Is it ok for a Church to have female deacons?

Some things to note:

The word "deaconess" never appears in the Bible (KJV). I cannot speak to this concerning the "modern" versions. The word "deacon" is always used with "the office of." Phebe was referred to as a "servant" of the church.

1249. diakonos

diakonoV diakonos dee-ak'-on-os
probably from an obsolete diako (to run on
errands; compare 1377); an attendant, i.e.
(genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial
duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor
(technically, a deacon or deaconess):--deacon,
minister, servant.

Some here have "elected" to translate "servant" in Romans 16:1 as "deaconess."

I have elected to translate it as "probably an attendent or an errand runner," as Strong's also indicates. If it's confusing, Paul usually wrote it, but then he wrote most of the New Testament books.

I guess you all can tell I vote "no."

A friend - Jim

Originally posted by JIMNSC:
Some things to note:

The word "deaconess" never appears in the Bible (KJV). I cannot speak to this concerning the "modern" versions.

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For what it is worth, we refer to female ordained servants of the church as "deacons" -- not "deaconesses".

The word "deacon" is always used with "the office of."

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The expression "office of" is used with what is translated as "overseer" or "bishop" in modern translations. That office seems to be the office of pastor -- not deacon.

Phebe was referred to as a "servant" of the church.

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The same word, diakon-, is used of Phoebe. (I suppose you realize that the word deacon is an invention of the King James translators -- just like the word baptism. It is a transliteration of the Greek word and literally means servant.) Therefore Phoebe is just as much a servant of the church as those mentioned in 1 Timothy 3:8-13.

1249. diakonos

diakonoV diakonos dee-ak'-on-os
probably from an obsolete diako (to run on
errands; compare 1377); an attendant, i.e.
(genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial
duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor
(technically, a deacon or deaconess):--deacon,
minister, servant.

Some here have "elected" to translate "servant" in Romans 16:1 as "deaconess."

I have elected to translate it as "probably an attendent or an errand runner," as Strong's also indicates.

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It's the same really... The meaning of the word diakonos as a servant is not in dispute.

If it's confusing, Paul usually wrote it, but then he wrote most of the New Testament books.

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Yup. Even Peter had trouble with some of it.

I guess you all can tell I vote "no."

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That's unfortunate since I didn't see anything here to justify that position.

BaptistBeliever – My, are we testy this morning? Deacons/Deaconesses – have it your way – and who might this “we” be?

“That office “seems” to be the office of pastor -- not deacon.” Your entire argument comes across as being in “defense” of your church’s status quo. “Seems” to be? Are we guessing?

“Therefore Phoebe is just as much a servant of the church as those mentioned in 1 Timothy 3:8-13.”

No argument there – she just didn’t hold an “office” in the church. Paul thought a lot of her by his inclusion of her, as do I of my paper boy, but my liking him doesn’t elevate him to an “office” in the church.

From my experience, when you make a big issue of something that is referenced only once in the New Testament, you're stepping out onto slippery ground. (Uh-oh)That remark will surely ruffle some and they'll start looking.

“….is an invention of the King James translators” - Wow, are you saying they could have invented the entire Bible? If your poke at King James translators was aimed at me, you missed, as I am not a KJVO person. I just said I wasn’t familiar with the newer versions.

“That's unfortunate since I didn't see anything here to justify that position.”

Really didn’t take a position, as I presented no scripture. I was only adding to a list of things to be considered. I only expressed an opinion. Had I taken a position, I’d have presented you with scripture that proved the point, which some already have, that you apparently missed.

Please have a better day.

Your friend - Jim

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
...(I suppose you realize that the word deacon is an invention of the King James translators -- just like the word baptism. It is a transliteration of the Greek word and literally means servant.)...(

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You are correct that deacon (and baptism) is (are) a transliteration of the Greek word (words). It is not correct that they were "invented" by the KJV translators. Both words existed in the English language before the KJV.

Originally posted by JIMNSC:
BaptistBeliever - My, are we testy this morning? Deacons/Deaconesses - have it your way - and who might this “we” be?

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The we would by my local church who has female deacons. It also would be all the other churches I personally know that have female deacons.

”That office “seems” to be the office of pastor -- not deacon.” Your entire argument comes across as being in “defense” of your church’s status quo.

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If it comes across as that, I apologize.

“Seems” to be?

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Since the matter is in dispute between believers who respect the Bible but may not have looked at the biblical text with fresh eyes, I wanted to be a little more charitable than a ”Thus sayeth the Lord” type of comment. I will refrain from showing any humility henceforth.

Are we guessing?

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Not a guess, but I hadn’t looked up the passage in Greek this morning because I was in a hurry. As far as I can tell, the word diakon- is not used in conjunction with an “office” in the New Testament. (You can check for yourself at www.greekbible.com)

”Therefore Phoebe is just as much a servant of the church as those mentioned in 1 Timothy 3:8-13.”

No argument there - she just didn’t hold an “office” in the church. Paul thought a lot of her by his inclusion of her, as do I of my paper boy, but my liking him doesn’t elevate him to an “office” in the church.

