What About The Sabbath?! Many Baptists Do not Keep the Sabbath ..Why???l

No. But one I do find this one concerning Sabbath-keeping.

Exodus 31
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Keep it then my brother, every jot and tittle.

HankD

 

Are you saying we should excute people working between Friday at dusk til Saturday at dusk? (That's the traditional sabbath time)

How does an adventist deal with John 5:18?

"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."

As I see it, the only thing that was broke was the Pharisees' poor interpretations of what the Lord's sabbath really is.

The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

(I rewrote this after-the-fact for better reading)

Thanks
absturzen

[ March 15, 2003, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: absturzen ]

 

The details of Sabbath "keeping" are found only in the Law (The Torah).
Why keep only those details that we pick and choose out of the Law.
One of the details of Sabbath-keeping is DO NO WORK.
Another is WORK on the Sabbath and die.
Another is to not start a fire.
Etc, etc.

Once a pro-active stance is taken concerning any of the details of the Law then one becomes a debtor to the whole thing under a penalty of a curse (which curse Christ has already endured once for all).

HankD

 

Roman Catholic And Protestant
Confessions about Sunday

The vast majority of Christian churches today teach the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, as a time for rest and worship. Yet it is generally known and freely admitted that the early Christians observed the seventh day as the Sabbath. How did this change come about?

History reveals that it was decades after the death of the apostles that a politico-religious system repudiated the Sabbath of Scripture and substituted the observance of the first day of the week. The following quotations, all from Roman Catholic sources, freely acknowledge that there is no Biblical authority for the observance of Sunday, that it was the Roman Church that changed the Sabbath to the first day of the week.

In the second portion of this article are quotations from Protestants. Undoubtedly all of these noted clergymen, scholars, and writers kept Sunday, but they all frankly admit that there is no Biblical authority for a first-day sabbath.

ROMAN CATHOLIC CONFESSIONS

James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.

"But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify."
Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism 3rd ed., p. 174.

"Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
"Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."
John Laux, A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies (1936), vol. 1, P. 51.

"Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted the Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days."
Daniel Ferres, ed., Manual of Christian Doctrine (1916), p.67.

"Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
"Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of, and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.'
James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter.

"Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day —Saturday — for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes. Did Christ change the day'? I answer no!
"Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons"
The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893.

"The Catholic Church, . . . by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."
Catholic Virginian Oct. 3, 1947, p. 9, art. "To Tell You the Truth."

"For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the[Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible."
Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957), p. 50.

"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
"Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.
"Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
"Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."
Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About (1927),p. 136.

"Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday .... Now the Church ... instituted, by God's authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday."
Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Society (1975),Chicago, Illinois.

"Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:
"1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.
"2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws.
"It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible."
T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18,1884.

"I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church."

PROTESTANT CONFESSIONS

Protestant theologians and preachers from a wide spectrum of denominations have been quite candid in admitting that there is no Biblical authority for observing Sunday as a sabbath.


Isaac Williams, Plain Sermons on the Catechism, vol. 1, pp.334, 336.

"And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day .... The reason why we keep the first day of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, not because the Bible, but because the church has enjoined it."
Canon Eyton, The Ten Commandments, pp. 52, 63, 65.

"There is no word, no hint, in the New Testament about abstaining from work on Sunday .... into the rest of Sunday no divine law enters.... The observance of Ash Wednesday or Lent stands exactly on the same footing as the observance of Sunday."
Bishop Seymour, Why We Keep Sunday.

We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy Catholic Church."

Baptist

Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, a paper read before a New York ministers' conference, Nov. 13, 1893, reported in New York Examiner, Nov.16, 1893.

"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week .... Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament absolutely not.
"To me it seems unaccountable that Jesus, during three years' intercourse with His disciples, often conversing with them upon the Sabbath question . . . never alluded to any transference of the day; also, that during forty days of His resurrection life, no such thing was intimated.
"Of course, I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history . . . . But what a pity it comes branded with the mark of paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!"
William Owen Carver, The Lord's Day in Our Day, p. 49.

"There was never any formal or authoritative change from the Jewish seventh-day Sabbath to the Christian first-day observance."

Congregationalist

Dr. R. W. Dale, The Ten Commandments (New York: Eaton &Mains), p. 127-129.

" . . . it is quite clear that however rigidly or devotedly we may spend Sunday, we are not keeping the Sabbath — . . 'The Sabbath was founded on a specific Divine command. We can plead no such command for the obligation to observe Sunday .... There is not a single sentence in the New Testament to suggest that we incur any penalty by violating the supposed sanctity of Sunday."
Timothy Dwight, Theology: Explained and Defended (1823), Ser. 107, vol. 3, p. 258.

" . . . the Christian Sabbath [Sunday] is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive Church called the Sabbath."

Disciples of Christ

Alexander Campbell, The Christian Baptist, Feb. 2, 1824,vol. 1. no. 7, p. 164.

