.
1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

BTW, I would assume this scripture would be for the ladies too?
Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Women were and are allowed to pray and prophsey in church....
1 Corinthians 11:5
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

....it is also clear in 1Cor. chapters 12-14 that women have spiritual gifts, and are encouraged to exercise them in the body of Christ.

Music4Him

 

SeekingAfterHim, would you mind sending me your e-mail address? I would like to ask you a private question. Label the subject 'Baptist Board' so I'll know it's from you.

MEE

 

Done.

 

Done. </font>[/QUOTE]I didn't get it!

MEE