Freemasonry vs. Christianity

Apparently this board is willing to give the benefit of the doubt as long as I stay on topic. For certain, they have no desire to allow ad hominem debates. Were I to engage you in this, my posts would be deleted. As I already stated, the entire exercise was not an attempt to deceive anyone but you, and even then only as a parody of the same behavior (posting others' material without citation, by permission) on your part (for which I notice you never apologized either). I notice you still continue the practice even now, with the use of Larry Kunk's material above, without reference.

I have not done one single thing you have not done. Since the playing floor appears to have evened, may I suggest if you have a response to what I posted on topic, then post a response. If not, then find some other approach than character assassination.

The Worm

(P.S.--and you can leave the "Rev" out of this. I may quote a lot of the material he does and use the same arguments, but I do my own stuff.) </font>[/QUOTE]This is GINA L. , not Helen. (I'm at her house, she's signed in and I'm not so this is easier)

Give you the benefit of the doubt TW? What doubt? You lied and it was proven, and you bragged about your deceit on other boards.
Have you no sense of decency, no sense of shame that you would behave so horridly and then continue to speak as if we should trust and believe you after all that?
I did request that you be permitted to post because as I've stated before, you've done more to prove Masonry as deceitful when you used deceit in an attempt to prove it not deceitful.
But, enough is enough. Hopefully one day you'll look back on this situation and thank me for stopping it!
Please TW, try to understand that goodness begets goodness. The fact that you felt you have to be deceitful to prove what you thought was good is a BIG sign that what you're trying to prove is anything but good.
Gina

 

Mike
Why do you take pleasure in the downfall of others. How does this help The Worm to try to do better were have you encouraged The Worm and lifted Her in your prays.

(Your Reputation is what men think you are; you Character is what God knows your are)

Mike I know alot of people do not think highly of you. But how do you think God feels about you when you tell one of His childern that you feel they do not belong to Him. You do not know the relationship between these people and God.

 

Mike
You have not address my post you simply blew them off. I gave you clear refrences to Christ from Freemasonry. And you still seem to want to over look it for some reason. I gave Masonic Text that supports it.

I am not saying Freemasonry is Christian. It is not a Christian Frat althou it was a Christian only Frat to begin with do your reseach and you will see.

I can give you countless refrences to Christ and to YHWH. You simply will not accept them because it does not suit your cause.

The God in the Ritual is YHWH(FreeMasonry)(Christianty)

God in the Threefold aspect of the Trinity in Freemasonry(FreeMasonry)(Christianty)

Lion of the Tribe of Judah is in Freemasonry(FreeMasonry)(Christianty)

The Star represents the Star that showed the place of our Saviors Birth (FreeMasonry)(Christianty)

Knights Templar completes the Blue Lodge you must be a Christian and profess a Faith in Jesus Christ to Jion.

It is said that the Blue Lodge is like a half sung song with out the York Rite to complete it. If the York Rite Completes the Blue Lodge than it most certainly has Christian Teaches in it. And the symbols there in point to God and the Messiah.

 

(What you think is of God is a counterfeit gospel. When you honestly consider the vast preponderance of evidence that proves Freemasonry is not of God, you will repent, resigned from the Lodge and renounce its teachings. Until then, I will pray that you stop rebelling against God and deceiving yourself in this matter.)

First lets look at a few things Freemaosnry teaches. Charity, Brotherly Love, YHWH created the Universe and the Earth in 6 days, Jesus Christ is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah this are just a few I have seen in Freemasonry that clearly point to Christ. Yet you will refuse them once again.

Post the incompatablities of Freemaosnry for us again.