"'But,' say some, 'it was changed from the seventh to the first day.' Where? when? and by whom? No man can tell. No; it never was changed, nor could it be, unless creation was to be gone through again: for the reason assigned must be changed before the observance, or respect to the reason, can be changed! It is all old wives' fables to talk of the change of the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day. If it be changed, it was that august personage changed it who changes times and laws ex officio - I think his name is Doctor Antichrist.'
First Day Observance, pp. 17, 19.

"The first day of the week is commonly called the Sabbath. This is a mistake. The Sabbath of the Bible was the day just preceding the first day of the week. The first day of the week is never called the Sabbath anywhere in the entire Scriptures. It is also an error to talk about the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. There is not in any place in the Bible any intimation of such a change."

Lutheran

The Sunday Problem, a study book of the United Lutheran Church (1923), p. 36.

"We have seen how gradually the impression of the Jewish sabbath faded from the mind of the Christian Church, and how completely the newer thought underlying the observance of the first day took possession of the church. We have seen that the Christians of the first three centuries never confused one with the other, but for a time celebrated both."
Augsburg Confession of Faith art. 28; written by Melanchthon, approved by Martin Luther, 1530; as published in The Book of Concord of the Evangelical Lutheran Church Henry Jacobs, ed. (1 91 1), p. 63.

"They [Roman Catholics] refer to the Sabbath Day, a shaving been changed into the Lord's Day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it seems. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath Day. Great, say they, is the power of the Church, since it has dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments!"
Dr. Augustus Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church Henry John Rose, tr. (1843), p. 186.

"The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a Divine command in this respect, far from them, and from the early apostolic Church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday."
John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday, pp. 15, 16.

"But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel .... These churches err in their teaching, for Scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect."

Methodist

Harris Franklin Rall, Christian Advocate, July 2, 1942, p.26.

"Take the matter of Sunday. There are indications in the New Testament as to how the church came to keep the first day of the week as its day of worship, but there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day."
John Wesley, The Works of the Rev. John Wesley, A.M., John Emory, ed. (New York: Eaton & Mains), Sermon 25,vol. 1, p. 221.

"But, the moral law contained in the ten commandments, and enforced by the prophets, he [Christ] did not take away. It was not the design of his coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken .... Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other."

Dwight L. Moody

D. L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting (Fleming H. Revell Co.: New York), pp. 47, 48.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God Wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?"

Presbyterian

T. C. Blake, D.D., Theology Condensed, pp.474, 475.

"The Sabbath is a part of the decalogue — the Ten Commandments. This alone forever settles the question as to the perpetuity of the institution . . . . Until, therefore, it can be shown that the whole moral law has been repealed, the Sabbath will stand . . . . The teaching of Christ confirms the perpetuity of the Sabbath."

 

OK Pastor Chet, keep the Sabbath.

I for one will not try to stop you.

HankD

 

I'm sorry Hank. I should have read more in you other posts to understand your position. The verse you selected startle me. Now I get the humor in post 1935.

Mom was right... I shouldn't jump in the middle of a conversion and assume I know what is being said. Oh well, egg on my face. Sorry.

absturzen (German for crash which is appropriate right now)

 

Dear crash,

I was a little confused as well : The communications gap.

Personally my sense of the Scriptures is that a holy people are holy 24/7 and rest in Him 24/7.

Romans 11
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

1 Peter 1
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ...

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Romans 8
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Acts 13
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Matthew 11
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

HankD

[ March 16, 2003, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

Absturzen --

We who love and observe the Sabbath are not all,
by any stretch of the imagination, in any way
connected with the SDAs. I am not, never have
been, and never will be. 8o) The SDAs are only
one small group of many who observe Sabbath,
and indeed, they do observe it differently than
many of us.

 

Might I add that (many,most,some - one of these adjectives is correct imo) who love and observe the seventh day Sabbath are trusting Christ alone by grace through faith in Him for their salvation.

I personally have not been led of the Spirit to "keep" the seventh day Sabbath after the manner out of the mosaic Law (or selected parts thereof) apart from resting in Christ as part of the new covenant holy priesthood of believers.

my disagreement with seventh day Sabbath keepers (directly or in an oblique manner) is that it often seventh day Sabbath keeping is presented as a way or a maintance of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ which is in the ultimate analysis, a contradiction,

HankD

[ March 16, 2003, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

My view of SDA's is that they are at best a sect /borderline cult. It is the SDA church that causes most to reject the idea of even studying the issue for themselves. That's why I chose to affiliate with the Seventh day baptist churches.
I believe the issue of the Sabbath has nothing to do with salvation but rather obedience and Holiness. I keep the Sabbath for the same reason I don't kill, steal, lie,commit adultury ,take God's name in vain etc.

 

Believe me Pastor Chet, you are doing an amazing ministry with the Seventh Day Baptist Church. I am sure the American conference are stoked to have you on board.

 

Why are those who write after Pentecost silent on keeping the Sabbath (in the same way that the nation of Israel was supposed to keep it)?
Especially, Jesus could have supported the Sabbath position in Revelation chapters 2 and 3, but, not surprisingly, He didn't. Jesus doesn't even mention it. Must be really important.
Why is there not one reference to Christians keeping the Sabbath in the writings after Pentecost? Again, it must be really important.

