What About The Sabbath?! Many Baptists Do not Keep the Sabbath ..Why???l

Pastor Chet,
Looked through your website and on the faq section you forgot couple of things on the the 3rd commandment
Matthew 6:9 ...Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name .
Main Entry: hal·lowed
Pronunciation: 'ha-(")lOd, 'ha-l&d, in the Lord's Prayer often 'ha-l&-w&d
Function: adjective
Date: before 12th century
1 : HOLY, CONSECRATED
2 : SACRED, REVERED hallowed customs

Main Entry: ho·ly
Pronunciation: 'hO-lE
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): ho·li·er; -est
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English hAlig; akin to Old English hAl whole -- more at WHOLE
Date: before 12th century
1 : exalted or worthy of complete devotion as one perfect in goodness and righteousness
2 : DIVINE for the Lord our God is holy -- Psalms 99:9 (Authorized Version)
3 : devoted entirely to the deity or the work of the deity, a holy temple, holy prophets
4 a : having a divine quality .holy love. b : venerated as or as if sacred, holy scripture, a holy relic

You also left out couple words on your reply
Matthew 5:34-35 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

If you want to have a day of rest as Helen stated go right ahead, I have respect for that, but to say that we are commanded to keep it, is biblically incorrect.

Revelation 14:12 would suggest to me that Gods Commandments are for keeping along with the Faith of Jesus.

I would say that Dietry laws are no longer for today based on Acts 11:7 "Then I heard a voice saying to me, get up, Peter kill and eat! But I said, certainley not, Lord! No ritually unclean or defiled food has ever entered my mouth. The voice spoke again from heaven, do not consider anything the Lord has declared clean unclean".

It would be a logical conclusion that the unclean animals on the sheet are declared clean.

Looking at it from a scientific point of view, all of the unclean animals have potential health problems for humans. Magnified by the time they were living in. For example unscaled fish like shark have no protection from bugs etching into them and being passed on to the eater unlike a scaled fish. Pigs are cannibals, look at what happened with Mad Cow disease when a species eats its own species. Pork also grows bacteria rapidly. So there were valid reasons not to eat these things. Some people still go kosher on camping trips for the hygene reason.

From a scientific point of view, yes.
One would be at less risk for disease if one observed the dietary laws of the Law.
There are 613 laws in the Torah.
Even if you wanted to keep the Law per its own instruction, you couldn't.
There is no Temple in Israel, no identifiable levitcal priesthood and no red heifer (species no longer exists) to cleanse the Temple and Holy Land even if the temple were rebuilt and somehow the levites could be identified.
Even the Jews in Israel CANNOT keep the Law (every jot and tittle).

So, Ben how does this relate to Revelation 14:12?
Are they Torah keepers and if so does that mean the Temple will be rebuilt?

If anyone wants to keep the parts of Torah that can physically be kept, imo it's fine as long as they don't cause confusion as to salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
Many messianics and adventists are clear on this, others not so clear.

HankD

It is my belief that the term Commandments relate to the Ten Commandments rather than the common Law. Which was fufilled by Jesus Christ.

Oh, ok. It looked like you were relating the dietary Law with Revelation 14:12.
Sorry.

HankD

It can be a hard line for some to draw, but when we focus on how Jesus Christ brings us into Salvation over the old Law for a Salvation system, it gets easier to understand.

Yet as it has been pointed out before so very well, keeping the Ten Commandments are a natural outworking of Salvation rather than a way of Salvation.

Thoughts from the Rebel Baptist, pertaining to the Sabbath.

Here is what I do. I actually observe a Saturday AND Sunday Sabbath.

First, there is the nod to the old way. On Friday evening, I light a candle and pray a simple prayer, thanking God for the week I have had, and for his blessings on my family and life. This begins a "Sabbath" observance for me.

On Saturday Morning, I read my KJV Bible on the porch with my pipe, and then join my fellow Baptist men for some fellowship over breakfast. We pray, we laugh, and we sure do EAT!

Then the afternoon is with the family, either shooting at the range with my daughters (or hunting or fishing with them) or football games in the autumn. Then after a light supper, I light the candle again and thank God for a great day.

Then comes the nod to the new way. On Sunday, it is Church in the morning and evening, along with family activities at home, including one of my world's famous "Rebel BBQ's." The evening concludes with more KJV Bible and some special time with my wife. Thus ends my Sabbath observance.

That is how I do it. That way, no one can say anything on me. But more importantly, this is how I feel God wants me to do it.

From the Southland,
Rebel [><]

It can be a hard line for some to draw, but when we focus on how Jesus Christ brings us into Salvation over the old Law for a Salvation system, it gets easier to understand.

Yet as it has been pointed out before so very well, keeping the Ten Commandments are a natural outworking of Salvation rather than a way of Salvation.

Click to expand...

I like to look at it this way, the commandments are for our piggy nature which supposedly we have crucified.
No need to tell the sheep to stay out of the cesspool.
The sheep love the shepherd and love to hear His voice. He is our Law.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Not even ourselves.
Not even Moses.

HankD

Matthew 16:24,

re: “There is no commandment exhorting sabbath keeping in the ENTIRE New Testament.”

