Is Divorce a Sin?

Don writes:
>>In Ernie's situation, as presented, the
>>individual--a saved church member--divorces and
>>remarries.

Okay, let me try this again: IF the "saved church member" repents, then it is forgiven. I said that my church would permit the "saved church member" to continue in the church. That is all I said, that was the scope of my comment.

Secondly, when did I ever question Scripture? Please show me where I did this. I only questioned your comments.

 

Since you seem to be afraid to answer a simple yes or no, I will assume your answer is yes.

I hardly see the comparison between cutting off your arm and being divorced, but I'll humor you.

Ok, I'm divorced and remarried, so I am an adulterer. It has been indicated by other posters that I can be accepted as a member in their church.

Since I am considered an adulterer, and I shall continue in this "sin" as long as I am remarried, then I am willfully sinning, and should be chastised by the church. Since I will continue in my sin, I should be eventually turned out of the church, since I have no intention to stop "sinning" by continuing to be an adulterer.

Can you say "Catch-22"?

 

BIR, I started reading your comments after Ernie's post about a saved church member divorcing and then being church disciplined. Your comment was:

To which I responded that the church has always had the authority to mediate discipline. To which you responded:

I can only assume at this point that you somehow changed the interpretation of Ernie's original post, because Ernie said nothing about the individual asking for forgiveness, much less receiving forgiveness.

How do you know God forgave that sin before the church started mediating discipline?

If it sounded like I was saying that you were questioning scripture, it's because you seemed to indicate that you weren't going to follow Matthew 18. Perhaps because you were reading a "forgiven sin" into the scenario that I wasn't.

As I said: If the member repents, the church forgives, and everything continues on. But, as per Matthew 18, if the individual refuses to hear the church, then we treat such a one as a heathen.

 

If the Remarried person (before or after is saved) what verse in the bible indicates that they must ask for forgiveness from each and every church they will ever attend, or each and every christian, that they may come into contact with? I believe the bible says that we must ask God's forgiveness.
The problem is that divorce and remarriage, often times, are "visual" sins. The member that gossips, causes trouble, cheats on taxes, stold something at 10 yrs, old, is accepted, but the person with a child out of wedlock or divorced or remarried is not. Doesn't this put us accountable to every church and every christian for the rest of our lives? So what's being said, is that "if your sin shows, WE can't forgive it, you must only sin and hide it, for us to accept it! Some of us must hold to the Catholic doctrine, if we are now going to church to confess our sins. How I can I say I forgive you for something, if I throw it into your face, everytime we argue? If it is forgiven, then it should be over with.
There is no way to rectify a divorce, remarriage, child born out of wedlock. One cannot rewrite history!
Christine

 

Since you seem to be afraid to answer a simple yes or no, I will assume your answer is yes.

I hardly see the comparison between cutting off your arm and being divorced, but I'll humor you.

Ok, I'm divorced and remarried, so I am an adulterer. It has been indicated by other posters that I can be accepted as a member in their church.

Since I am considered an adulterer, and I shall continue in this "sin" as long as I am remarried, then I am willfully sinning, and should be chastised by the church. Since I will continue in my sin, I should be eventually turned out of the church, since I have no intention to stop "sinning" by continuing to be an adulterer.

Can you say "Catch-22"? </font>[/QUOTE]Just as I stated in my previous reply.

Just because you've run into that crowd that will rake you over the coals, or as you indicate they have by your replies, for being divorced, doesn't mean I am.

I gave you the analogy and you turn it around into a snare. All I've said is that a divorce has an effect on a person's life. Many will tell you that it's just like some one had cut off their arm.

I haven't said by your re-marriage that you are continuing in sin, if you haven't seen the need to ask forgiveness, then you are continuing in sin and need to repent.
Throwing away the second vow of marriage to try and re-instate the first is worse, because then you would have broken two sets of vows, live with breaking the first, get forgiveness for it, and go on with life!

You try to deny that a divorce has any effect on a person. You seem to look at it in this light: if you pollute the stream by dumping your washing machine water into it, there's nothing wrong with the water as long as you don't have to drink it. But what about the people downstream? They have no other source of water but the stream. So are you saying they must drink your dirty water just to survive?

You put your septic tank in your yard, and the leech field water pollutes your neighbor's well. Now who's at fault? Your neighbor for having a well? or maybe you, who put the septic tank in against the health code?

