Islam and Pedophilia

One of the amazing facts about Islam is how widespread pedophilia is accepted as a common practice in the Islamic world. It all started with the prophet Muhammad and his child bride Aisha.

We read the following from Sahih Bukahari, vol. 5, bk. 63, no. 3894, "Narrated Aisha: My marriage (wedding) contract with the Prophet was written when I was girl of six (year)...My mother, Umm Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became normal, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."

"Narrated Urwa: 'The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years."

What does the Qur'an say about child brides. Well in Sura 65:4 it says this about the rules for divorce: "The same shall apply to those who have not yet menstruated."

What prospects do you think prepubescent divorcees had/have?

What do Islamic apologists say about the subject? What I could find is a large range of opinions. This site, http://www.submission.org/women/Aisha.html states that the "source of the above information can only be the Hadiths books which are nothing but lies attributed to prophet Muhammad. It has no support in Quran. " This ignores the fact that the Hadith books are accepted by the vast majority of Islamic people.

The site leaves itself an out though as far as what age is acceptable however when they go on to state, "As we all know maturity varies from one continent to another, from the hot countries to the cold ones, from one sex to another, and from one civilization to another. God knows that and he deliberately and out of His mercy, did not put an age rule for us. He left it for every community to decide while following the general rules of maturity supplied in the Quran."

Clearly the Qur'an allows for the divorce of prebubescent wives and their marriages are common throughout the Islamic world.

This site, http://www.muslim-answers.org/aishah.htm doesn't deny Aisha was 9 but proudly defends the fact. They say that "At this point, it should be mentioned that it is absolutely pointless from an Islamic standpoint to say that the age of 'Aishah is "not found in the Qur'an", since the textual sources of Islam are made up of BOTH the Qur'an and the Sunnah (Hadith) - and the Qur'an tells us that."

They go on to state "This evidence having been established, there doesn't seem much room for debate about 'Aishah's age amongst believing Muslims. Until someone proves that in the Arabic language "nine years old" means something other than "nine years old", then we should all be firm in our belief that she was "nine years old"

They go on to attack Christians as being hypocritical for criticizing Muhammed for consumating his marriage with his 9 year old bride. It gets a little old after a couple thousand words.

Let's look at today. The Ayatollah Khomeini at 28 married a ten year old. She became pregnant and had a miscarriage at age 11. Khomeini taught that marriage to a girl before her first menstrual period was "a divine blessing." My source for Khomeini and his child bride is Robert Spencer, a leader in the Christian-Islamic Forum for the past 20 years, in his excellent book "Islam Unveiled." The original source is Amir Taheri, prominent Iranian journalist in exile, who wrote the definitive biography of Khomeini, "The Spirit of Allah." The legal age for a girl to marry in Iran is 9.

UNICEF reports that as many as 50% of all girls are married in Bangladesh and Afghanistan by the age of 13. This is prevalent throughout the Islamic world.

Andrew Bushnell reported in March of 2002 that "in Egypt 29% of married adolescents have been beaten by their husbands; of those, 41 % were beaten during pregnancy. A study in Jordan indicated that 26% of reported cases of domestic violence were committed against wives under 18."

Lisa Beyer of Time magazine in November 2001 reported that the practice of marrying adolescents in Islamic countries, "has occasionally been exploited by pedophiles, who marry poor young girls from the provinces, use and then abandon them."

[ February 06, 2003, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: Will ]

 

Johnv,

Are you saying that there is no difference in this area between Islam and Christianity?

Are Muhammed and Jesus comparable here?

Are the Bible and the Qur'an comparable here?

Are the teachings of Christianity and Islam similar at all?

How do you know Mary was likely married at 13?

Don't we know and isn't it acknowledged by the vast majority of Islamic adherents that Muhammed consumated his marriage with a 9 year old?

As I have shown this is compatible with Islamic teachings, can you show where it is compatible with Christian teachings?

You wrote,

>Generally, it seems that as countries move out of third wirld status, they tend to abandon pracrices such as these. Islam in the US and Canada, for example, don't adhere to this practice, even though many states allow the marriage of minors with parental consent.<

Didn't you read the quote and link I posted to a U.S. based Islamic apologist site that says it's up to the individual person to judge when the age is appropriate for marriage?

 

Please provide some proof that it was the common Jewish practice to marry at 13.

You are glossing over the fact that it was their "Prophet" who married a 9 year old. This provides millions of Islamic followers justification to continue the practice today. I do chastise Solomon for having a village of wives and concubines and the bible points out how this sin helped lead to his downfall.

As the links I provided have shown it is compatible with American Islamic beliefs. They are constrained by American Law and the fact that they are a minority in this country. Everywhere they have become a majority in a country this always leads to their theocratic law being enacted. Why would we think they would act any differently if they became a majority here?