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I’m not sure what you mean by “office” (especially since deacons don’t seem to be power brokers in the New Testament church). I think deacons should be officially recognized by the church (we follow the tradition of church ordination – the church ordains, not some sort of “Baptist priesthood” of ordained people) and both men and women serve in equal capacity serving the church and community.

From my experience, when you make a big issue of something that is referenced only once in the New Testament, you're stepping out onto slippery ground. (Uh-oh)That remark will surely ruffle some and they'll start looking.

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We have many more examples of women serving the church in the New Testament, along with Paul’s guidelines for female deacons in 1 Timothy 3:11. Phoebe is mentioned so much here because she is an undeniable example of a female deacon in the early church. Since Paul didn’t have a problem with her in that capacity, we shouldn’t try to twist his words to say that he forbid women from serving as deacons.

That’s hardly a slippery slope.

”...is an invention of the King James translators” - Wow, are you saying they could have invented the entire Bible?

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If your poke at King James translators was aimed at me, you missed, as I am not a KJVO person. I just said I wasn’t familiar with the newer versions.

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1.) It was not intended as a slight against the King James translators. They did an outstanding job of translating – especially in light of the political pressures they were under.
2.) I overstated my position. As rlvaughn correctly points out, the words deacon and baptism were in use before the King James translation. My intent was to point out that the King James translators transliterated the Greek words instead of translating them literally as “servant” and “dipping/immersion”. As interpreters of scripture, we should pay more attention to the actual Greek words instead of the traditions we have built around the transliterations. Paul wrote “servant” in his letter. We should always read “deacon” as “servant” in our interpretation.

Please have a better day.

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I didn’t mean to make you bust out cryin’.

Just as confirmation, lest anyone just take my word, I found something online where my statement can be checked out about KJV translators not creating such words as baptism, deacon, etc.

1599 Geneva Bible.

BB's point still stands about transliteration, although I think it incorrect to say the KJV translators transliterated the words. They had already been transliterated into the English language many years before. Just a technicality.

Originally posted by rlvaughn:
[QB]Just as confirmation, lest anyone just take my word, I found something online where my statement can be checked out about KJV translators not creating such words as baptism, deacon, etc.

1599 Geneva Bible.[QB]

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Thanks for the info. I knew that the words were transliterated within the last 500 years, but I didn't know exactly where.

Thanks!

NO!

No girly deacons.

Sister in Christ,
Heidi

No.

It's a local church matter.

Originally posted by Me2:
How many times in life do men have to be reminded to take responsibility...
Well heres one more time.

Women were CREATED BY GOD to follow...not lead.

So I guess your answer from a real man...would be no women deacons

1 Tim 2:14...Eve was deceived..not Adam...ie, Adam was the worlds first woose.
He let her decide,... for him.....

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Amen brother

Is anyone able to show from scripture that a "diakon-" is a leadership position, rather than a servant position? No? Oh.

Who has the greater authority, a servant or the person they are serving?

ABSOLUTELY!

1 cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Is women deacons..... being observed as the "head" over the men in the assembly.?

1 cor 11:7 For man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

Is the woman deacon in this senerio being glorified as the "image and glory of the man" inside
the churches of God ? ....putting God in "second place" of worship...

1 cor 11:8-10 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. for this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.......

The angels being servants to God...The woman being servants to man...

In the churches we understand that there are roles suited for women and men...ie, teachers and assistants to its members which are worthy of their individual praises for their individual works.
all appropriately rewarded for due services....But pastors and deacons serve as organizers and administrators of such teachers and people that assist. Occupying these titles also includes authority over others...both men and women

ie, the secretary has no authority, but is an assistant to the pastor.
the woman teacher over the young women is seen as the pastor is the head over the woman teacher....in turn teaching other women.

Tit 2:3-5 The aged women likewise, that they be in behavior as becometh holiness., not false accusers, not given much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

but there are no female teachers over young men...
Or the word of God would appear to be confusing ...

The "body" would be seen as controlling or expressing authority over the "head".

Great point ME2, about the body controling the head.

I cannot see in the bible that the deacon is the "Organiser and Administrator" with authority over others. A deacon serves, those roles are within the Eldership.

The problem with many churches is that they have made the position of Deacon a leadership position which is not scriptural.

But pastors and deacons serve as organizers and administrators of such teachers and people that assist.

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No, it is pastors and ELDERS that serve as administrators. Elders and pastors teach and oversee. Deacons don't (or at least they shouldn't).

Deacons do more practical things under the oversight of the elders and pastors.

In many churches the deacons are the elders..

Many pastors drift too much and dont last long.
They provide a centralized figure to call a "head" and it usually is in name only.
Many are simply hired to visit the homeless, sick, and bereaved. perform weddings, funerals..
and had pretyped sermons...

The real authority was in the roles of the deacon and they voted democratically how
The church business was run.
...and what kind of preacher was allowed to speak before their people.

My grandad was a deacon for at least 70+ years in a southern baptist church.

Me2

[ January 01, 2003, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Me2 ]

In many churches the deacons are the elders..

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But they shouldn't be, if you are following the biblical model. The ruling men should be called elders. And the deacons should serve under their authority.