You say that YOU have to be accepted, but I say you have to accept the facts. If you dirty the water, then you should also drink of that water, else take preventative measures to avoid pollution.

I am reminded of my past often, if the devil isn't doing it, the Lord is. The devil does it to try and destroy me, the Lord does it to remind me where He brought me from. So when the devil reminds me of the "chicken scratch" he's sifted out of my life and throw's it back at me, I remind him that the Lord is using that to rebuke him, because that's not what I am, but what I used to be!

Divorce has it's OBVIOUS downside: BITTERNESS! So why does anyone try to justify bitter water? Should they not place the Cross into that bitter water and allow the Lord to make it sweet?

Wiz, you seem to feel I am condemning you, I'm not! I am condemning divorce though, because the Lord does! Divorce IS unforgiveness, unforgiveness is SIN! That is why re-marriage is adultry, it's trashing the marriage vows and trying to demand justification by man's laws. The Law NEVER justified anybody, but we are justified by the blood of the Lamb!

I've answered your question by allowing you the chance to reason it out for yourself. That would go on to say, you need to answer the question yourself, truthfully.

You say you are being condemned for being divorced and re-married, then you condemn others by calling them judgemental and unforgiving, I forgive you, but can you forgive your self?
Quit being the pot that calls the kettle black, ask forgiveness, put it all behind you, but don't forget to make every effort to clean up the water.

Some of my best friends are divorced and re-married, some several times over, it doesn't change our friendship, but it certainly is a life that has its' troubles.
You try being the child of a divorced parents, having to reprove your parents of the bitter comments they make about one another, if they only had Jesus as the center of their marriage! You know, that's the only reason people get divorced, Jesus is not the center of the marriage. So, yes, divorce is sin.

 

Don writes:
&gt;&gt;If it sounded like I was saying that you were
&gt;&gt;questioning scripture, it's because you seemed
&gt;&gt;to indicate that you weren't going to follow
&gt;&gt;Matthew 18. Perhaps because you were reading
&gt;&gt;a "forgiven sin" into the scenario that I
&gt;&gt;wasn't.

We are now on the same page, and in agreement.
It wasn't that I was "reading 'a forgiven sin' into the scenario," but rather pointing out what I felt was not even considered when the comments were made, seemingly implying some sort of blanket intolerance. I was trying to say that if a sin is repented, then the sinner should be forgiven.

 

I'm not trying to ensnare anyone. I asked a simple question, requiring a yes or no answer, and I get a 500 word essay full of analogies.

BTW, I never once said that divorce did not have an affect on anyone. I know first hand who it affects and how if affects them. So don't even go there.

Okay, you say I was not continuing in sin by being remarried, yet you also say that remarriage is adultery. Last I heard adultery is a sin. So, being remarried, I am an adulterer, and continuing in sin. Make up your mind.

Who are you to determine whether or not I have asked forgiveness?
The day I was saved, I asked forgiveness for my sins. Am I supposed to continually ask for forgiveness now? Each time I enter the church am I supposed to acknowledge my sin of adultery and ask forgiveness?

Is it any wonder people are confused about this issue? Is it any wonder people become disillusioned?

 

I'm not trying to ensnare anyone. I asked a simple question, requiring a yes or no answer, and I get a 500 word essay full of analogies.

BTW, I never once said that divorce did not have an affect on anyone. I know first hand who it affects and how if affects them. So don't even go there.

Okay, you say I was not continuing in sin by being remarried, yet you also say that remarriage is adultery. Last I heard adultery is a sin. So, being remarried, I am an adulterer, and continuing in sin. Make up your mind.

Who are you to determine whether or not I have asked forgiveness?
The day I was saved, I asked forgiveness for my sins. Am I supposed to continually ask for forgiveness now? Each time I enter the church am I supposed to acknowledge my sin of adultery and ask forgiveness?

Is it any wonder people are confused about this issue? Is it any wonder people become disillusioned? </font>[/QUOTE]You asked a question, I gave you an answer. Sorry it wasn't the answer you were looking for, maybe you should give me the answer you'd like for me to give the next time you ask. Until then,
I John 1:9.

 

Was the answer yes, or no? Am I an adulterer, or not?