There is no justification from Jesus for this practice. There is justification from Muhammed for this practice.

In the case of Muhammed we aren't just talking about under 18 we are talking about 9. Even in the areas where early marriages were accepted, sleeping with 9 years olds was never accepted. Muhammed was a pedophile. Their "Prophet" they follow was a pedophile. Our savior we follow was beyond reproach.

There is no provision for divorcing prepubescent wives in the bible. There is a provision for divorcing prepubescent wives in the Qur'an.

There is no provision for striking your wife in the Bible. There is a provision for striking your wife in the Qur'an.

 

One more thing. Then what is your purpose? I didn't originally bring up a comparison between Christianity and Islam, you did. I respond back showing the differences and you claim I am trying now to "bait" you.

How is this possible when you started this line of discussion? If you aren't defending Islam then what are you doing? And aren't you trying to bring Christianity down to their level when you claim that Christianity and Judaism went through this problem as well (something I dispute.) What else could your purpose be?

What was your intent for comparing the two?

 

You make the claim that the information I posted resembles Nazi party literature. Which part? The stories from Time Magazine, the reports from UNICEF, the quotes from the Qur'an, the quotes from the Islamic Hadith, or the links to Islamic apologetic sites?

Grow up. Learn to deal with the facts instead of trying to censor information by comparing them to Nazi information. If anyone's techniques resemble Nazis it is yours in your attempt to silence facts you can't answer.

The problem this thread addresses and deals with is the very real abuse and exploitation of young females in the Islamic world. Hiding from the truth does nothing to promote a cure, it accomplishes just the opposite.

Your call for censorship is odd. When has it worked?

Should we censor UNICEF who I quoted as well? The evidence they offer of this abuse is much more extreme then what I have pointed out.

To blame the truth being discussed for other crimes is absurd.

[edited to remove profanity from quote]

[ February 04, 2003, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: Clint Kritzer ]

 

End of story.

Net. [/qb][/QUOTE]Well gee if Netcurtains3 says so, it must be. Give me a break. This is what pre-teenage boys on the internet do when they can't answer an intellectual challenge they call them names.

Nice Netcurtains3. Is this an effective way to silence facts you find inconvenient, by calling someone the most offensive name you can paint them with like a pouty child?

When you come on an adult board please attempt to act like an adult.

[ February 04, 2003, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Jim1999 ]

 

No, I am not kidding you can question my education all that you want. I presented factual evidence that Muhammed, their great “Prophet” consummated his marriage with his 9 year old bride. You then made the rather bold assertion that Mary was probably married by 13. Please provide proof, what I learned in college is that incredulity is not proof.

And as I have stated this is due to the fact that they are a minority and are constrained by law. In countries where they are a majority, Islamic law applies and children are taken as brides.

Where was the official status of concubinage sanctioned in the Bible? I’ll be interested to hear the scriptural basis. The Qur’an on the otherhand does provide a basis and sanction for not only polygamy but also for temporary wives. Which allows men to "marry" women for as little as one hour and then divorce these women. This is of course another way to sanction prostitution. Many of these "temporary" wives now were child brides that were abandoned by their husbands.

Where does the Bible state that David’s multiple wives and concubines were a gift from God? Certainly not in 2 Samuel 12:7-8.

You seem to be confusing the Bible reporting a practice with sanction. This is never more clear then in the book of Ecclesiastes. Far from applauding Solomon and his multiple wives, we are taught the emptiness of that life. The Qur'an on the otherhand openly endorses these activities.

Now its time for me to ask you your own words, "You're kidding, aren't you? Didn't you ever study world history and cultures in high school or college?" Why should we anticipate this (additional democracies?)

Middle East scholar Bernard Lewis using political scientist Samuel P. Huntington’s criteria for what makes a democratic state, finds that out of the 53 Islamic states only one has a “troubled” democracy. There were 2 now there is one, far from the trend you predict. One that is troubled out of 53 (less then 2%), hardly the basis for optimism.

The rise of the Islamic theocratic groups in Turkey, the Nurcus, the Suleymancis, the Nurs and the Fethullah Gulens threaten this wobbly democracy. In fact Necmettin Erbakan, head of a pro-Sharia (Islamic law) party was prime minister between 6/96 to 6/97. He was forced out by the army which helped preserve the democracy. With the continuing growth of the theocratic groups how long Turkey remain a democracy is anyone's guess.

Please share the scriptural basis (sanctions not just mentioning that it happened) in the Old Testament for these activities. I have provided the Qur'anic sanctions in these areas.

Again, I'm going to ask you why did you want to start this comparison between Christianity and Islam in these areas? Was it to attempt to bring Christianity down to Islam's level? If not what was your reasoning?

