did Christ die for all?

1 Peter 3:18, "For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;"

 

PinoyBaptist, I think you will find virtually every credible bible scholar disagrees with you because you have taken verse 23 out of its context, which you cannot do and remain true to the word! God is admonishing impenitent Jerusalem through Jeremiah!

Likewise with Ezekiel. Here, you fail to include in the context verses 21-24 which set the tone. God is using Ezekiel to prophesy to Israel regarding "The great drought"

Then Paul is addressing BELIEVERS in Phillipi

Paul addressing BELIEVERS in EPHESUS says,

Since you are willing to believe individual verses taken out of their context to be God's will in your life, you make yourself subject to any winds of doctrine that comes along.

 

Wow, I always knew that CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING, but I not sure that context would silence the Calvinists! They must be on vacation!

 

See ... I told ya *smile*

 

PinoyBaptist,

Regeneration cannot precede what it is! Regeneration is belief, "change of persuasion", "new understanding"; without belief one is not regenerated. That is clearly what Peter tells us all in 1 Peter 1:22-25 shown below with my bolding. But it is essential to know what the rest of the 'free world' understands the meaning of 'regeneration' to be, so I have posted the Webster's definition

How does one obey the truth? By hearing the Word, and believing! One will not obey that which one does not believe! The Word was delivered unto man to bring man to belief, which is "regeneration".

 

I truly hope that the Calvinist's long silence on this topic is an indication that they are reconsidering their understanding of truth.

 

Yelsew - Im not a Calvinist - God FORBID!

God died for every man woman, and baby

but I do believe that there is a form of
"prevenient" grace that allows us to choose
freely

the Calvinists - would state that this prevenient grace is the "salvific" grace or the key to the "salvific" grace a one two combo that leaves us KO'd into heaven - but there is clearly a set of steps - debatatble as to their order and composition - but that there is more then one or two is highly probable

Ill see if this stirs dem Calvinists up before elaborating

 

What scriptures provide evidence of "prevenient grace"

 

What view are you supporting with this?

1 Peter 1.1 & 2 identifies the audience, and this audience is referred to as 'us' in 3.18.

Bro. Dallas

 

What view are you supporting with this?

1 Peter 1.1 & 2 identifies the audience, and this audience is referred to as 'us' in 3.18.

Bro. Dallas </font>[/QUOTE]You say, 1 Peter 3:18 supports "prevenient Grace"? I say that scripture clearly explains why Jesus atoned for our sins, and so long as God's grace prevails as it is and has been for milleniums, the sins of man are not the barrier between God and man. FAITH ALONE remains the barrier between God and man. If you do not believe in God, you cannot be close to him. It is only through faith that we can approach the throne of God.

Sin is what separated man from God, and until Jesus' death at Calvary, Sin remained the separator. However, because Jesus died for ALL the sins of the World, that barrier no longer exists, HE PAID THE PENALTY! BUT, it remains FAITH that brings man to God! NOTHING ELSE CAN!

God is not a box of GRACES! God has but one Grace, and that grace is manifested in the manner in which God behaves toward man. It is God's grace that keeps Him from carrying out his long established justice which is death for sin. The penalty for sin remains death, but for the sake of man, and the sake of His Holy Name, Jesus paid that penalty once for all. All of that happening while God's grace prevails.

It is not God's will that we die, but that we live. Even so, He leaves the choice up to us! Choose Life!

 

What man does not believe in God?

I would submit that all men (humans) have a God whom they serve. What of the faith they place in this God. Is it not a real faith? Can God condemn these for having faith in 'god'?

Bro. Dallas

 

God with a capitol G is always used to define the one supreme God.

What you are talking about is gods, those things that man puts his faith in in the absence of Faith in the True God.

 

What is an Atheist?

</font>

• Someone who does not believe in God</font>
• Someone without God</font>

Christ Died for ALL the ELECT. We do NOT KNOW WHO THESE ARE.
Bro. Dallas

 

Your options:

The first is true and remains true even in the light of truth.

The second is not true for one with out God is one whom God refuses to present Himself. Scriptures claim that every knee shall bow to God. Therefore every man will know God to whom they must bow.

You shortchange the LOVE OF GOD! God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. God did not send his son, the Sacrificial Lamb of God from the foundation of the world, to only some of mankind, but rather to all of man kind.