Also, why did the council in Acts 15 not mention it?

To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

Greetings.

AC 15:24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. [25] So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul-- [26] men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. [27] Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. [28] It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: [29] You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

Farewell.

People are allowed in every generation to follow Jesus as they see fit. Some try to mix the law that God gave to the nation of Israel, with the freedom that God gave to the church. They don't mix.

As the APOSTLE Paul so wonderfully stated:
GAL 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." [11] Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." [12] The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." [13] Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." [14] He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

 

Abiyah and Pastor Chet,

Thanks for your responses. I am happy to hear that the Seventh Day Baptists have nothing to do with the Seventh Day Adventist.

I'm like HankD, I desire not to be in bondage (Galatians 4:8-11)...I believe we are instructed to enter in the sabbath rest (Hebrews 4:1-11). The sabbatismós that begins in our Christian walk and never ends.

I do feel that if people feel convicted of having a weekly sabbath that they should follow their convictions(Romans 14:5-6).

But I know this debate will never solved here. One reason I don't care too much for debate. But I do like to hear what other Christians (particularly Baptists) think about.

Thanks again
Absturzen

[ March 17, 2003, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: absturzen ]

 

Absturzen --

I love debate when it is productive; I just am very
uncomfortable with arguing and with those who
love disunity and who seek a fight. I am thankful
for the many who are (as apparently you and
others are here) able to discuss such a topic as
this one without becoming angry and without the name-calling. These are the greatest turn-offs to
me.

Just so that you will know, I am also not what is
commonly called Seventh-Day Baptist. I do not
wish to mislead you.

I think that what many Sunday-keepers do not
understand is that keeping Sabbath is not, in any
way, a burden. It is not hard. It is something I
actually look forward to every week. It is complete
rest for me, and I Need It! (Especially this week!)
In Bible times, they did not give any of the days of
the week names, but they were mere counting days
leading to Sabbath. This week, I feel the same
way: each day is nothing more than one day closer
to Sabbath. 8o)

Sabbath is intended to be a delight, and if it is not,
someone is observing it wrong.

 

So Abiyah, Would you be interested in trying a meeting at a Seventh Day Baptist Church if there was one near to you?

 

Ben, I really appreciate the invitation, but I love my
synagogue. 8o) I think that the differences would
be profound, but I don't know; I have never
checked into the Seventh Day Baptists.

Just so that you will understand, my synagogue
was started by a Jewish man reared in a Baptist
pastor's home, educated in Baptist schools and
seminaries. Our other pastor was also reared and
educated in the same manner, but our synagogue
certainly follows the Jewish pattern of worship as
well as the Jewish calendar of events. I really
don't think I could ever be satisfied with anything
other than this, having experienced it since @
1995 (I should check that date sometime -- I think
it was earlier.)

I love the Lord, and I love His ways. I love His
celebrations, the Jewish order of service, and yes,
even His fasts. This is truly where I belong. 8o)

 

abiyah,

how far does your congregation go? for example, do have a mehitzah(divider between men and women in worship), do you follow the shulchan aruch(a standard codification of jewish law)? do you have people called up for torah readings? are women called?

thanks,
tim (once known as yitzchok abromowitz)

[ March 20, 2003, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: timothy 1969 ]

 

No, we do not; we all sit together. In fact, I have
chosen to sit at a table toward the back of the
synagogue because of back problems (more
support on bad days) and because I enjoy having a
place to put my teaching handout, Bible, siddur,
etc. A young man sits directly beside me on most
Sabbaths, and we have become friends.

For a synagogue which accepts and loves our Lord
Y'shua, we are very orthodox -- in fact, I know of
extremely few such which are more orthodox, and
these few go so far as to be strictly "black coats"
and very restrictive toward Gentiles. For regular
synagogues (those not knowing our Lord),
we would fall on the orthodox side of somewhere
between the least conservative and the most
conservative.

I have never heard of the term 'shulchan aruch."

If I am understanding you correctly, yes, to a point.
For example, while I eat kosher meats, I do not go
to butchers who guarantee kosher-slaughter, I do
not use separate utensils for foods, and I do not
separate my meats from dairy.

Also, according to some such laws, my Lord is
not accepted; therefore, that law is not legitimate.

However, for other examples, we do Jewish mikveh
rather than Christian baptism, and we do not
celebrate the church calendar but the Jewish
calendar (that probably covers a lot of area in
your question).

Yes. Various ones are called to Torah every
Sabbath, and some are women. My bat mitzvah
will be in July, so my first aliyah will be that
Sabbath. I will be expected to cant my whole
portion from the Torah scroll in Hebrew. After this,
I will be eligible to be called to Torah on other
occasions.

 

Cool Abiyah,

I have often wished to be able to visit with a Messianic fellowship, yet there is not one in my state. In Australia most Messianic congregations are Pentecostal and not real different to a meeting at the AOG.

I would encourage you in your Synagogue, I would encourage you to visit a SDB church if there is one near you, simply because you might well be able to add much to them. You know alot of stuff about the Sabbath view, and maybe God could help you to build up other fellowships.

God Bless Ben W