Oneness Vs. Trinity Debate

I can see that. Sorry, but the fact that my answer was biblical and the fact that you had absolutely no answer, still is and will be the focus.

So tell me what did God mean when he said us and our? If you have no answer, then drop it and move on.

As do the Oneness Pentecostals. They not only take verses out of context, they expect you to ignore important passages in the Bible and just take their word for it.

Don't be so quick to criticize when it is your interpretation that expects us to take your word for it when tough scriptures come into play.

That is your opinion, not fact. The fact still remains, I have an answer and you have none.

Ok, in instance one, you admitted that you had no answer.

You have not responded at all to the question that asks whether Jesus is the name of God or an attribute of God. Did you miss that post altogether?

What questions are your referring to. The one where you asked me several times when in fact, I had answered it the very first time it was asked?

This conversation is indeed over if this is your attitude. You do this in every conversation. You turn the discussion around always making us defend our view, yet you never answer the questions that really shed light on your theology. If you can't handle the tough questions, then stay out of the discussion. If you are going to start a debate on the topic, then at least have the coutresy to answer as well as ask questions.

That is because your side is seriously flawed. The fact that you can not answer many of the tough questions that we ask confirms this very aspect. I am sorry, my Bible doesn't tell me to try and see every man's side. My Bible says there is but one gospel and we are to defend it boldly without shame. If you want me to see your side, then prove it without expecting me to just accept that there are many questions that your belief simply can not answer.

In debates, there is usually a time for a rebuttal. If you didn't want it opened up to the public to be able to do so, then why did you ask for it to be done?

The reason we rebut what you have to say is because it needs to be done.

Now do tell me, why do you keep rebutting our statements? Surely it isn't because you agree with us! You are just mad that our rebuttals prove seriously flaws with your theology. To be mad at someone for rebutting something when they are in a debate is just plain silly.

So in debates one is expected to admit that he doesn't know the material well enough to even bother debating it in the first place?

Do I understand everything? NO. Do I need to understand everything before I can make a fair judgement that your arguments are lacking and not biblical? NO.

When backed into a corner, it is always the same cry. Well, I don't really know, I will study it further. Then you keep on arguing anyway. The problem is, you really don't study it further. You come back with another thread with the same arguments as before, still not being able to answer the questions you couldn't answer before.

If you need to study it further, then by all means do so. It would be great if the next time you discussed this issue you could show scripturally what Gen 1:26 means. It would be great how if you could explain how there are two witnesses to Christ if Christ and the Father are not separate. We would love to finally hear some answers.

~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]

Lorelie, as Chemitz would say, "You are grasping at straws" with your explination on what the "Us" is referring to. It makes NO since.

I will retract my previous statement since you cant understand what I was saying. I was trying to give you a little bit of credit for trying to use the bible. NOt that it supported what you said.

So your answer is not biblical

NOw please tell me who the trinity was speaking to in Gen 1:26.

Either except the fact that you dont know and say so, or give me the forth person who the trinity was speaking to.

I am not sure what it is referring to. Although biblicaly I have given you several ideas on which it could be referring to. But on the other hand I have given you enough proof that would take away from the fact of "Persons". There is NO SUCH THING. You cant proove it biblically and you cant proove it theoretically ..

No what still remains is that you have one possibility that cant be reasoned with the rest of scripture. And I have given you about 4 that can.

Lets get past the baby stuff Lorelei. Its just childish to say "Im not going to answer your question b/c you did not answer mine."

My answer was I dont have an answer YET.

So now that we are sucking thumbs and begging mommy for milk. What are your answers?

Jesus is the Name of God.

IM not going to argue with you so i will say this. If you have asked me a question, unless I just get carried away talking about something else and forget to answer it Im sorry. That is what we call a mistake.

And if i dont know the answer I will tell you b/c i dont know everything. But one thing I do know is that you cant prove there is a Trinity.

Yes the bible says there is but one Gospel. So what is it? Is it a Trinity? Is it three people up there haveing a conversation? What is it, please explain to me what the Gospel is.

In a nut shell the Gospel is the Death burial and ressurection of our Lord. Its not that God loved us so much that he sent another person to come die for us. What kind of love is that? Its that he loved us so much that he came down here and died for us himself. (I John 3:16, John 3:16)

The bible says that we need to obey the Gospel or we will be punished. How do we obey it Lorelie? I commend you for standing up for your Gospel, but its our lords Gospel that you should stand up for.

God bless

[ September 11, 2002, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: ONENESS ]

 

~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]And you cant even tell me who the trinity is talking to.

What a bummer

 

~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]Do you want me to reply to anything?

You interpret that the "Father" talking to the Son. It does not say the Father, and it does not say the son. It say GOD said. Now If God is a Trinity than the trinity was speaking to some fourth person.

And I am still waiting on you to tell me who that fouth person was.

 

Interesting since your prooftext says He sent His Son. Jn 3:16-21 "16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God.”

and just after the first prooftext is says that the one commandment is that we believe in His Son. 1 Jn 3:20-23 "20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us." If they were the same person why didn't He command us to believe in Him instead of telling us to believe in His son?</font>[/QUOTE]

You misquoted John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Do you believe the Son was eternally begotten?

I John 3:16 and John 3:16 are telling us the exact same thing. The exact same person came down on Earth as a Man and Gave his life for our sins. He did not come down as a seperate Person but he came down and revealed him self through the flesh, which is called the Son of God.

 

There was no fourth person how many times do you need to be told that. They were conversing to each other.

BTW in Jn 17 it is the Son praying to the Father.</font>[/QUOTE]Chemitz, how do you know they were talking to each other? The bible said that God created the Heaves Alone

Your definition of God is a Trinity. One God but three Persons.

So if "God" said Let "Us" make man in Our image, than the three person God was talking to someone else. There was someone besides God that was there.

So please tell me who the forth person was.