That Lamb of God was not a sacrifice for only some of mankind, but for the sins of the world. That means that All the sins of the world from Adam Henceforth are covered by the sacrifice of one solitary life, who was not only fully human but fully God, being fathered by Holy God in the womb of a lowly human female. Since All of mankind sins, the sacrifice was for ALL mankind. There are no exclusions. So to say that Jesus' death was for the elect only, is to declare God a liar.

One need not even know about the Atonement to be covered by it because it covers all who sin. Therefore to say that only those who believe in the Atonement, the act of atonement, are saved is to belie the words of Jesus, who said "believe in me, and thou shalt be saved".

The doctrine of "the elect" as you use it is entirely false.

 

When we are saved. we are said to be resurrected from spiritual death. the spirit of christ that is given man contains the law as well as the spirit of life. the law convicts us or uncovers sin. sin has a penalty. death. this is how the believer recognizes or accepts his fate. in death we are to reach a point of crying out to God to take us from death and deliver us to life or heaven.

we are convinced we are dead to sin.
we are convinced of the need of a savior.
we are convinced that this spirit is resurrected from the dead that is within us.

everyone is delivered into death. everyone is delivered into life.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

yet all are not called of God to see this in this physical life. yet all are in death. are we overlooking somehing?

the elect are called today only. a reason is to teach them today to be working witness towards the larger harvest "in death" to be revealed in ages to come.

we remain in death until called of God for our eyes to be opened to the reality of our condition.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

the lake of fire is symbolc here. this is concerning the great harvest in the next age where all are placed there to await resurrection.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

this tells us of the work that is designed for the elect or the bride of Christ. we are the witnesses to those in the lake of fire in the next age when those in death are to be resurrected.


this is the purpose of the elect. they are ministers to those in the lake.

till everyone is resurrected or placed in Christ.


2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Perhaps not false, but explained with lack of detail......for their is a specific group being called today. while most are overlooked for a later calling.

Me2

 

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

There is much error in your exposition. Who are they to whom Christ shall appear again? Please explain your view of what the above verse means.

Will not the condemned live again (rise again, be resurrected) with an eternal body prepared for an eternity of torment? This is the limitation of the above scripture you are overlooking.

The resurrection from the dead is through Christ and will occur to all.

Bro. Dallas

 

Me2,
There are two (2), count them, 1 + 1 = 2, resurrections.

The first resurrection (Revelation 20:4) is of believers who have died. They shall be raised up when Jesus returns and that is called "the rapture", which takes place AFTER Satan, the serpent of the Garden, is chained up for 1000 years. Those who are resurrected when Jesus returns will reign with Jesus Christ for the 1000 years. These shall not face the second death!

The second resurrection (Revelation 20:12-14) is of ALL mankind not previously resurrected by Jesus, as you described in Revelation 20:14 and 15. Keep in mind that those who are resurrected with Jesus do not face the second death so they are not Judged! (John 3:18). Those who are resurrected from the seas, etc, in Rev 20 are the unbelievers (John 3:18) who are judged and cast into the lake of fire, which is not symbolic, but very real for it is the final death from which there is no resurrection or redemption.

THE TEXT

 

Frogman, Context is a wonderful thing, it explains!

Just as in Revelation 20 which I posted for Me2's benefit, Paul says the same thing, essentially, to the Corinthians. Look at the order of things in Revelation 20, see if it is not as Paul states it here.

Who are those who belong to Jesus? Isn't it those who believe in Him and submit themselves to Him? Many know who Jesus is, but not all of them submit themselves to Him.

 

Frogman,

examine the image of Man. It is Christ. the resurrected spirit that combines the law of God with a proven righteous resurrected spirit.

when man is born of flesh. he receives a soul. an independent entity. predesigned. predisposed.
Yet he is placed in spiritual death awaiting the spiritual judgement of God. He is in an environment which contains the elements God uses to explain his knowledge of Good and evil.

Yet man cannot understand this knowledge unless he contains Gods resurrected spirit. For only Gods spirit can see and understand the knowledge of Good as intended as well as the knowledge of evil intended.

as well as being tugged and pulled by the elements and nature of this fallen world.

