Pope

Mioque's "obfuscation and misdirection" is "standard fare for Mioque" so far.

Let's dump the "fluff" in Mioque's response and "stick with the point".

#1. How many well known historians refer to YOUR city as "the city of 7 hills"?? Or was that just obfuscation and misdirection on your part?

The RC members here ALREADY say that the term "Babylon" as we see in 1Peter 5 was used by NT saints to refer to Rome. Now we see it in Rev 17 and "they" prefer not to see the connection. I understand why Catholics have that incentive to duck on that point. What is yours?

#2. When steaver makes the "obvious point" - why do you immediately want to attack "fundie baptist US-ian"?? Are you really in some dark corner some place where you think that only US Baptists continue to believe what the Reformers taught??

Really??

That dark??

In Christ,

Bob

 

The bottom line is that Pope John Paul II was a good man. I was really impressed by him when he met and prayed with his would be assassin. Pope John Paul II also forgave him, as Jesus wants us all to forgive. I would have felt honored to have met Pope John Paul II.

 

Bob
"What about the answer to the question above?"
"
Chick is now holding the minority position among baptists worldwide I suspect. In fact I suspect that most Calvinists, Zwinglians and Lutherans nowadays also left 'Chick's' position.

"#1. How many well known historians refer to YOUR city as "the city of 7 hills"?? Or was that just obfuscation and misdirection on your part?"
"
Outside of the Netherlands? None I think. Nijmegen isn't exactly an important city, even if it's 2000 years old.

"#2. When steaver makes the "obvious point" - why do you immediately want to attack "fundie baptist US-ian"?? Are you really in some dark corner some place where you think that only US Baptists continue to believe what the Reformers taught??"
"
Yes. More complex answer, your/his position is declining. I think this is because it was a somewhat politically motivated position in the first place and the political strain that caused it has in large part disappeared. You think it is because the Endtimes are happening right now.

And the late pope happened to agree with me
on the meaning of the word vicar. You see I read that book as well.

In closing.

NEVER EVER use the words "in Christ" when adressing me in one of your posts again.
Save that for when you actually mean it.

 

steaver
You believe in the pre-trib rapture don't you?
So ofcourse you do.

And don't end all of your posts with "God Bless!" it won't take long before it will be perceived as a meaningless gesture, Steaver's little quirk at the end of his posts.
Only use it when it has some real significance.

 

Rachel

Many Christians believe that Jews will go to Heaven ... of course, I do as well - BUT ONLY THROUGH JESUS... and I think that may cut their numbers down a little bit.

 

So in the opinion pole of "Mioque suspects" -- the Baptists and protestants are LEAVING the somewhat negative views the REFORMERs actually had of the HISTORIC RCC..

A truly interesting "suspicion" Mioque! Apparently you also "suspect" that only "Fundie Baptist Americans" would "stick with the reformation's views on Catholicism" from your slam at Steaver for agreeing with them.


You seek to obfuscate the "indicator John gives in Rev 17" regarding the city of 7 hills by claimining that your town IS ALSO known by that name - so I go to the "Salient point"...

"#1. How many well known historians refer to YOUR city as "the city of 7 hills"?? Or was that just obfuscation and misdirection on your part?"


And then you "fess up" with this answer ...

So in fact - it was a "rabbit trail" on your part - equivocating between ROME identified as the city of 7 hills by people in all of western civilization -- vs your little "nijmegen".

I see. How "predictable".


Getting back to your view above where you think the reformeers have been abandoned by the Protestants and Baptists - and now nobody remembers the role the RCC has been given in scripture (or at least they politely deny what the reformers knew about it.)


"#2. When steaver makes the "obvious point" - why do you immediately want to attack "fundie baptist US-ian"?? Are you really in some dark corner some place where you think that only US Baptists continue to believe what the Reformers taught??"

Good - accurate - efficient answer.

It is indeed your position.

I see - more "Mioque-I-think" and "Mioque-suspects" as the "data" and "substance" for your views.

Fascinating.

That is a pretty interesting corner you occupy, I must say.

I on the other hand think that Christians are not as Bible and history illiterate as you ... presume.