 

Dear Brother Wiz,

I would not condemn you as an adulterer. If you had a desire to join our church, I'd praise God that He was adding to our church! I think if you were living with a woman, without marriage, that would constitute church discipline. If you are already remarried, it is sealed, the vows are made. It is God's place to speak to your heart, if indeed you sinned by remarrying. And He sure will!

I say again, God does allow some divorces Scripturally and therefore, remarriage is allowed, in those cases. There is no sin.

hsmom3

 

Let me make this as plain as I possibly can: What do you want me to answer, yes, or no? Otherwise ask Jesus, not Moses, who allowed divorce due to the hardness of a man's heart. Follow the example of Joseph, who in turn followed the example of the LORD in Jeremiah 3. The LORD doesn't have a hard heart, though Israel played the harlot, the LORD said "I am married unto you", not that He would go through with the divorce and marry another. Figure it out for yourself, ask the Lord for advice in the outcome, and don't follow the pernicious ways of men.

Wizo, you don't have to answer to men at the Judgement Seat, but you will answer to the Lord, so go ahead, figure it out from the Bible.

James 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Any man, sinner, saint, and if there is otherwise, is welcome in any church, if anyone is not welcome into any church then it's not a church it's a cult, but now membership in that church may be limited, but limited to re-married, divorced, single-parent, etc., or not.

We are all sinners, sinners are welcome in church

 

Wiz, I forgot one more thing. ANY sin done before you were saved is covered when you confess your sins and ask Jesus into your heart! That means divorce and remarriage, cheating, lies, WHATEVER! God forgives!! God may bring things to our hearts to make right with others (others, NOT the church), and you can do that AS HE LEADS. He certainly doesn't mean for the church elders to hold you to an inquisition! If that was the case, we'd ALL be under church discipline at the time of salvation. I can just see it now, I gentleman gets saved and then the church gives him a trial because his hair is too long. Nope, God works on us slowly and surely and changes us little by little and helps us grow. He does it!

 

So, am I to assume you don't know the answer?

But, is the remarried man (or woman) still in an adulterous relationship, even if they were saved after the divorce and remarriage?

 

I have tried very hard to get this message across. But efforts seem futile.

 

Oh, boy, did you ever hit the nail on the head, brother!!!!

 

Audzy, abuse is not given as a Biblical reason for divorce.

There are two biblical reasons for divorce: adultery and abandonment (biblical support for these has already been posted... no reason to double post info). Abuse falls under the category of abandonment.

 

1 John 1:5-7
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.


Again, I do not support or endorse divorce but believe in God's cleansing power and grace!

Diane

 

Oh, boy, did you ever hit the nail on the head, brother!!!! </font>[/QUOTE]O.k. Wiz, if he's hit the nail on the head why do you insist on setting up another nail to hit?

I've tried to reason with you and allow you to reason for yourself. Yes, re-marriage is adultry, Jesus said, he who marries her that is put away commiteth adultry. So then we are left with the ultimatum of asking forgiveness of committing adultry or failing to do so and continuing in that sin, knowingly

I'm afraid anyone who feels chastity between two married, one male and one female, people due to prior marriages fail to see the old vow broken and the new vow enstated. Sex is only allowed under the guise of holy matrimony, anything else is fornication, or adultry in the case of a married individual.

If the thief steals no more is he still a thief? Why no, not any longer, but he has that label. Is the re-married an adulterer? Why no, not any longer, as he has asked forgiveness and remains committed to that vow, he cannot re-instate the first vow w/o breaking the second, that would be two vows broken. Maintain the vow, Brother, keep Jesus as the centerpiece of the 2nd vow, and don't sin again!

If it will help everyone in this thread, let me ask if all of you will forgive Wizo and everyone else you know who has divorced and re-married, or not, or a thousand times? I do, even w/o them ever asking. Can you?

When you read this post, stop and pray for everybody you know, and everybody you don't know, we ALL need the prayer, and we all need the practice!

(I edited this portion due to the misunderstanding by Rom1:16, I hope everyone else knew what I was trying to say)

I've found that when I have offended and come asking forgiveness, I am usually receieved, but when I come justifying my sin by condemning others, I am usually reproved and shunned for doing so, deservingly I might add.

In His Holy Service,

Brother Ricky

[ May 27, 2003, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Istherenotacause ]