Man is born in spiritual death awaiting judgment as well as in a state of decaying entropy and a fallen nature..

we are placed in this condition by God to teach us the knowledge of Good and Evil on HIS TERMS USING HIS METHODOLOGY.

can man disagree. Nope. we are here under diress placed on us by the conditions God designs to be against us.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

we're placed here in spiritual death by God. Adam delivered us from "the image" designed for man called being "in Christ" and placed us in "spiritual death" without any hope of escape outside Gods intervention. yet the designs of God was TO PLACE man in spiritual "death" to return him back into the image which is called "in christ"

kinda like circular reasoning. from the image back into the image.
the bible states this process of "reconciliation"

we are presented with a history of man as the law is given yet without the strength of the indwelling spirit of Christ. Why does God wait 4000 years?

to express the next part of the LESSON PLAN.

we next receive the “spirit of life combined with the law”. Now, as we are in spiritual death without hope.

we have the law convicting and identifying sin in our life. Its consequences are delivering our mindset to the realize of our condition of spiritual death and also giving us the means of escape.

the spirit that God attaches to our soul is allowing us to be resurrected by the power of God.

we are ALL in death..in adam. we are ALL delivered into life..in christ.

This is the intended image for all mankind to eventually receive. dont be confused. become aware of the higher conscious thought and plans of God here. He is infinite mercy. He is sovereign over all.

those living under the OT law. And still in spiritual death. they will receive their opportunity to hear the Gospel and make choices and also receive understanding.

remember we are individuals and will have to experience this personally. as individuals.

yet you hear man speak of those not hearing of Christ, or of Gods plans of reconciliation.

this is the brides inheritance.
This is Christs inheritance. Given to his bride. They are to personally be involveled in bringing Gods creation to become reconciled.To return mankind into the image of "in christ"

this is the plans that they are being trained for today. to personally offer the good news to each individual who hasnt yet heard. and to give them and the same opportunities to grow in Gods intended image of man to become.

thats Gods methods, yet can we explain it or even describe it? its given to us in a mystery..

yet we do understand that God is Just and fair and INFINITE MERCY. everyone should receive the same opportunity as the church does today.

all in adam (death) all in christ (life)

didnt Jesus abolish death. oh no.. they are placed in the Lake of fire. yet this isnt described as an enemy of Christ. a Power that Christ must overcome.

the Lake of Fire is simply another name of the holy spirit. the same operations as he displays towards the church. he will administer to individuals in the "lake".

difference is WE ARE the messengers. as the Holy Spirit speaks to us. we speak to others. as the holy spirit is invisible to us. We will be visible to those in the "Lake".

now how does one speak to a dead 18th century eskimo?.

I aint Got that figured out, but would you think that the 18th century eskimo deserves fair treatment of Their creator to be conformed into Gods intended image of man?.

God is not partial. He will treat everyone alike. all reaching the intended goal of being conformed into the image which is "in christ" or "in Life"

this is "Living Hope" Frogman.

that all Gods creation be saved and be conformed into Gods intended image. and I cant hold back anyone from reaching it. no one. God saved you and me without our help. Im sure he's got the details all figured out.

He must have before anything was ever created. it was already perfected "in Christ"

as for your question of Who does Christ appear to.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

just because Jesus doesnt appear to those around you. doesnt mean he will not eventually appear..maybe when your not looking.

Because its all in his timing and his methodology.

now Christ judges our works...

well, works of the flesh is our efforts to stop sinning or overcoming sin in our life. which will all be destroyed when we eventually die to those efforts and Cry out to the lord to save us. these believers are still living under the law and havent completely died to their own personal effoerts.
they havent been resurrected from spiritual death yet. nor is Jesus their lord

when we stand before Jesus. we are completely desolate of personal strength to overcome our enemies. this is the day of proclaiming Jesus is lord. for it is he who defeats all our enemies. this is resurrection day.

You hear those speaking of living by faith. Try examining Gods plans with expectations of them being completely fulfilled. That is living hope! Waiting to speak to that 18th century eskimo. Reconciling him with his creator.

Or you can dwell on others ideas of God torturing 95% of his creation…makes you wonder about their definition of Gods Love….

Me2

 

Yelsew,

All Christ Enemies are put under his power.

1Co 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

that means everything evil or unrighteous. the only thing remaining belongs "in righteousness".

nobody will remain in death or hell. nobody will remain in the lake of fire. where are they?. (not eternally roasting or being tortured somewhere.)

they will have been resurrected into life. into their intended image called "in Christ".

for the Judgement of Christ is that all mans sin are forgiven.
and theres remains no more accusing powers against mankind.

Jesus has overthrown all unrighteous enemies.

Me2