 

John, what fact is to refute? You made no factual argument and still don't. Your conjecture and that of the writer from Christian Century is irrelevant to the discussion about the fact that Muhammed consummated a marriage with a 9 year old.

The point you seem to be missing by bringing up this comparison in the first place is that no Christians are using the Bible to abuse children. Adherents of Islam are using the Qur'an to do so and have historically done so. The early church on the other hand was so attractive to women because it elevated marriage away from polygamy and concubines to monogamy.

Even if that's true (although you again offer no proof), it is not indicative of what would happen in an Islamic state however. We have 53 examples of what happens in that condition. Again, please provide proof for you above statement.

This is not logical. Please think about what you are stating. There are many things mentioned in the Bible that aren't sanctioned by God.

Also, you seem to have skipped your claim that David's wives and concubines were a "blessing from God." Please back up that previous claim.

Please give specific examples how your claim that history is repeating itself makes any sense here. Turkey the only democracy in the Islamic world has actually become less tolerant of non-Islamic people since it became a democracy. In fact Istanbul was estimated to be over 50% Christian in 1914. Today it is estimated to be 99.9% Islamic. Whole areas of Turkey have been systematically cleansed of Jews and Christians over the last 50 years.

What other examples do we have in history of countries moving away from theocracies and actually becoming less religously tolerant as a democracy? Doesn't history show the opposite to typically be true?

You drifted from that topic not me. You started the comparisons to Christianity. Again, I ask what was your purpose in doing that?

I completely disagree. I will make a moral judgement against any man in history that sexually abuses a 9 year old girl.

John, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that this problem will lessen. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Islam is "evolving" to a more moderate state. In fact the opposite is happening.

I assure you, I am disagreeing with you because I sincerely believe you are wrong.

 

John,

To address a couple of points. Do you understand the difference between your opinion and a fact? Let me give you an example, you can ask 3 people for their opinion on someone's age and get 3 differents answers. A birth announcement is a fact.

I made no claims on Mary's age. I have no claim to support. You did. Evidently you have no facts to support your claim. So I won't consider it valid.

Also, why would I a Protestant accept a Document used by the Catholic Church to "prove" the Immaculate Conception and that Mary remained a virgin her entire life? And what relevance would Mary remaining a virgin her entire life have to do with Muhammed having sex with a 9 year old?

Why would you use anecdotal evidence, which is considered meaniless for any study, from a church member to smear "evangelical" Christians? Isn't that stooping pretty low.

The article you posted on Muslim democracies uses very loose definitions for a democracy. I gave you very specific sources in this area. Please let me know which of the 11 "democracies" mentioned are worthy of optimism and give specific examples from those countries as I did for Turkey.

Also, if you look at a previous post, as predicted I knew what verses you were aluding to about David. And as predicted they have nothing to do with his wives and concubines being a "blessing from God." Now as a Christian I find such a charge a smear against God's character and take it very seriously.

Now either support your charge that they were a blessing from God or withdraw it. Stop ignoring it and address your claim on God's blessing.

[ February 06, 2003, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Will ]

 

I don't have an opinion on the age of Mary at the time of her betrothal. It is irrelevant to this subject. You are the one that brought it up and claimed she must have been about 13. I asked you for proof then. You have so far produced none. I still would like to know why you brought up this subject with no proof, in comparison to Muhammed sleeping with a 9 year old.

Why did you bring up this comparison?

John, because if as you say it existed circa 150ad, which by the way there is no proof that it did, then it was rejected as authentic by the early church. Today it is only accepted by the Catholic Church. Can you tell me any Protestant denominations that accept it? Have you ever studied the process of how the canon was established?

Besides that you have avoided my question on how a document purporting Mary remained a virgin her entire life is relevant to Muhammed defiling a 9 year old. How is it?

Do you accept Mary remained a virgin her entire life? Honestly. I've never met a Baptist that did.

I'll tell you what Huffington's definition is, which is commonly used by Political Scientists, it's the successful change of 2 separate elected governments within a particular nation.

What are your standards? You posted a claim that there are 11 democracies in Islamic states. Which ones are they? Let's look at them and evaluate them.

So prove a negative in other words. No thanks. John, seriously a good course in logic might be helpful.

And neither did I evaluate societies of the past by contemporary norms. Rather I showed that this behavior has existed in a continuum from Muhammed until this day within Islamic society. You for some reason made the comparison of the Old Testament with Modern Islam. I still don't know why. You have been unwilling to explain why.

Also, let me try once again. You made the claim that David's wives and concubines were a "blessing from God." If you can support this claim do so.

If not withdraw this claim as it is a slander on God's character?

Why would a Christian misrepresent the Bible to cast God in a negative light in defense of Islam?