Obfuscation - the quote stands. The "in place of quote" is IN the text.

So also is "representative of the SON OF GOD" where "vicar" is the equivalent of "representative".

Even more fascinating in my view.

One great idea after another in your case today Mioque.

I can not wait to see what you "suspect" next, what you "recommend" next and what you conclude as an "I-think".

As you have said - you are hoping that that it is true that Christians are moving away from the reformers positions and "As it turns out" you musings on that point are not entirely accurate.

Thank God.

In Christ,

Bob

 

</font>[/QUOTE]It is so great that the interview with the Pope should have included those words and then was published to the world in that exact form.

Clearly - the reader can "see" what the text says.

I wander what creative way will be found to "cover" for the quote THEY choose.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Diane and DHK, to answer the question you posed about 100 years ago as to why Catholics should pray for the Pope if he's the Vicar of Christ, my understanding of Catholic teaching on the subject (please note this is not my own view but I'm merely parroting what I think the Catholic POV is) is that one distinguishes between the OFFICE of Pope and the PERSON occupying that office. It is the office which is the 'Vicar of Christ' and which Catholics view in certain circumstances as infallible and the person - fallible, frail, sinful etc - for whom they pray. I think that's how Catholics explain how some of the Renaissance Popes' characters were - ahem - less than holy, but that the Petrine office remains unsullied. That's my understanding of the teaching, although I disagree with it.

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Steaver
"I heard them say on tv that he is already being called John Paul the Great! That this is usually reserved for catholics who reach "sainthood" after death."
"
Practically no saint is called the Great. Those RC saints that have that title were great kings, or great popes as well as being saints. If Wojtyla goes down in history as JPII the Great he will be only the third pope in history to get that title (after Greg&Leo). There are on the other hand dozens of popes that got declared a saint after their deaths. Some of them were lousy popes (Pius X comes to mind).

"I am sorry mioque. I sincerely want God to bless everyone and the little guy with the big thumb I just always thought was cute."
"
I like the thumbguy as well. But by ending every single post no matter what the subject with God Bless it starts to lose some of it's significance after a while.

Bob
Still following your false prophetess I see.
Yes I know, not a very profound argument. But I've known you for a couple of years now and when it comes to stuff that might contradict SDA orthodoxy no evidence in Heaven or on earth makes any impression on you....

 

Even if that were true Matt, they are already considering this Pope to be canonized for sainthood. So why would they be concerned for his "eternal welfare," by praying "for" him. The bishop here prayed specifically for the "repose of his soul."
When I die I know I will "enter into is rest."
I will be safe in the arms of Jesus.
I will be with the Lord.

The Catholic Church has no such assurance even for a Pope that they are considering elevating to sainthood.
DHK

 

I was referring to the pre-death prayers; they were praying for Karol Wojtyla the man not John Paul II the Pope, as it were. Wouldn't you want people praying for you on your deathbed? I know I would - if nothing else than for a death that was a good witness to others for the Gospel and, if possible, not too uncomfortable.

Now prayers post-death are another matter...and probably another thread!

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

In my original post I was referring to the prayers after his death. I can relate to the prayers before his death, as many of them were praying that God would heal him, extend his life, give him a painless death, etc., etc., That was easy enough to see. But the prayers after he was already dead is what I was referring to.
DHK

 

If thousands were crying over any other religious leader in the world, and saying things such as, "I fear for the world without his leadership" as I saw one young saying on TV, and glorifying him as they have the Pope this weekend, then all the followers would be labelled as part of a cult.

As for me, I'll always remember a man who did next to nothing when children were being abused by the priests who answered to him. Then stated that those priests were not as bad as those who remarry after divorce.

 

I may not agree with Bob Ryan, but when it comes to the sexscandal I will agree with RockRambler.

 

Hmm lets see. I quote someone who DID an interview WITH the Pope AND published it.

And you quote.... now let me see - I believe that was... OH YES - you quote YOU!

And you call this "all the evidence in Heaven and earth"!! You truly are living in a dark Corner Mioque.

Step into the light.

In Christ,

Bob