 

Jacob, you said

There is rejoicing when light overcomes darkness. TW was spreading untruth, and continued the lie even after it was revealed, until it was literally impossible to deny it any longer. At that point he/she was not repentant of this wickedness, but reveled in the deceit and cunning used to give others the runaround.
Yes, I am pleased that the truth was revealed to us, and that untruth will always be overcome at some point in time.
While we can and should pray for our enemies, we should not tolerate these wolves within the flock.
Is TW a Christian? True, it is only 100% known between him/her and God, but that is no reason accept one into the fold and allow them free reign when their fruits show the opposite. We are to protect one another from falseness. Are lies and deceit the fruits of believers? We all may sin, but the continued and unrepentant lies and deceit in this case were very untypical of one who truly wishes to love Christ with us, and further the spiritual well being of the body of believers.
You may choose to disagree with what I have stated, but please ponder it first and compare it's truth with scripture before making your final decision on how you will receive it.
Gina

 

I must agree with Gina here. I have noticed in the different forums particularly on this issue and the issue of Bible versions that people will not call into accountablity those who agree with them on their pet issues. If someone is wrong in their actions, if they are being deceitful, though they agree with me on an issue, they need to be brought to a place of correction. As a matter of fact, when that kind of correction happens from someone in the same camp, it actually adds credibility to the people dealing with the issue.

In other words just because someone agrees with me concerning the issue of freemasonry, that does not give them the right to be deceitful. And if I know them to be such, I should be the first to lovingly bring them to accountability.

Bro Tony

 

Gina, Bro Tony

Do you think Christ rejoices when one of His Childern stumble. Does Christ applauded at this stumbling. Of course not Christ offers encouragement not demeaning a person. Encouraging each other is what we need to do, we can point out our faults but do not take pleasure in ones faults being pointed out.

Mike has called me a few things and yet you do not point them out to him. I have and have presented that I wish Him to be a good Christian and lead others to Christ. I do not take pleasure in Mike telling lies or when he gets caught in them or any other act. To be repentive is to change your actions. The Worm has acknoledge what happened and why she do it. I do not know if sh agreed it was right or wrong. But Mike has done the same thing on other boards and yet contuines to lie about Freemasonry.

I know for fact that Christ is mentioned in Freemasonry. I have presented it as such.

 

Mr. Webber, I really struggle with your attempts to present TW as a Christian. He/she did not present him/herself as such.
Perhaps you missed his/her own admission and gloating elsewhere about his/her transgressions.
If Mike lies and deceives that is also not good, but so far what I've seen is Mike presenting the truth of the Bible and the falseness that FreeMasonry can twist into it.
Christ is mentioned in a number of cults and false religions. Mormonism gives Christ an important role in our lives, and claims to be a very Christ oriented religion. Is it? No. Example upon example of such is in existance.
Yes, TW has acknowledged his/her deceit and lies, but has made excuses for them, gloated about them, attempted to make it look as if the moderators of this board were in agreement with her actions, and so on.
If you know of Mike also behaving in such fashion, point it out, give specific examples and links that TRULY show it to be the case, and confront him. You have that as an obligation.

Mr. Webber, the issue here was not simply a problem with expressing belief or unbelief in Freemasonry. As you can see, you and others have been allowed to freely post your pro Masonic views and disagreements with others on the subject without being "subject" to editing or banning. I'm sure you can see the point being made here.

Anyhow, let's please get back to the topic. It probably isn't very proper to continue to discuss a person when they do not have the benefit of speaking for themselves in response.

Gina

 

Gina
First I am not trying to present TW as a Christian. That is between her and God. I am all for contuining the debate but Mike keeps stepping in calling TW a Liar and personally attacking without addressing the issues and getting the topic off.

Let us contuine with the topic.

I will make the following statement you tell me if it is true.

I have a clean spottless White Shirt this Shirt was given to me to remind. That like my shirt I must be spotless and with out sin to Enter Heaven.

Is the above statement True or False

 

The above statement is false.
You must be PRESENTED spotless and without sin to the Father, by the Son, to enter into eternal life. None of us are spotless and with out sin except that we be presented as such through through through the Son.
I am not aware of qualifications that would allow one entry into heaven. I'd assume that if Satan can enter God's presence and converse with him, anything's possible. I don't know how those things work. If you do please enlighten me.
Gina

 

Gina
The above statement says you must be without sin to Enter Heaven that is not a false Statement. Christ Cleanses us of Our sin and makes us pure before God.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

Because of sin we can not enter Heaven until we are made perfect by the Blood of Christ.

 

(That apron reminds ALL Masons, whether they are Christians or not, that it is NOT Jesus and His imputed righteousness that gets one to heaven; it is ones own personal righteousness. Jacob, how “spotless” does a pagan have to be to enter the kingdom of God?)

