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Is it ok for a Church to have female deacons?
- Thread starter Joseph_Botwinick
- Start date
Obviously, things are not the same in other places... including the New Testament.
[ December 30, 2002, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: Baptist Believer ]
Deacon, The office, NO
deaconess, servant, YES
I can preside without being the President. I can teach without being the Teacher. A woman can serve without being a Deacon.
I Tim 3:12 could not be clearer.
Rom 16:1 She is a deaconess of the church not a Deacon of the church. There is no office of Deaconess.
BabtistBeliever
"Women [deacons] must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips,
but temperate, faithful in all things." (1 Timothy 3:11 NASB)
If you are going to quote someone, please, quote them accurately. The NASB says: "Women must likewise be dignified..."There is a superscript 1 indicating a note before the word Women. The note says, "I.e. either deacons' wives or deaconesses." You gave the impression that it said, "deacons"
BrianT
" Yes, women can be deasons. Rom 16:1 proves this. The problem is that
today, the term "deacon" is misused and misunderstood by most."
First the good news, I agree that the term is misused and misunderstood by most, but, that is another discussion which I am sure we will get around to sometime. Now the bad news, Rom 16:1 no more 'proves" it than most verses taken out of context. You want to modify (change the gender of) an entire passage (I Tim 3) directly dealing with the subjust at hand and insist on taking a single verse back to the original, which is not even taling about the subject and say this proves your point
This is fun, it makes me think about why I believe what I believe and occassionaly even learn something. Just not on this thread.
deaconess, servant, YES
I can preside without being the President. I can teach without being the Teacher. A woman can serve without being a Deacon.
I Tim 3:12 could not be clearer.
Rom 16:1 She is a deaconess of the church not a Deacon of the church. There is no office of Deaconess.
BabtistBeliever
"Women [deacons] must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips,
but temperate, faithful in all things." (1 Timothy 3:11 NASB)
If you are going to quote someone, please, quote them accurately. The NASB says: "Women must likewise be dignified..."There is a superscript 1 indicating a note before the word Women. The note says, "I.e. either deacons' wives or deaconesses." You gave the impression that it said, "deacons"
BrianT
" Yes, women can be deasons. Rom 16:1 proves this. The problem is that
today, the term "deacon" is misused and misunderstood by most."
First the good news, I agree that the term is misused and misunderstood by most, but, that is another discussion which I am sure we will get around to sometime. Now the bad news, Rom 16:1 no more 'proves" it than most verses taken out of context. You want to modify (change the gender of) an entire passage (I Tim 3) directly dealing with the subjust at hand and insist on taking a single verse back to the original, which is not even taling about the subject and say this proves your point
This is fun, it makes me think about why I believe what I believe and occassionaly even learn something. Just not on this thread.
John Miller
New Member
BrianT, are you saying that all servants are
deacons?
What about 1 Timothy 2:12?
So a woman can be a deacon but not have authority over a man, that is not a deacon?
deacons?
What about 1 Timothy 2:12?
So a woman can be a deacon but not have authority over a man, that is not a deacon?
Sorry. I pulled that quote online from Bible Gateway and didn't get the verses around it. I added the bracketed word "deacon" to help clarify the context. The meaning is the same.
Geez...I feel the pressure of progesterone on my keyboard.....(hehe)
Seriously..Paul said what he said..and God didnt make him erase it. So I can only imagine that It was important.
That was then, and This is now. So if you want women deacons...you choose.
Paul gave you his opinion..I gave you mine.
Me2
Seriously..Paul said what he said..and God didnt make him erase it. So I can only imagine that It was important.
That was then, and This is now. So if you want women deacons...you choose.
Paul gave you his opinion..I gave you mine.
Me2
I see no distinction. The "office" of deacon is not an authoritative one in scripture, but a serving one.
How is it taken out of context?
Not at all. I've already discussed 1 Tim 3, and where it says "Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife", it uses the *masculine* form, "diakonoi". Thus, the argument that women can't be deacons because they can't be a husband goes away, because the verse is specifically talking about males. I have changed no gender, I have simply pointed it out.
I'm not saying all servants are deacons, but I *am* saying all "deacons" are servants (at least in scripture) - that is what "deacon" ("diakon-") means. 1 Tim 2:12 is about authority, not servitude, so it doesn't even apply to the subject of deacons.
Deacons *serve* the church, not rule over it. It is not about authority at all.
Jeff Weaver
New Member
Well, I dont know if I should get into this kettle of fish or not, but I will with trepidation.
My great-grandfather and great-grandmother were considered deacon and deaconess in the Old Regular Baptist Church. For those of you who don't know, Old Regulars are extremely conservative. Grandpa's role was to serve the men, grandma's to serve the women. If an issue of discipline came up, he went to the men, she went to the women.
