Christ was Arminian?

I am afraid you are reading too much into my response to Bob's silly scenario.

 

Eric, what do you do with Revelation 14:6 (see my previous post). The Gospel is for "ALL", not for some. Mystery solved, there is no "elect" except perhaps the 144 thousand "virgins" undefiled by women.

BobRyan, that is a qualification that one with a daughter left behind cannot meet.

 

Whoops! Looks like you have some 'splaining to do, Yelsew.

Matthew 24:22(NASB)
22 “Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Matthew 24:24(NASB)
24 “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

Matthew 24:31(NASB)
31 “And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Mark 13:20(NASB)
20 “Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

Mark 13:22(NASB)
22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

Mark 13:27(NASB)
27 “And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

Luke 18:7(NASB)
7 now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?

Romans 8:33(NASB)
33 Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;

 

Well, Ken you asked.

See Revelation 14:1-6 and

Response,

Revelation 14:1-6

II Thess 2:1-12

II THESS 2:1-12

Revelation 14:1-6

Doesn't really mean what Calvinists say it means.

[/quote]A hymn to God's love

Romans 8:31-39. After saying this, what can we add? If God is for us, who can be against us? Since he did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for the sake of all of us, then can we not expect that with him he will freely give us all his gifts? Who can bring any accusation against those that God has chosen? When God grants saving justice who can condemn? Are we not sure that it is Christ Jesus, who died, yes and more, who was raised from the dead and is at God's right hand, and who is adding his plea for us? Can anything cut us off from the love of Christ, can hardships or distress, or persecution, or lack of food and clothing, or threats or violence; as scripture says: For your sake we are being massacred all day long, treated as sheep to be slaughtered? No; we come through all these things triumphantly victorious, by the power of him who loved us. For I am certain of this: neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nothing already in existence and nothing still to come, nor any power, nor the heights nor the depths, nor any created thing whatever, will be able to come between us and the love of God, known to us in Christ Jesus our Lord.[/quote] Who is Jesus pleading for? All the "whosoever believeth's", at least that is what He Himself told us.

 

I am sorry, Yelsew, but I have no idea how your post is related to the fact that the Bible talks about Christians as the elect.

 

Sorry Ken,
I associated you as holding the same opinion about the elect as Frogman, Pastor Larry, and Tyndale1946.

You are using the same scriptures.

 

The elect are those who are saved by God. Now we may disagree on how they became elect, but they are the elect irregardless.

 

So, Bob, you think that trusting in God's righteousness in doing all things perfectly according to His will is self-centered. That's sad, Bob, real sad for you.

I don't know if I would characterize your view of God as monstrous, but it is certainly false and unBiblical.

And I notice you haven't provided any sources for your ideas for translation of Revelation 14:10. Somehow I am not surprised.

 

And how do you picture the saints watching their helpless child being tormented and being absolutely crushed emotionally by the sight and God, Whom you also picture as being absolutely crushed emotionally by the sight of what He is doing, resolving this issue so they can do something for the rest of eternity besides standing there being absolutely crushed emotionally?

Please tell us how you picture the rest of the story. I'm sure it will be interesting to say the least...or maybe the most.

 

Just to remind you all, I am not a hyphenated Christian. I am not a Calvinist or Arminian Christian. So please do not think of me as such.

Therefore, I am not taking sides.

 

I think you are the one who is out of touch on the elect here. I don't think Ken differs that much from us. To deny the existence of the elect is to deny Scripture.

And I think you have made your side quite clear. Your rejection of the name does not change the content of your views. Let's dispense with the idea that you are "unhyphenated." It certainly is not true.

 

I think you are the one who is out of touch on the elect here. I don't think Ken differs that much from us. To deny the existence of the elect is to deny Scripture.

And I think you have made your side quite clear. Your rejection of the name does not change the content of your views. Let's dispense with the idea that you are "unhyphenated." It certainly is not true. </font>[/QUOTE]I don't think I've denied the existence of "the elect". In fact I have stated that the "the elect" are the 144,000 of Revelation 14:1-6. That is 12,000 each out of each of the twelve tribes of Israel. This makes more sense because they are "undefiled" by women as Jesus was, lived a "righteous" life (not necessarily sinless, but righteous). Jesus sanctified them out of the saints, thus they are the "Elect".

That is significantly different than the Calvinist "elect".

 

BobRyan,
If you can prove the events in Revelation are presented in Chronological sequence, then you may have a solid argument. So far you have not, and I know of no scholar who has.