Not True it is a simple statement that you must be without sin to enter Heaven. And as the Lamb Skin states there must be no sin. Latter on you find that Faith in the Merits of the Lion of the Tribe of Judah(Jesus Christ) refrence Masonic Bible

(In the Great Light we read: "The kingdom of heaven is within you." All that is required is to remove the roughness, the excrescences, "divesting our hearts and consciences of the vices and superfluities of life" to show forth the perfect man and Mason and to find the kingdom within. Handbook for Candidates Coaches, Committee on Ritual, Grand Lodge of California, P. 16.)


Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

The Great Light is the Holy Bible from which the statement comes who do you think it is talking about.


(Then, finally my brethren, let us imitate our Grand Master, Hiram Abiff, in his virtuous conduct, his unfeigned piety to God, and his inflexible fidelity to his trust; that, like him, we may welcome the grim tyrant, Death, and receive him as a kind messenger sent by our Supreme Grand Master, to translate us from this imperfect to that all-perfect, glorious, and celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides. Masonic Ritual Similar to p. 152, Kentucky Monitor)

You left out part of it Mike the part about the Lion. And Hiram is not the Savior of Freemaosnry He is a man who is dead


(The Meaning of Masonry, Lynn Perkins, page 95)

As far as this I have never read it but I am sure there is more than one paragraph in 95 pages have you read it Mike.

Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior (Knights Templar) York Rite Freemasonry

 

Jacob,

I must answer your inquiry. I know you are back on topic so I will answer quickly and not bring it up again.

It brings me no joy to see anyone in sin. That being said one thing I cannot tolerate is a liar. The person to which you have referred was found to be a liar, which is an abomination to the Lord. He/she could have come here like you have and presented their case and we could have dealt with it and gone on, but he/she decided to deceive. And when found out refused to confess the sin and repent.

As far as what Mike has posted to the issue of freemasonry. You see it as a lie because he disagrees with you. I disagree with you also, but I have not lied to you. You have disagreed with me, and as far as I know you have not lied to me. You have been truthful as to your beliefs. I do not call you a liar, but I do genuinely believe you are following the lie of freemasonry. There is no reason for a man to be in freemasonry if he is fully serving the Lord in His Church.

We disagree and it has become apparent that your mind cannot be changed and so we go in circles. We clearly have two different views of what is and what is not compadible with Christianity. You will be in my prayers for the day to come when you will leave the lodge.

Bro Tony

 

Oh By The Way,

Thank you all for praying for my family and me as my father had his stroke. Things are some better, but we are putting in a lot of hours caring for him. God is good and we are seeing improvement everyday.

Bro Tony

 

Mike
Goto the TN GrandLodge Home page goto the FAQ and there is a statement that Clearly says Freemaosnry can not get you into Heaven. That is a Grand Lodge Statement. That should be sufficent for you. Below is a quote from the Grand Lodge of TN

(39. Do Masons believe that by doing good works they can gain admittance to heaven?


No. The admittance into heaven falls in the realm of the spiritual, not the fraternal.)


The refrences earlier concerning Lion of the Tribe of Judah comes from a Masonic Bible.


Bro Tony
I am glad you family is doing better we will contuine to pray for them.

 

From the Knights Templar Website:

Christmas
Every Commandery is encouraged to hold a Public Christmas Observance in December. This is a joyous occasion to celebrate the birth of the Savior of Mankind. This service may be held on any day of the week and need not be at the time of meeting of the Commandery.


Concerning Easter
(Easter is a hallowed day in the Templar calendar. Marking as it does the resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, Easter represents the summit of all hopes of our Christian Faith. The Grand Encampment especially encourages every Sir Knight to attend the church of his choice on that great day in celebrating the great victory of Christ over death.

The official Easter Sunrise Service sponsored by the Grand Encampment is held each year on the steps of the George Washington National Masonic Memorial in Alexandria, VA. The public is most welcome. The starting time is 7:00 a.m. when the Sir Knights in full Templar uniform march up the hill to the strains of "Onward Christian Soldiers".)