Now, I find very few of the deacons I know in any type of church that fulfil the role that I believe the scriptures outline for them. This includes Primitive Baptists - my own group of folks. Most seem bent on ruling over everything and everyone. Perhaps it is the culture of where I am, but that's my anecdoctal evidence.
That said, my first cousin's son was a deacon in a Southern Baptist church, and he went around to the church members to see if they needed anything - help doing things, money, companionship, etc. He was a good deacon, but God saw fit to call him in September. He suffered from lukemia for many years, and still checked on folks to see if they were alright, when truth be known he was sicker than those he was checking about. He studied his Bible, knew what is said (we didnt always agree on its interpretation), but he was what a deacon should be.
If deacons and churches fulfilled proper roles as scripturally outlined, I would have no problem with women deaconesses. I know most of my Primitive Baptist brethren will disagree on this point, but it is what I personally believe on the issue.
Jeff.
My great-grandfather and great-grandmother were considered deacon and deaconess in the Old Regular Baptist Church. For those of you who don't know, Old Regulars are extremely conservative. Grandpa's role was to serve the men, grandma's to serve the women. If an issue of discipline came up, he went to the men, she went to the women.
Now, I find very few of the deacons I know in any type of church that fulfil the role that I believe the scriptures outline for them. This includes Primitive Baptists - my own group of folks. Most seem bent on ruling over everything and everyone. Perhaps it is the culture of where I am, but that's my anecdoctal evidence.
That said, my first cousin's son was a deacon in a Southern Baptist church, and he went around to the church members to see if they needed anything - help doing things, money, companionship, etc. He was a good deacon, but God saw fit to call him in September. He suffered from lukemia for many years, and still checked on folks to see if they were alright, when truth be known he was sicker than those he was checking about. He studied his Bible, knew what is said (we didnt always agree on its interpretation), but he was what a deacon should be.
If deacons and churches fulfilled proper roles as scripturally outlined, I would have no problem with women deaconesses. I know most of my Primitive Baptist brethren will disagree on this point, but it is what I personally believe on the issue.
Jeff.
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
That's Hillarious!!!!!!!!!!
Here are the things the "Deacons" did in the only church I went to that actually used the office.
Set up the Chairs,
collected and counted the offering,
Prepared the Communion Table,
Patrolled the Car Park,
Filled the Baptismal Tank,
Opened and locked the building,
kept the pulpit glass filled with water,
There is no reason the Female diakona cannot do any of these.
Set up the Chairs,
collected and counted the offering,
Prepared the Communion Table,
Patrolled the Car Park,
Filled the Baptismal Tank,
Opened and locked the building,
kept the pulpit glass filled with water,
There is no reason the Female diakona cannot do any of these.
Ew!Originally posted by post-it:
I know some deacons who wouldn't wash anybody's feet much less their own.
Deacons in our church help with hospital visitation, benevolence ministries, assist the various missions our church sponsors and supports with practical services.
Our deacons also check in on our "shut-in" members every few days and take them shopping, visit with them and help them with house cleaning etc.
Deacons are truly servants in the church family and they organize these good works so that no needy person gets lost in the shuffle.
Our deacons also check in on our "shut-in" members every few days and take them shopping, visit with them and help them with house cleaning etc.
Deacons are truly servants in the church family and they organize these good works so that no needy person gets lost in the shuffle.
Going back into early church history, after the communion service, the Deacon had the role of taking the left over bread and wine to the sick in the flock. And praying for them to be restored to health. Again another job a female diakona in the modern church would be well suited to.
That's a good point. A woman washed his feet, and he afterwards washed the feet of his closest friends.
As far as "authority" if we're to follow Jesus' example, no matter what you are, pastor, deacon, elder, etc, you should be a servant first and foremost, as Jesus was. He even gave up his role as teacher for one of friend "I no longer call you followers, but friends".
Headcoveredlady
New Member
I am very curious as to why there are some men who are posting in this thread who have no problem with women being deacons. Why would you not encourage a woman to follow Titus 2:3-5? Why would you want a woman to rule over you and teach you?
Paul of Eugene
New Member
If someone knows something I need to know, I'm willing to learn it from them be they man or woman! What could possibly be wrong with that?
Every single person (I think) who has said women can be deacons has said that the role of a deacon in NT times did not include teaching or ruling over anyone. Those were the roles of pastors or elders. Deacons took care of the sick, delivered goods to the needy, served tables at church dinners, etc. All roles, BTW, that in even the most conservative Baptist churches are mostly filled by women, I would guess. They do the job of a deacon, but just don't get to be called one.
[ December 31, 2002, 01:31 AM: Message edited by: russell55 ]