The "Message" Bible ???

Scott:

Jesus said that we are the light of the world - in other words, bearers of light. To condemn the Message is to condemn the Greek text.

S&T:

Please supply textual evidence for it in the passage I cited and also for the phrase "God-colors."

 

Let's take a look at some of the people who are heralding the message as a translation to be sought after:

BONO, lead singer of the music group U2 stated:

"There's a translation of Scriptures that this guy Eugene Peterson has undertaken. It has been a great strength to me. He's a poet and a scholar, and he's brought the text back to the tone in which the books were written."

[above quote is from the back sleeve of the message]

S&T:

It is my understanding that Bono was so impressed, that he even used some of the message paraphrase in the lyrics for one of his songs.

Let's take a look at some other things Bono has said:

Bono, a keen supporter of Jubilee 2000, will be travelling to Rome on September 23rd - 100 days to the millennium - along with Bob Geldof, Quincy Jones, Jeffrey Sachs, Professor of Economics at Harvard University, Randall Robinson, director of the US NGO, Trans-Africa, and Ann Pettifor, Director of Jubilee 2000. Bono said the delegation would be "seeking the blessing and wisdom" of the Pope, whom, he said, has called "frequently for the Jubilee year (2000) to be celebrated by the cancellation of the debts of the poorest countries".

And from another article:

Is The Pope meeting Bono or Bono meeting the Pope? It's debatable who the biggest saint is. On Thursday Sept 23, Pope John Paul II will be shooting the breeze with U2's Bono and a contingency of other musicians about World Debt. Quincy Jones, Bob Geldof and Youssor N'Dour will be accompanying Bono to Rome for the meeting with John Paul at the Vatican. The Dali Lama will also be in attendance.

S&T:

All we need now is a totally "all inclusive" bible. Compromise is so dis-heartening to watch, even if it is for the "common good ". All we need now are some signs and wonders.

 

Nav press sure doesn't have any problem using BONO as an endorsement to bolster sales.They use his endorsement on the sleeve of the message, as well as on their website. Since you mentioned Billy Grahm and Packer in an earlier post, we probably should discuss them also.

More on Bono:

From Christianity Today:

In the more purple of his prosaic moments, Bono claimed that the church:

Will be "made irrelevant" if it does not respond adequately to Africa's aids crisis.

Practices a "hierarchy of sin" that condemns people with aids as deserving the affliction because of sexual promiscuity.

Has "pervert[ed] the gospels and the Holy Scriptures since they were first written."

also:

Bono's full-throated judgments on the church prompt this question: Just how would he know? He has, after all, avoided the church since breaking with Shalom, a Watchman Nee-inspired group in Ireland, in the early 1980s.

This arm's-length experience of churches leaves Bono with a paper-thin ecclesiology that measures the church's mission (or its "relevance") almost exclusively in geopolitical terms. Bono seems unaware of the aids relief work that has been done in Africa for years, both by missionaries and by indigenous Christians (CT, Feb. 7, 2000). Never mind that many Christians were bringing relief to suffering Africans in the same decade that U2 poured millions into its bloated Zoo TV and PopMart tours (keeping the latter on the road cost $1.3 million a week). If Americans fail to persuade the Bush administration to increase foreign aid to the percentage of gross domestic product that Bono finds acceptable, then Bono finds the church guilty of standing by, like Germans watching Jews being hauled away to the death camps.

 

Scott stated:

So, by your reasoning, these three would be okay.

S&T:

No Scott, that would be purely by what you percieve as my reasoning. My choice was made by what I found in the translation itself. More on that shortly.

P.S.

You failed to mention his endorsement on their website.

 

Ransom stated:

Hilarious! Spirit and Truth seems to think anyone even remotely connected with The Message is somehow in on the conspiracy to subvert it.

S&T:

I guess you never heard of the special Billy Grahm edition of the message and his endorsement of it. As a matter of fact, one of my friends who was [past tense] using this translation exclusively, purchased it because of Grahms endorsement. It would be best if you did your research as to not embarrass yourself Ransom. In the future, I will consider anything presented that is scholarly. Please work on this.

P.S.

By the way Scott, the recommendation from Bono that appears on the message sleeve is a partial quote from an interview in Rolling Stone magazine:

www.rollingstone.com/features/featuregen.asp?pid=151


Favorite reading materials at the moment?