Doesn’t need to be. The Sabbath commandment was given in Exodus, and until there is scripture that rescinds it, it is still in effect. The Sabbath is mentioned over 55 times in the NT, and not once is it said to be abrogated.

re: “...(1) we find that we are to let no man judge us when it comes to sabbath days (Col. 2:16)...”

How does Paul telling the Colossians that they shouldn’t let anyone but the body of the Messiah (the church) judge them about the way that they were keeping Sabbaths lend support for your thinking that the Sabbath has been abrogated?


re: “...(2) we find Jesus saying the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath (Mark 2:27)

How does the fact that the Sabbath was made for man show that it has been abrogated?


re: “...(3) we find that the seventh day sabbath is a shadow of the true, heavenly rest (Hebrews 4:4-4:11).”

And once again, nothing said here about a change in the Sabbath. In fact verse 9 says just the opposite: “It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath.” (Lamsa translation from the Aramaic of the Peshitta)

The final rest is yet in the future, in the coming Millennium. The Sabbath pictures that rest.

[ March 09, 2003, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: rstrats ]

RE: The New Covenant Sabbath

Hebrews 4:
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached (Old Covenant) entered not in because of unbelief
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus (Joshua) had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest (sabbatismos:sabbath-keeping) to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

"That rest" Singular and specific.

And once again, nothing said here about a change in the Sabbath. In fact verse 9 says just the opposite: “It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath.” (Lamsa translation from the Aramaic of the Peshitta)

Click to expand...

Why use a translation of a translation. If you want to use another language, prove it from the koine Greek, the language of inspiration.

The Sabbath-keeping in verse 9 which remains from the Old Covenant is the "another day" of verse 8.

Verse 7 is a picture of that day (another day) "To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts"

The final rest is yet in the future, in the coming Millennium. The Sabbath pictures that rest.

Click to expand...

Chapter and Verse?

... The Sabbath commandment was given in Leviticus, and until there is scripture that rescinds it, it is still in effect. The Sabbath is mentioned over 55 times in the NT, and not once is it said to be abrogated.

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You are correct in that Leviticus is part of the Law (the Torah) and the details of Sabbath keeping are spelled out there.

If that is your reason then, that you keep the Sabbath because the Law commands "us" to do so, you are obligated to keep the whole law under penalty of a curse.

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Exodus 31
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

There is definitely a conflict between the old and new covenants because they are distinct from one another and MUST be kept that way.

Luke 6
36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

HankD

Why is that so?

Dear thunder,

1) who are you asking and what are you asking?

If you are asking me why the old and new Covenants should be kept distinct the answer is in Acts 15 (there are others)...

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they...

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment.

Circumcision is the rite of entry into the Old Covenant.
Cicumcision is an "everlasting Covenant" given to Abraham and all his progeny after him. Circumcision preceded the giving of the Law.

Genesis 17
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee...
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Baptism is the entry ordinance of the New.

The Law of Moses defines the walk of the Old.
The Holy Spirit is the guiding Light of the New.

"18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law".

HankD

Not really HANKD. I just want to say something and to keep the topic visible, else it will be lost in the posting.

OH OK!

HankD

An interesting point:
After the resurrection, Jesus never went into a synagogue (or church), according to the Scriptures.
Did Jesus keep the Sabbath after the resurrection?
Did Jesus have some special permission to not keep the Sabbath after the resurrection?

If keeping the Sabbath was so important for the church, why did Jesus not keep the Sabbath after the resurrection, and why did Jesus not mention it AT ALL in His letters (communication) to the churches in Revelation chapters 2 and 3?

An interesting point:
After the resurrection, Jesus never went into a synagogue (or church), according to the Scriptures.
Did Jesus keep the Sabbath after the resurrection?
Did Jesus have some special permission to not keep the Sabbath after the resurrection?

If keeping the Sabbath was so important for the church, why did Jesus not keep the Sabbath after the resurrection, and why did Jesus not mention it AT ALL in His letters (communication) to the churches in Revelation chapters 2 and 3?

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Once a man is dead, the law has nothing to say to him.

Romans 7
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

HankD

Hank
To say Jesus never went to a synagogue after the resurrection ia an argument from silence. You know that is not exegetically defensible. An argument from silence holds no weight.
chet

You are correct Pastor Chet.

I was simply responding to the inquiry in the event that it might be true in this case (the argument from silence, being caused by the fact that He didn't attend the synagogue or "keep" the Sabbath).

But The Romans passage is still true.

Peace to you...

HankD

Search the Scriptures, Can You Find One Text...

1. That says the Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

2. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

3. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

4. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

5. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

6. That tells us to keep the first day in honor of the resurrection of Christ?

7. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

8. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

9. Where it says it was for the Church to observe, or to meet on, the first day of the week?

10. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

11. Where any blessings are promised for observing Sunday?

12. Where any punishment is threatened for working on Sunday?

13. That says the seventh day is not now God's Sabbath day?

14. Where the apostles ever taught their converts to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. That says the seventh-day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

16. Where the first day is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

20. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

21. That calls the seventh day the "Jewish Sabbath" or one text that calls Sunday the "Christian Sabbath"?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

(From: "Which Day Is the Christian Sabbath?" by David J. Smith.)

in Christ
chet