I'm reading The Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things by JT LeRoy. It's blowing my mind, just the directness of the prose. And, well, I don't want to come off wrong in this most unholy of wars, but there's a translation of Scriptures - the New Testament and the Books of Wisdom - that this guy Eugene Peterson has undertaken. It has been a great strength to me. He's a poet and a scholar, and he's brought the text back to the tone in which the books were written. A lot of the Gospels were written in common kind of marketspeak. They were not at all highfalutin like the King James Version of the Bible, from which all Goths get their inspiration. I love the sort of archery of that, but it's not representative of the original writings.

 

Scott stated earlier:

I'll side with people like Packer and Graham, as well as my pastors, when it comes to the Message.

S&T:

Is Billy Grahm a good man? It appears that he is. My issue is with theological soundness, and I have read material earlier similar to the excerpt below.

From an internet article:

Television Interview of Billy Graham by Robert Schuller, Hour Of Power, Part 1, an approximately 7 minute long Broadcast in Southern California on Saturday, May 31, 1997. The following is an exact transcript of an excerpt close to the end of the Broadcast.


SCHULLER: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?


GRAHAM: Well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by GOD. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.


SCHULLER: What, what I hear you saying that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and souls and life, even if they've been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you're saying?


GRAHAM: Yes, it is, because I believe that I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.


SCHULLER: I, I'm so thrilled to hear you say this. There's a wideness in God's mercy.


GRAHAM: There is. There definitely is.


***************

John 5:23 "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent Him."
 
John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
 
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

2 John 9-10 "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed."

The Television interview of Dr. Billy Graham by Dr. Schuller continued: Part II, which was broadcast on Sunday, June 8, 1997. The following is an accurate transcript of a segment.


SCHULLER: You knew ...Fulton Sheen. You knew these men. Your comments on both of these men [Fulton Sheen and Norman V. Peale].


GRAHAM: The primary way of communication is to live life, let people see that you're living what you proclaim....[comments on his friendship and conversations with Fulton Sheen] I lost a very dear friend, and since that time, the whole relationship between me and my work, and you and your work, and the Roman Catholic Church has changed. They open their arms to welcome us and we have the support of the Catholic Church almost everywhere we go. And I think that we must come to the place where we keep our eyes on Jesus Christ, not on what denomination or what church or what group we belong to."


To obtain the entire interview contact: Garden Grove Community Church, PO Box 100, Garden Grove, CA 92642 telephone 714--971-4000


In the above quote by Dr. Graham, he stated, "...He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world. They are members of the Body of Christ because they have been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are SAVED, AND THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE WITH US IN HEAVEN."


This statement directly agrees with the Roman Catholic Universal Catechism, page 224; par. 847: " Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience, those too may achieve eternal salvation. "


We know that God's Word never fails to provide the insight and guidance in all issues in our life. It is inerrant. It is truth. In saying that, we must then ask if what Dr. Graham stated above is in line with the Word of God?

Acts 4:12 " Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. "
 
John 14:6 " Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
 
2 Thessalonians 2:11-15 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto He called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

Someone also sent the following message and information to me.

"I too have seen Billy Graham's version of "universalism" - that people may have Jesus in their heart without being conscious of it... (From a transcript of an interview with David Frost, May 1997). "It took place the day before the interview with Robert Schuller - Here's one part I found to be particularly disturbing:"

FROST: "A quote: "If ever there was a woman called of God to proclaim the strip - Scriptures, my daughter Ann is one. She's one of the great Bible teachers among women today. I have a great appreciation for her and other women who have a gift of God." Does that mean that you are in favor of the ordination of women? "

REV. GRAHAM: "It's -- it would be according to the circle I was in because I'm -- I feel that I belong to all the churches. I'm equally at home in an Anglican or a Baptist church or a Brethren assembly or a Roman Catholic Church. And I would have to say that I would identify with the customs and the culture and the theology of that particular church."

2 Thessalonians 3:6 "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."

The article in it's entirety can be viewed here:

http://www.SeekGod.ca/deceptions.htm

 

Ransom stated:

I don't intend to lose sleep over what Billy Graham signs his name to. You can wring your hands over it if you want, but it makes no difference to me one way or the other.

and:

That is true. So what?

and also:

Who cares?

S&T:

I have found that people with relaxed standards, especially when it comes to handling the Word of God, rarely lose sleep over anything. I tend to believe that the Truth will set you free.

 

Your childish remarks are being ignored Ransom. Try presenting some scholarship instead of your attempt at creating fruitless discussion.